Originally posted by Meowhead

Originally posted by gieger808

Fair enough.

I think I get what eveyone is saying. Most of those interested in GW2 aren't looking for a game for the long haul. They are happy with a pickup-n-play mmo. A casual experience. I can wrap my mind around that. Maybe it will be a good game until something more substantial (by my criteria) comes along.

 Obviously not familiar with the grinds in GW1.

There will be some crazy life-warping godawful years-consuming grinds, but they're cosmetic.

... or are you saying it's not how hard you work, it's how you're rewarded that determines if you're casual or hardcore, and that hardcores refuse to do anything without power progression? :)

So far, I don't think GW2 has signs of having any real grinds, unless one gets so focused on goals like "knowing all crafting recipes" that they don't enjoy getting each one.  Or getting all cosmetic sets to the point of not enjoying the process either.

Certainly, everything that can be done, it would seem that you can do that and enjoy it each step of the way.  Dungeons for cosmetic sets?  They have multiple paths so it takes a lot longer to get old (and are challenging).

GW1 was a LOT different here, with a ton of grinds and repetition.  I'm hopefuly that GW2 will avoid most of that -- probably can't avoid it all, however.  But avoiding grinds doesn't mean that it avoids having stuff to do.

Originally posted by Drachasor

So far, I don't think GW2 has signs of having any real grinds, unless one gets so focused on goals like "knowing all crafting recipes" that they don't enjoy getting each one.  Or getting all cosmetic sets to the point of not enjoying the process either.

Certainly, everything that can be done, it would seem that you can do that and enjoy it each step of the way.  Dungeons for cosmetic sets?  They have multiple paths so it takes a lot longer to get old (and are challenging).

GW1 was a LOT different here, with a ton of grinds and repetition.  I'm hopefuly that GW2 will avoid most of that -- probably can't avoid it all, however.  But avoiding grinds doesn't mean that it avoids having stuff to do.

 100%ing all the achievements.

I'm sorry, any time you have to kill 100,000 of like every single type of lifeform on the planet, that's a grind. xD

These are things you won't conceivably do in a normal timespan unless you sit down and REALLY work at doing them.

Some people might be doing that for fun, and you could eventually get them all on accident, but I'd say most people who acheive things like that are sitting down and grinding. :)

Some things seem like they could be super time consuming, like making Legendary Weapons....

Which if you're doing it just for the item, rather than because you're having fun, will be a grind for a carrot.

Whether or not somebody is enjoying it or grinding it out though, my whole point was just that there appear to be some fairly heftily long term goals that rival current MMORPGs, just they're not tied to power progression.

Originally posted by Drachasor

So far, I don't think GW2 has signs of having any real grinds, unless one gets so focused on goals like "knowing all crafting recipes" that they don't enjoy getting each one.  Or getting all cosmetic sets to the point of not enjoying the process either.

Certainly, everything that can be done, it would seem that you can do that and enjoy it each step of the way.  Dungeons for cosmetic sets?  They have multiple paths so it takes a lot longer to get old (and are challenging).

GW1 was a LOT different here, with a ton of grinds and repetition.  I'm hopefuly that GW2 will avoid most of that -- probably can't avoid it all, however.  But avoiding grinds doesn't mean that it avoids having stuff to do.

Having looked over the Achievements list in GW2... you are at least partially mistaken.

The difference is ANet puts those grinds in for Titles rather than more powerful gear, which is something at least most of us are thankful for >.>

EDIT: ninja'ed by the the Meow once again

This article brings up some of my concerns.

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/guild-wars-2/1225830p1.html

Originally posted by gieger808

This article brings up some of my concerns.

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/guild-wars-2/1225830p1.html

and this one alleviates my concerns

http://www.arena.net/blog/is-it-fun-colin-johanson-on-how-arenanet-measures-success

but honestly its $60 and no monthly sub... not really a huge commitment IMHO.. bet you will get your moneys worth in just PVP or PVE alone

Originally posted by gieger808

This article brings up some of my concerns.

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/guild-wars-2/1225830p1.html

This thread addresses that here:

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/361470/page/1

Originally posted by evolver1972

Originally posted by gieger808

This article brings up some of my concerns.

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/guild-wars-2/1225830p1.html

This thread addresses that here:

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/361470/page/1

Thanks. Though I wish the respones were more productive. Mostly just pvp'ers. And they always put on blinders to any other aspect of the game. Anything NOT pvp is a waste of time. Not helpful.

Originally posted by Meowhead

Originally posted by Drachasor

So far, I don't think GW2 has signs of having any real grinds, unless one gets so focused on goals like "knowing all crafting recipes" that they don't enjoy getting each one.  Or getting all cosmetic sets to the point of not enjoying the process either.

Certainly, everything that can be done, it would seem that you can do that and enjoy it each step of the way.  Dungeons for cosmetic sets?  They have multiple paths so it takes a lot longer to get old (and are challenging).

GW1 was a LOT different here, with a ton of grinds and repetition.  I'm hopefuly that GW2 will avoid most of that -- probably can't avoid it all, however.  But avoiding grinds doesn't mean that it avoids having stuff to do.

 100%ing all the achievements.

I'm sorry, any time you have to kill 100,000 of like every single type of lifeform on the planet, that's a grind. xD

These are things you won't conceivably do in a normal timespan unless you sit down and REALLY work at doing them.

Some people might be doing that for fun, and you could eventually get them all on accident, but I'd say most people who acheive things like that are sitting down and grinding. :)

Some things seem like they could be super time consuming, like making Legendary Weapons....

Which if you're doing it just for the item, rather than because you're having fun, will be a grind for a carrot.

Whether or not somebody is enjoying it or grinding it out though, my whole point was just that there appear to be some fairly heftily long term goals that rival current MMORPGs, just they're not tied to power progression.

Looking at the Wiki, I see the kills as capping at 1000.  Is that wrong?  1000 is something that will easily happen through normal play with basically no effort.

Eh, there has to be more ranks than just up to 1k, right?  Hmm, maybe the wiki isn't filled out right.

I'm not sure on the requirements for legendary weapons as the wiki is pretty vague.  With a lot of that stuff, I think there are ways you could do it that are grindy, sure.  But if you actually enjoy most of the game, then a lot of it won't be grindy given that there's a good amount of combat depth.

Originally posted by gieger808

Originally posted by evolver1972

Originally posted by gieger808

This article brings up some of my concerns.

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/guild-wars-2/1225830p1.html

This thread addresses that here:

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/361470/page/1

Thanks. Though I wish the respones were more productive. Mostly just pvp'ers. And they always put on blinders to any other aspect of the game. Anything NOT pvp is a waste of time. Not helpful.

Again, there have been plenty of people talking about non-pvp things in this thread.  You seem to ignore it all.

Originally posted by Stx11

Originally posted by Drachasor

So far, I don't think GW2 has signs of having any real grinds, unless one gets so focused on goals like "knowing all crafting recipes" that they don't enjoy getting each one.  Or getting all cosmetic sets to the point of not enjoying the process either.

Certainly, everything that can be done, it would seem that you can do that and enjoy it each step of the way.  Dungeons for cosmetic sets?  They have multiple paths so it takes a lot longer to get old (and are challenging).

GW1 was a LOT different here, with a ton of grinds and repetition.  I'm hopefuly that GW2 will avoid most of that -- probably can't avoid it all, however.  But avoiding grinds doesn't mean that it avoids having stuff to do.

Having looked over the Achievements list in GW2... you are at least partially mistaken.

The difference is ANet puts those grinds in for Titles rather than more powerful gear, which is something at least most of us are thankful for >.>

EDIT: ninja'ed by the the Meow once again

Maybe I'm just not seeing it, but I don't see the grind in the titles listed.  Not at all.  Going off the wiki here.

Originally posted by Drachasor

Originally posted by gieger808

Originally posted by evolver1972

Originally posted by gieger808

This article brings up some of my concerns.

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/guild-wars-2/1225830p1.html

This thread addresses that here:

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/361470/page/1

Thanks. Though I wish the respones were more productive. Mostly just pvp'ers. And they always put on blinders to any other aspect of the game. Anything NOT pvp is a waste of time. Not helpful.

Again, there have been plenty of people talking about non-pvp things in this thread.  You seem to ignore it all.

No, I meant the thread about the article.

There are lots of useful information being posted in THIS thread. I am grateful.

Originally posted by gieger808

Originally posted by evolver1972

Originally posted by gieger808

This article brings up some of my concerns.

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/guild-wars-2/1225830p1.html

This thread addresses that here:

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/361470/page/1

Thanks. Though I wish the respones were more productive. Mostly just pvp'ers. And they always put on blinders to any other aspect of the game. Anything NOT pvp is a waste of time. Not helpful.

You obviously didn't read most of the responses on that thread.  I counted a grand total of ONE post strictly about PvP.  Other posts related to the supposed lack of trinity (there is one, it's just not a static one), the dodge mechanic and the inter-player communication in the game (or percieved lack of it).

So, if that thread wasn't helpful it was because you deliberately decided it wouldn't be before you actually read through it.

Originally posted by gieger808

I need grinds. I need meaningful things to work for after level cap. I worry that GW2 doesn't have that.

If GW2 claims to have gotten rid of the gear/item grind, it needs to replace it with something. The "carrot on a stick" concept exists for a reason. It's what keep people playing once the mechanics of the game get old.

After the shine of the combat system wears off, there isn't much left to the game.

I need more character development than just simple cosmetics and pets.

 

Do I have the wrong impression of GW2? Are my expectaions too high for GW2? Am I expecting a action MMO to be more like a MMORPG?

 

I WANT to like GW2. Help me understand if I'm wrong. I need a mmo home! lol

If you NEED grinds, get all dungeon armor an weapons. That should hold you over.

Originally posted by Drachasor

Looking at the Wiki, I see the kills as capping at 1000.  Is that wrong?  1000 is something that will easily happen through normal play with basically no effort.

Eh, there has to be more ranks than just up to 1k, right?  Hmm, maybe the wiki isn't filled out right.

I'm not sure on the requirements for legendary weapons as the wiki is pretty vague.  With a lot of that stuff, I think there are ways you could do it that are grindy, sure.  But if you actually enjoy most of the game, then a lot of it won't be grindy given that there's a good amount of combat depth.

I'm pretty sure it's wrong. I think I got to Rank 2 on a couple of them over the course of the BWEs.

If it's like GW1 there will be 10 Ranks each progressively longer...

...

...Challenge Accepted

Originally posted by Drachasor

Looking at the Wiki, I see the kills as capping at 1000.  Is that wrong?  1000 is something that will easily happen through normal play with basically no effort.

Eh, there has to be more ranks than just up to 1k, right?  Hmm, maybe the wiki isn't filled out right.

I'm not sure on the requirements for legendary weapons as the wiki is pretty vague.  With a lot of that stuff, I think there are ways you could do it that are grindy, sure.  But if you actually enjoy most of the game, then a lot of it won't be grindy given that there's a good amount of combat depth.

 Hmmmm.  I could have sworn it goes past 1k.  I remember seeing a patch notes with numbers that made me blanch.  I think that was the patch talking about the title for player kills/dolyak kills in PvP, now that I think about it.  I'm also pretty sure things will go past rank 3, but I could be wrong!

For another look at a longeterm title grind that I know they have, look at the highest tier of PvP they've shown (9 out of 12), last time I saw it it was 7,500,000 glory to hit that tier.

At 50 glory or so a match, that might take a couple games (Maybe even as many as 6)

My point isn't really pertaining to the fun or lack of fun while playing long term... that's up to each individual person, really.

... let's ignore the word 'grind' for a moment and concentrate just on the fact there's definitely some extremely long term goals.

Even just getting a full set of legendary weapons for your character, for example.... at 200 skill points each, that's 90 minutes per skill point so.... 300 hours per legendary weapon, minimum (Or so).  The extra-legendary (Or whatever you want to call it) greatsword is TWO legendary weapons (Day blade and night blade), that you put together.  That's a minimum of  600 hours of extra play just to get a single weapon.

There are most certainly some extremely long term PvE goals out there. :)  Ones that are explicitly in the game, rather than made up.  Ones that'll make somebody stand out head and shoulders above other people, at least for a while.

I know it'll definitely be a 'holy shit' moment the first time I see somebody strolling around with that greatsword.

... and that's a totally PvE thing, debunking the whole 'Long term goals are only PvP" (Though PvP certainly has some amazingly hardcore goals to shoot for as well)

Originally posted by RoyalPhunk
Is this one of those new edgy positive trolls I have been hearing so much about?

It's what's hot right now

Originally posted by gieger808

I need grinds. I need meaningful things to work for after level cap. I worry that GW2 doesn't have that.

If GW2 claims to have gotten rid of the gear/item grind, it needs to replace it with something. The "carrot on a stick" concept exists for a reason. It's what keep people playing once the mechanics of the game get old.

After the shine of the combat system wears off, there isn't much left to the game.

I need more character development than just simple cosmetics and pets.

 

Do I have the wrong impression of GW2? Are my expectaions too high for GW2? Am I expecting a action MMO to be more like a MMORPG?

 

I WANT to like GW2. Help me understand if I'm wrong. I need a mmo home! lol

Go grind out making a Legendary weapon and tell me this isnt enough of a grind?