Originally posted by Foomerang

 

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I can see where you are coming from. However, through mass media and advertising, we have become oversexed to the point that it is completely saturated in everything around us. It is literally in everything. We as a society, are sex obsessed through outside influence. Death and sex dominate the majority of what we see and hear all around us. It comes in waves throughout human history, eras of extreme indulgence in primal fears and desires.

anyway, see you tomorrow. have fun in skyrim! :)

I can understand how some view our society as "oversexualized" but this is just a point of view.

I'm sure there must be some communities that view any showing of skin to be over the top.

And some that have no problems with people being completley naked. This is just a matter of degrees.

I prefer a more sexualize society but I suppose that this is my taste. I have no problems with it other than the the participants in any images.or anything that depicts people in a sexualized way, be in agreement with how they are being depicted.

And sure, mass media does take advantage of our willingness to partake in a sort of "public sexuality" but that's not an issue for me.

Just because they slap some images no the side of a billboard doesn't mean I'm going to buy the product. Doesn't mean anyone will buy the product. If it was that easy then I'd just hire a photographer and sell pet rocks with sexy images on the box.

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Originally posted by Sovrath

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Originally posted by Foomerang  

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I can see where you are coming from. However, through mass media and advertising, we have become oversexed to the point that it is completely saturated in everything around us. It is literally in everything. We as a society, are sex obsessed through outside influence. Death and sex dominate the majority of what we see and hear all around us. It comes in waves throughout human history, eras of extreme indulgence in primal fears and desires. anyway, see you tomorrow. have fun in skyrim! :)

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I can understand how some view our society as "oversexualized" but this is just a point of view.

I'm sure there must be some communities that view any showing of skin to be over the top.

And some that have no problems with people being completley naked. This is just a matter of degrees.

I prefer a more sexualize society but I suppose that this is my taste. I have no problems with it other than the the participants in any images.or anything that depicts people in a sexualized way, be in agreement with how they are being depicted.

And sure, mass media does take advantage of our willingness to partake in a sort of "public sexuality" but that's not an issue for me.

Just because they slap some images no the side of a billboard doesn't mean I'm going to buy the product. Doesn't mean anyone will buy the product. If it was that easy then I'd just hire a photographer and sell pet rocks with sexy images on the box.

 

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In American culture, we are at a high saturation level. Whether you or I buy into it is beside the point. Because its still there, because we are hard wired to want it. It will always be offered up to us because advertisers know it triggers an instinct. In fact, the average American is exposed to over 3000 advertisements in various forms daily. In Miley Cyrus' autobiographical book, she talks about being oversexed to appeal to a wider audience. So much so that she accepted that as her identity. She defined herself through the perception she was portraying. Made up by ad agencies to sell more records. Its messed up. We see so much of it that it just becomes normalized. Whether we buy into it or not, it forces its way into our lives and becomes our new reality.

Personally, I think people need to pick their battles a little more wisely. If you are arguing over sexualization in video games, may I also point out the following:

• I am allowed to commit mass extinction (kill 10 rats) while playing almost any MMORPG.
• I am allowed to fight my enemies, to the death, in arena-style combat for gold and experience points.
• I can use knives, guns, magic and so in whatever way I see fit.
• I am allowed to practice the dark arts and worship the dead.
• I can perform finishing moves on my opponents by removing their limbs or performing other violent acts.
• I can loot corpses and steal resources.
• I can ruin the entire server's economy if I try hard enough.
• I can enslave pets to make them do what I want.

The only other thing I have to say about this thread is.....
Dam! She's HOT!

Originally posted by Foomerang

 

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In American culture, we are at a high saturation level. Whether you or I buy into it is beside the point. Because its still there, because we are hard wired to want it. It will always be offered up to us because advertisers know it triggers an instinct. In fact, the average American is exposed to over 3000 advertisements in various forms daily. In Miley Cyrus' autobiographical book, she talks about being oversexed to appeal to a wider audience. So much so that she accepted that as her identity. She defined herself through the perception she was portraying. Made up by ad agencies to sell more records. Its messed up. We see so much of it that it just becomes normalized. Whether we buy into it or not, it forces its way into our lives and becomes our new reality.

But i think that points to my argument.

Just because there is a group of people who feel pressured into being somethign they dont' want to be doesnt' mean that everyone is like this.

As for the case of Miss Cyrus, where were the parents? Obviously there is blame to be laid there. And at some point she needs to become an adult and take responsibility for her life.

On the other side of the coin, there are people who indulge in more "sexy" pursuits who do it because it's fun and because they want to do it.

An example would be here in Cambridge, MA. We have something every year called "The Slut Cracker". It's essentailly "The Nutrcracker" on burlesque.

The performers aren't force to do it, they don't "make bank" but they love doing it and they have a blast. It's always sold out yet no one is making a kiling on this thing.

We also have a group called "The Gold Dust Orphans" which is a group of actors who take vintage movies or plays and rewrite them (and even write original material) so they fit into a sort of comedic, Cross Dressing production. Always sold out but they make enough money to cover costs. lots of sexual references on stage and even a bit of nudity.

High powered ad agencies aren't driving this stuff, it's people who are wired to enjoy this type of thing just indulging themselves and having fun.

NOT for everyone but again, that's my argument: there are people who want and enjoy this stuff and don't feel like it's some sort of cohersion or an allowance of an male dominated society or corporate culture.

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Originally posted by NaughtyP
Personally, I think people need to pick their battles a little more wisely. If you are arguing over sexualization in video games, may I also point out the following:

• I am allowed to commit mass extinction (kill 10 rats) while playing almost any MMORPG.
• I am allowed to fight my enemies, to the death, in arena-style combat for gold and experience points.
• I can use knives, guns, magic and so in whatever way I see fit.
• I am allowed to practice the dark arts and worship the dead. I can perform finishing moves on my opponents by removing their limbs or performing other violent acts. I can loot corpses and steal resources. I can ruin the entire server's economy if I try hard enough. I can enslave pets to make them do what I want.

I can do many of these things in many different games. I find many of these things more offensive than cleavage. Sorry.

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This isn't about video game content. Its about using sex to sell products and how that dehumanizes people.

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Originally posted by Sovrath

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Originally posted by Foomerang  

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In American culture, we are at a high saturation level. Whether you or I buy into it is beside the point. Because its still there, because we are hard wired to want it. It will always be offered up to us because advertisers know it triggers an instinct. In fact, the average American is exposed to over 3000 advertisements in various forms daily. In Miley Cyrus' autobiographical book, she talks about being oversexed to appeal to a wider audience. So much so that she accepted that as her identity. She defined herself through the perception she was portraying. Made up by ad agencies to sell more records. Its messed up. We see so much of it that it just becomes normalized. Whether we buy into it or not, it forces its way into our lives and becomes our new reality.

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But i think that points to my argument.

Just because there is a group of people who feel pressured into being somethign they dont' want to be doesnt' mean that everyone is like this.

As for the case of Miss Cyrus, where were the parents? Obviously there is blame to be laid there. And at some point she needs to become an adult and take responsibility for her life.

On the other side of the coin, there are people who indulge in more "sexy" pursuits who do it because it's fun and because they want to do it.

An example would be here in Cambridge, MA. We have something every year called "The Slut Cracker". It's essentailly "The Nutrcracker" on burlesque.

The performers aren't force to do it, they don't "make bank" but they love doing it and they have a blast. It's always sold out yet no one is making a kiling on this thing.

We also have a group called "The Gold Dust Orphans" which is a group of actors who take vintage movies or plays and rewrite them (and even write original material) so they fit into a sort of comedic, Cross Dressing production. Always sold out but they make enough money to cover costs. lots of sexual references on stage and even a bit of nudity.

High powered ad agencies aren't driving this stuff, it's people who are wired to enjoy this type of thing just indulging themselves and having fun.

NOT for everyone but again, that's my argument: there are people who want and enjoy this stuff and don't feel like it's some sort of cohersion or an allowance of an male dominated society or corporate culture.

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We as a society are to blame for the state its in. Its not bad parenting or school systems or big ugly ad agencies or corporate behemoths or consumers or drug dealers. Its our entire society deeming this acceptable. We are responsible for each other's well being whether its a homeless drug addict or the owner of chic-fil-a funding anti gay marriage lobbyists. We as a society allow people to become objectified and sold for profit. Everyone is partof that.

There is a difference between expressing yourself and objectifying yourself.

Originally posted by Foomerang

 

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Originally posted by NaughtyP
Personally, I think people need to pick their battles a little more wisely. If you are arguing over sexualization in video games, may I also point out the following:

• I am allowed to commit mass extinction (kill 10 rats) while playing almost any MMORPG.
• I am allowed to fight my enemies, to the death, in arena-style combat for gold and experience points.
• I can use knives, guns, magic and so in whatever way I see fit.
• I am allowed to practice the dark arts and worship the dead. I can perform finishing moves on my opponents by removing their limbs or performing other violent acts. I can loot corpses and steal resources. I can ruin the entire server's economy if I try hard enough. I can enslave pets to make them do what I want.

I can do many of these things in many different games. I find many of these things more offensive than cleavage. Sorry.

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This isn't about video game content. Its about using sex to sell products and how that dehumanizes people.

Perhaps you've missed the thousands of video game trailers that show death and destruction used as selling points? I kind of doubt that. What is more dehumanizing than taking the life of another person? I'm curious. Humour me.

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Originally posted by NaughtyP

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Originally posted by Foomerang  

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Originally posted by NaughtyP Personally, I think people need to pick their battles a little more wisely. If you are arguing over sexualization in video games, may I also point out the following:

• I am allowed to commit mass extinction (kill 10 rats) while playing almost any MMORPG. I am allowed to fight my enemies, to the death, in arena-style combat for gold and experience points. I can use knives, guns, magic and so in whatever way I see fit. I am allowed to practice the dark arts and worship the dead. I can perform finishing moves on my opponents by removing their limbs or performing other violent acts. I can loot corpses and steal resources. I can ruin the entire server's economy if I try hard enough. I can enslave pets to make them do what I want.

I can do many of these things in many different games. I find many of these things more offensive than cleavage. Sorry.

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This isn't about video game content. Its about using sex to sell products and how that dehumanizes people.

---

Perhaps you've missed the thousands of video game trailers that show death and destruction used as selling points? I kind of doubt that. What is more dehumanizing than taking the life of another person? I'm curious. Humour me.

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dehumanization and murder are two entirely different subjects. you're talking about which is worse? they are both bad. whats your point. theres no winner here.

Originally posted by Foomerang

 

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Originally posted by gaeanprayer
While I can understand the arguments and anger behind over-sexualization of women in fictional medium, it's really not as wide-spread as people think. Some of it is actually driven by women. Did my thesis on the shift in depiction of women in American Art and it lead me to places I hadn't expected, namely that there are as many feminists for the sexualization ("freedom of expression" vs. the more Victorian era prudishness in regards to women) as there are against it. Both sides have some good points. 

 

Bit of a segue there but, yeah, this is not just a male thing even if the gaming market is (for now) dominated by men. People offended by this should really consider what it is they're offended by, the actual depiction or the so-called "principle" behind it. Personally, I don't mind it. What I do mind is when people throw a fit when the same thing is done to men; remember the MMORPG.com fuss from that MMO advertisement with the pirate dude and the low-rider pants? Equal nudity for all, I say!

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What you're describing is called economic whoredom. Women embrace and often profit from willfully objectifying themselves. They even claim that it empowers them. The problem is that they are only empowered within a patriarchy that allows them to be objectified in exchange for a sense of power and control within this system.

During your thesis, did you you read any books by Bell Hooks or other noted feminists? Most of them feel the opposite of what you are referring to.

Women use their apperance to their advantage just like men use their strength. Some men get scared when women have power over them so when they see a woman using her apperance as her strength they try belittle her by calling her a whore or a slut. These are weak men.

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Originally posted by Istavaan

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Originally posted by Foomerang  

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Originally posted by gaeanprayer While I can understand the arguments and anger behind over-sexualization of women in fictional medium, it's really not as wide-spread as people think. Some of it is actually driven by women. Did my thesis on the shift in depiction of women in American Art and it lead me to places I hadn't expected, namely that there are as many feminists for the sexualization ("freedom of expression" vs. the more Victorian era prudishness in regards to women) as there are against it. Both sides have some good points.    Bit of a segue there but, yeah, this is not just a male thing even if the gaming market is (for now) dominated by men. People offended by this should really consider what it is they're offended by, the actual depiction or the so-called "principle" behind it. Personally, I don't mind it. What I do mind is when people throw a fit when the same thing is done to men; remember the MMORPG.com fuss from that MMO advertisement with the pirate dude and the low-rider pants? Equal nudity for all, I say!

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  What you're describing is called economic whoredom. Women embrace and often profit from willfully objectifying themselves. They even claim that it empowers them. The problem is that they are only empowered within a patriarchy that allows them to be objectified in exchange for a sense of power and control within this system. During your thesis, did you you read any books by Bell Hooks or other noted feminists? Most of them feel the opposite of what you are referring to.

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Women use their apperance to their advantage just like men use their strength. Some men get scared when women have power over them so when they see a woman using her apperance as her strength they try belittle her by calling her a whore or a slut. These are weak men.

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Originally posted by Foomerang

 

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Originally posted by NaughtyP

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Originally posted by Foomerang  

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Originally posted by NaughtyP Personally, I think people need to pick their battles a little more wisely. If you are arguing over sexualization in video games, may I also point out the following:

• I am allowed to commit mass extinction (kill 10 rats) while playing almost any MMORPG.
• I am allowed to fight my enemies, to the death, in arena-style combat for gold and experience points. I can use knives, guns, magic and so in whatever way I see fit. I am allowed to practice the dark arts and worship the dead. I can perform finishing moves on my opponents by removing their limbs or performing other violent acts. I can loot corpses and steal resources. I can ruin the entire server's economy if I try hard enough. I can enslave pets to make them do what I want.

I can do many of these things in many different games. I find many of these things more offensive than cleavage. Sorry.

---

This isn't about video game content. Its about using sex to sell products and how that dehumanizes people.

---

Perhaps you've missed the thousands of video game trailers that show death and destruction used as selling points? I kind of doubt that. What is more dehumanizing than taking the life of another person? I'm curious. Humour me.

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dehumanization and murder are two entirely different subjects.

Hahahaha, you can't possibly be serious. This has to be a joke.

Originally posted by Foomerang

 

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Originally posted by Istavaan

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Originally posted by Foomerang  

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Originally posted by gaeanprayer While I can understand the arguments and anger behind over-sexualization of women in fictional medium, it's really not as wide-spread as people think. Some of it is actually driven by women. Did my thesis on the shift in depiction of women in American Art and it lead me to places I hadn't expected, namely that there are as many feminists for the sexualization ("freedom of expression" vs. the more Victorian era prudishness in regards to women) as there are against it. Both sides have some good points.    Bit of a segue there but, yeah, this is not just a male thing even if the gaming market is (for now) dominated by men. People offended by this should really consider what it is they're offended by, the actual depiction or the so-called "principle" behind it. Personally, I don't mind it. What I do mind is when people throw a fit when the same thing is done to men; remember the MMORPG.com fuss from that MMO advertisement with the pirate dude and the low-rider pants? Equal nudity for all, I say!

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  What you're describing is called economic whoredom. Women embrace and often profit from willfully objectifying themselves. They even claim that it empowers them. The problem is that they are only empowered within a patriarchy that allows them to be objectified in exchange for a sense of power and control within this system. During your thesis, did you you read any books by Bell Hooks or other noted feminists? Most of them feel the opposite of what you are referring to.

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Women use their apperance to their advantage just like men use their strength. Some men get scared when women have power over them so when they see a woman using her apperance as her strength they try belittle her by calling her a whore or a slut. These are weak men.

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Thats patriarchy in a nutshell. Its not about the individuals at play here. Its all of us in these unhealthy societal roles.

 

What's uhealthy about the human body? if people don't like seeing women dressed like that there are countries out there that you could move to that make women cover up from head to toe..that might suit some people on here. getting upset over a piece of art is silly and immature.

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Originally posted by NaughtyP

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Originally posted by Foomerang  

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Originally posted by NaughtyP

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Originally posted by Foomerang  

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Originally posted by NaughtyP Personally, I think people need to pick their battles a little more wisely. If you are arguing over sexualization in video games, may I also point out the following:

• I am allowed to commit mass extinction (kill 10 rats) while playing almost any MMORPG. I am allowed to fight my enemies, to the death, in arena-style combat for gold and experience points. I can use knives, guns, magic and so in whatever way I see fit. I am allowed to practice the dark arts and worship the dead. I can perform finishing moves on my opponents by removing their limbs or performing other violent acts. I can loot corpses and steal resources. I can ruin the entire server's economy if I try hard enough. I can enslave pets to make them do what I want.

I can do many of these things in many different games. I find many of these things more offensive than cleavage. Sorry.

---

This isn't about video game content. Its about using sex to sell products and how that dehumanizes people.

---

Perhaps you've missed the thousands of video game trailers that show death and destruction used as selling points? I kind of doubt that. What is more dehumanizing than taking the life of another person? I'm curious. Humour me.

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dehumanization and murder are two entirely different subjects.

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Hahahaha, you can't possibly be serious. This has to be a joke.

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Originally posted by Istavaan
What's uhealthy about the human body? if people don't like seeing women dressed like that there are countries out there that you could move to that make women cover up from head to toe..that might suit some people on here. getting upset over a piece of art is silly and immature.

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This isn't art, its an advertisement. The Mona Lisa is art. Taking the Mona Lisa and placing it in an ad to sell life insurance is not art.

Originally posted by Foomerang

 

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Originally posted by NaughtyP

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Originally posted by Foomerang  

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Originally posted by NaughtyP

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Originally posted by Foomerang  

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Originally posted by NaughtyP Personally, I think people need to pick their battles a little more wisely. If you are arguing over sexualization in video games, may I also point out the following:

• I am allowed to commit mass extinction (kill 10 rats) while playing almost any MMORPG. I am allowed to fight my enemies, to the death, in arena-style combat for gold and experience points. I can use knives, guns, magic and so in whatever way I see fit. I am allowed to practice the dark arts and worship the dead. I can perform finishing moves on my opponents by removing their limbs or performing other violent acts. I can loot corpses and steal resources. I can ruin the entire server's economy if I try hard enough. I can enslave pets to make them do what I want.

I can do many of these things in many different games. I find many of these things more offensive than cleavage. Sorry.

---

This isn't about video game content. Its about using sex to sell products and how that dehumanizes people.

---

Perhaps you've missed the thousands of video game trailers that show death and destruction used as selling points? I kind of doubt that. What is more dehumanizing than taking the life of another person? I'm curious. Humour me.

---

dehumanization and murder are two entirely different subjects.

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Hahahaha, you can't possibly be serious. This has to be a joke.

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both are forms of dominance and oppression. but thats about it. you cant justify one because the other exists. i love these arguments that keep popping up to defend objectification. because other stuff is just as bad or worse, that makes it ok? no.

 

Not what I said, that's all your words not mine. Just curious why you would choose this battle over other evils that are (in my opinion) far more destructive. I guess, randomness?

Originally posted by Foomerang

 

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Originally posted by Nailzzz
     I'm always amused whenever people start discussing "patriarchy" in a modern day context. At least in the US we have more female voters than we do male ones, and yet somehow we still wind up with male presidents. Most CEO's are male despite that most discretionary spending is done by women giving them much influence as a group over which businesses succed or fail. Most men in jail were raised by their single mothers despite claiming to be victims of males (who really victimized who?). Women claim to want nice guys, but then sleep with men of selfish charachter rather than any genuinely nice guys they know, and then wonder why guys are jerks. Women get pregnant and choose to keep the child because they want something to love them, despite that they may hate thier own parents.

 

     Women as a group are a mass of contradictions. The whole idea of "patriarchy" is laughable in a modern day context given all of these examples of female decision making. If there is a "patriarchy" it is only because women prefer it over any alternatives. When it comes to women, men are reactive. Most things a man does throughout his life is on some level due to wanting to have women think positively about him. If women wanted to change the way society runs, it would simply happen.

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seriously? lol

Nevermind women are portrayed as helpless in films and television more than men. Nevermind women are sexualized and objectified more than men in mass media.
Nevermind the majority of domestic violence victims are women.
Nevermind the majority of rape victims are women.

Keep telling yourself that women are in control here.

You haven't a clue man, everything he said is very accurate and how i also see society. More men are raped than women. more men are murdered than women. If anything women are portrayed as powerful in movies, if there is ever a fight between a man and a woman in a movie generally the woman wins. Men are equally objectified just watch fucking twilight or any stupid teen movie.