Originally posted by grimal

Originally posted by Stx11

Your points were fine. However:

"These "is GW2 the first to do this" threads are grasping at straws and really adding to the over-hype nonsense."

certainly colors your post in a certain light, no?

Ok, I'm going to assume you haven't been to the forums recently, but for the past few months there has been an excessive amount of posts claiming features of GW2 are wholly original and groundbreaking (even to someone expounding on how "amazing" the login screen is).

So, yes, my statement can seem colored to the unitiated. 

 

True however there have been an equal number of the "this game is {insert colorful metaphor here}, and will never be as good as {insert other game here}" or "I am not playing this game because of these changes that need to be made and if they are not made game will die in two months"

oh and my to favorites

"enough with the posts about {insert either complaint about over hype or complaint about over cynisicm}"

both side of course feels as thoguh the other side is not allowed to have an opinion. the reason you are a being labeled a hater is simply because you are coming off as being on the side of the coin that feels that somneone "hyped" about the game is not allowed said "hyped" opinion.

Personaly I am exicted for the game, yes there are problems but there are no perfect games anymore, saying it is "over hyped nonsense" is as equally stupid as saying "gw2 is the first to ____"

the reason....all games are over hyped, it's marketing, very few games make it when they are not hyped, and this game is hardly over hyped compared to SWTOR(not to bad mouth a game but with the amount of short movies they made they should have just made a full movie). 

so yes I understand there are problems with this game, there are problems with any game.....but damnit can you not let us get excited about a game on said games forums?!

Originally posted by seridan

Originally posted by Ban_Khaeros

If you want a drama-free zone chat, every single GW2 player must learn how to politely respond to critical gamers (and have an open mind when considering their claims) and ignore trolls.  However, if 99% of people on MMORPG.com can't ignore trolls and the GW2 subforum is a clique that blasts anyone for pointing out a potential problem with the game, how do you expect that Guru community to?

Can you point out a SINGLE post by a "critical" gamer, pointing out a potential problem that was actually "blasted" by anyone?

Originally posted by ForumPvP

i dont know about this but can eveybody revive other players ? is it automatic action also ? like if you go close enough to someones body then your characters revives him automatically ?

if not then it will be ultimate weapon and i can see lots of crying coming when someone doesnt revive you and it must be made automatic also.

 

 Anyone can rez...yes...

It is not automatic it takes a few seconds. Far as whether it will be an issue? Meh...some will rant about it and some will appreciate when they receive it. I don't see one aspect being any more prevalent than the other.

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by ForumPvP

i dont know about this but can eveybody revive other players ? is it automatic action also ? like if you go close enough to someones body then your characters revives him automatically ?

if not then it will be ultimate weapon and i can see lots of crying coming when someone doesnt revive you and it must be made automatic also.

 

 Anyone can rez...yes...

It is not automatic it takes a few seconds. Far as whether it will be an issue? Meh...some will rant about it and some will appreciate when they receive it. I don't see one aspect being any more prevalent than the other.

thanks.

as i see it ,it will be the ultimate weapon of world PvP ,you cant attack any other players but now you can.

dont rez them is just like you kill them in wow etc, and make them spawn to nearest spawnpoint or whatever it is.

Originally posted by Ban_Khaeros

Originally posted by seridan

Originally posted by Ban_Khaeros

If you want a drama-free zone chat, every single GW2 player must learn how to politely respond to critical gamers (and have an open mind when considering their claims) and ignore trolls.  However, if 99% of people on MMORPG.com can't ignore trolls and the GW2 subforum is a clique that blasts anyone for pointing out a potential problem with the game, how do you expect that Guru community to?

Can you point out a SINGLE post by a "critical" gamer, pointing out a potential problem that was actually "blasted" by anyone?

 

Sure can.  But to be honest, all you have to do is go here and scroll through the topics, clicking on any thread that mentions a problem about GW2.

The link you provided says nothing. The OP didn't know what he was talking about, the comment about end-game not being ready was already refuted by the devs as nothing but "incorrect" and irrelevant information. I went to your second link (nice way to be funny) and found no posts of the sort you mentioned yet.

Try again

Originally posted by ForumPvP

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by ForumPvP

i dont know about this but can eveybody revive other players ? is it automatic action also ? like if you go close enough to someones body then your characters revives him automatically ?

if not then it will be ultimate weapon and i can see lots of crying coming when someone doesnt revive you and it must be made automatic also.

 

 Anyone can rez...yes...

It is not automatic it takes a few seconds. Far as whether it will be an issue? Meh...some will rant about it and some will appreciate when they receive it. I don't see one aspect being any more prevalent than the other.

thanks.

as i see it ,it will be the ultimate weapon of world PvP ,you cant attack any other players but now you can.

dont rez them is just like you kill them in wow etc, and make them spawn to nearest spawnpoint or whatever it is.

 

 I should probably be clearer that I'm referring to the downed state. That is what you can bring someone up quickly from. Technically if they're dead then they have to respawn. So if they're downed you can bring them up quickly. If they're dead they have to respawn.

Probably should have been clearer on that. My bad. Still trying to wake up this morning.

Far as downed state goes. It's interesting. Do you leave a player in that state essentially taking him out of the fight as a main player for a longer period of time knowing he may be able to getr back that much quicker if he is able to take out a player or be stuck in the state for some time unable to really help his team?  Do you kb him and let him respawn? Kind of a neat concept. Could potentially be frustrating though too.

Guild Wars 2 isn't the first MMO to push a collaborative effort, but I do think it's the first to do it so effectively. I think they put the competition in PvP where it belongs, while PvE focuses on giving people opportunities to work together versus fighting over trivial things like mobs and loot. For me, the bosses and the loot become secondary in GW2, it's fun because I feel like I'm a part of one huge, epic team. That team effort is very enticing and is what will keep the game fun for me long after I've sucked the content dry.

Other devs seem to agree considering much of GW2's elements are starting to get worked into their games. People get their own loot, no kill stealing, etc. It's nice. I think that should be the standard, one less bit of ammunition for childish griefers.

Well as more people play, the community will decrease, mobs,loot and "etc" do not always invoke "Bad attitudes" sometimes it's just people in general.

It is really easy to say  the community is perfect pre-release.

Not to say GW2 does not have some awesome people from what/whom I've played with.

But I still don't have my head up in the sun shiney precious moments to realize this is only the result of beta weekends (And soon pre-release for like everyone of us who pre-ordered).

Give it a month and the rot will start.

In almost every single mmo, the beta community is FAR different than the "vast majority".

It's akin to a "Tribal" mentality to a "City multi tier tribal" mentality.

Basically..Villagers versus gangsters.

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by ForumPvP

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by ForumPvP

i dont know about this but can eveybody revive other players ? is it automatic action also ? like if you go close enough to someones body then your characters revives him automatically ?

if not then it will be ultimate weapon and i can see lots of crying coming when someone doesnt revive you and it must be made automatic also.

 

 Anyone can rez...yes...

It is not automatic it takes a few seconds. Far as whether it will be an issue? Meh...some will rant about it and some will appreciate when they receive it. I don't see one aspect being any more prevalent than the other.

thanks.

as i see it ,it will be the ultimate weapon of world PvP ,you cant attack any other players but now you can.

dont rez them is just like you kill them in wow etc, and make them spawn to nearest spawnpoint or whatever it is.

 

 I should probably be clearer that I'm referring to the downed state. That is what you can bring someone up quickly from. Technically if they're dead then they have to respawn. So if they're downed you can bring them up quickly. If they're dead they have to respawn.

Probably should have been clearer on that. My bad. Still trying to wake up this morning.

Far as downed state goes. It's interesting. Do you leave a player in that state essentially taking him out of the fight as a main player for a longer period of time knowing he may be able to getr back that much quicker if he is able to take out a player or be stuck in the state for some time unable to really help his team?  Do you kb him and let him respawn? Kind of a neat concept. Could potentially be frustrating though too.

 

You can revive anyone when they are either in the downed state or defeated. If they are downed they can revive themselves if they kill someone or if they use the skill bandage and not take any damage while doing so. If someone is defeated they can either wait to be revived by others or release to a waypoint they like.

Reviving gives contribution in events, you can get a gold medal if you revive enough people, even if you don't deal much damage. Also, events scale depending on the number of players, more players, harder events, even if they are downed or defeated, this means that reviving is essential. Riviving also gives experience and since there is no kill stealing, I find zero point not reviving someone.

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by ForumPvP

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by ForumPvP

i dont know about this but can eveybody revive other players ? is it automatic action also ? like if you go close enough to someones body then your characters revives him automatically ?

if not then it will be ultimate weapon and i can see lots of crying coming when someone doesnt revive you and it must be made automatic also.

 

 Anyone can rez...yes...

It is not automatic it takes a few seconds. Far as whether it will be an issue? Meh...some will rant about it and some will appreciate when they receive it. I don't see one aspect being any more prevalent than the other.

thanks.

as i see it ,it will be the ultimate weapon of world PvP ,you cant attack any other players but now you can.

dont rez them is just like you kill them in wow etc, and make them spawn to nearest spawnpoint or whatever it is.

 

 I should probably be clearer that I'm referring to the downed state. That is what you can bring someone up quickly from. Technically if they're dead then they have to respawn. So if they're downed you can bring them up quickly. If they're dead they have to respawn.

Probably should have been clearer on that. My bad. Still trying to wake up this morning.

 

dang ,i allready allmost saw myself playing " theres MeGa_TuRbO´s corpse on the floor dead begging for rez,soz MT not this time"

but no,dang you ANET!

Someone has probably already said this, but I believe the Public Quests in WARHammer was the first to do the 'friendly' grouping thing w/o having to.

GW2 has taken that idea and taken the classes and the DEs well beyond that, it's incredible to watch imho. I love watching the DEs light up and run off to help.

Having played both games, WARHammer had the right ideas, but they lost their community so quickly due to other factors the PQs never really had a chance to function properly.

I don't see that happening with GW2's designs, the game just doesn't have the same flaws, they watched and learned the mistakes of the past games, something that is so smart, yet not done very often.

Originally posted by seridan

You can revive anyone when they are either in the downed state or defeated. If they are downed they can revive themselves if they kill someone or if they use the skill bandage and not take any damage while doing so. If someone is defeated they can either wait to be revived by others or release to a waypoint they like.

Reviving gives contribution in events, you can get a gold medal if you revive enough people, even if you don't deal much damage. Also, events scale depending on the number of players, more players, harder events, even if they are downed or defeated, this means that reviving is essential. Riviving also gives experience and since there is no kill stealing, I find zero point not reviving someone.

 I don't see why one wouldn't but you know how some players are.

Then there are times where some aren't patient enough to wait because sometimes pending on the scenario you can't get to them.

You have all types. Although I can't see one being more prevalent than the other. In most cases not helping those players is only going to possibly hurt themselvesd anyways.

Originally posted by Wizardry

I would rather cal lit a SAFE design ,but not a friendly one.

You create friendships MUCH better in grouping games that have you ASK others to group.This auto grouping design for events does nothign to create friends.It is just each player acting on their own.

Also anyone that knows the work and effort it took to get content done in a group in FFXI remembers how great friendships were created.It did not matter if in a guild or not,you needed something done,you asked others and soon gained new friends.

I remember gaining friends just helping people get their AF gear,ther really is a big difference in what type of game creates friends.You spend an entire day helping someone,they are extremely gratious and it gives ones self a good feeling as well.GW2 is more designed to be selfish,i move from event to event and try to do the MOST damage i can to get the most rewards.That does nothing to promote friendships.

Just because A-Net or ANy developer says they are doing something ,does not make it fact,they will always 100% of the time be in marketing mode.People need to use game experiences and think for themselves.

The part of GW2 that i call SAFE and does promote some friendly atmosphere is by removing loot arguments.We all remember seeing a great loot item drop and everyone starts arguing over who gets it.HOWEVER IF peopel are trying to be friendly,you set it all up BEFORE hand,you don't just random fight then argue afterwards.There was still problems with that design as well, a leader would grab the loot and disband group,or everyone would  GREED but one ass hat would NEED.

However even with thoe flaws i mention,the GW2 design is selfish,you are not helping anyone in events but yourself.FFXI actually TRIED to design a MUCH better system in their Campaigns.They tried to use a complete EFFORT idea for rewards.That meant you could buff others and still get the same reward as someone doing most damage,so it DID encourage friendlier game play.The problem was players soon found ways to exploit that and ruined it for everyone.

This point was to show that even if a developer tries to help promote friendly game play,players often are more selfish than friendly.

100% correct.  I see nothing friendly about being forced into a group without asking, going about the business of doing as much damage or clearing as many objectives as you can individually while in the group, not saying a single word to anyone while the event is taking place, and then moving on to the next event.  It doesn't promote friendliness in the least, despite ANet's assertions that it does.  But it does, however, remove confrontation, which can be viewed as a good thing in its own right.

Originally posted by Rider071

Someone has probably already said this, but I believe the Public Quests in WARHammer was the first to do the 'friendly' grouping thing w/o having to.

GW2 has taken that idea and taken the classes and the DEs well beyond that, it's incredible to watch imho. I love watching the DEs light up and run off to help.

Having played both games, WARHammer had the right ideas, but they lost their community so quickly due to other factors the PQs never really had a chance to function properly.

I don't see that happening with GW2's designs, the game just doesn't have the same flaws, they watched and learned the mistakes of the past games, something that is so smart, yet not done very often.

Good post. You know the last game to truly watch the mistakes of it's predecessors, rip off their best bits and improve or enhance them while fixing and/or removing/avoiding their failings?

World of Warcraft.

Originally posted by Rider071

Someone has probably already said this, but I believe the Public Quests in WARHammer was the first to do the 'friendly' grouping thing w/o having to.

GW2 has taken that idea and taken the classes and the DEs well beyond that, it's incredible to watch imho. I love watching the DEs light up and run off to help.

Having played both games, WARHammer had the right ideas, but they lost their community so quickly due to other factors the PQs never really had a chance to function properly.

I don't see that happening with GW2's designs, the game just doesn't have the same flaws, they watched and learned the mistakes of the past games, something that is so smart, yet not done very often.

Problem with WAR's Public Quests was the fact that PQs gave you loot bags with specific pre-defined loot inside them. What this lead to was people only doing PQs with good loot rewards and ignoring all the others, even at the expense of rewards if you do all zone-wide PQs. Dynamic Events are the improved version of this with no specific loot rewards, but with currency that you can spend however you see fit. It's a natural iteration of the system.

Originally posted by Zinzan

Originally posted by Rider071

Someone has probably already said this, but I believe the Public Quests in WARHammer was the first to do the 'friendly' grouping thing w/o having to.

GW2 has taken that idea and taken the classes and the DEs well beyond that, it's incredible to watch imho. I love watching the DEs light up and run off to help.

Having played both games, WARHammer had the right ideas, but they lost their community so quickly due to other factors the PQs never really had a chance to function properly.

I don't see that happening with GW2's designs, the game just doesn't have the same flaws, they watched and learned the mistakes of the past games, something that is so smart, yet not done very often.

Good post. You know the last game to truly watch the mistakes of it's predecessors, rip off their best bits and improve or enhance them while fixing and/or removing/avoiding their failings?

World of Warcraft.

I disagree, I played the original F+F beta, then the closed and open betas of WoW, and retail for a time. WoW stole good ideas, never improved on much, and when asked to change or given contributions to help make it better they ignored public opinion and did whatever they felt they wanted, especially in regards to whomever was in charge and how butthurt they felt in pvp during the beta.

WoW was definitely not an example of what I had described. Their success was because they marketed ingeniously and was able to strike at a time when Gen Y was at their peak looking for a game to call their own, in short, being in the right place at the right time.

Originally posted by Methos12

Originally posted by Rider071

Someone has probably already said this, but I believe the Public Quests in WARHammer was the first to do the 'friendly' grouping thing w/o having to.

GW2 has taken that idea and taken the classes and the DEs well beyond that, it's incredible to watch imho. I love watching the DEs light up and run off to help.

Having played both games, WARHammer had the right ideas, but they lost their community so quickly due to other factors the PQs never really had a chance to function properly.

I don't see that happening with GW2's designs, the game just doesn't have the same flaws, they watched and learned the mistakes of the past games, something that is so smart, yet not done very often.

Problem with WAR's Public Quests was the fact that PQs gave you loot bags with specific pre-defined loot inside them. What this lead to was people only doing PQs with good loot rewards and ignoring all the others, even at the expense of rewards if you do all zone-wide PQs. Dynamic Events are the improved version of this with no specific loot rewards, but with currency that you can spend however you see fit. It's a natural iteration of the system.

 Yeah...it literally reached a point where it was impossible to get a lot of the PQs done because there was simply not enough folks around or they couldn't be bothered. Bah, so much of that game was a disappointment. Irritates me just talking about it.

To the OP: I think it is the first game that has taken serious steps to change PVE to a cooperative experience regardless of player guild/group adherence. - Its a small change with a huge impact.

I also dont feel harassed by the game mechanics when it comes to harvesting materials because of the way GW2 works in that area. I allways found this tedious in other games, having to get addons to track nodes, and cycle around endlessly around a map hoping it wasnt on any other persons to-do list at that time of night/day. -- again a small change with a huge positive impact.

PVP is where the competition will be for me, and pve will be mostly hazzle free, which I am immensely thankfull for.

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by Methos12

Originally posted by Rider071

Someone has probably already said this, but I believe the Public Quests in WARHammer was the first to do the 'friendly' grouping thing w/o having to.

GW2 has taken that idea and taken the classes and the DEs well beyond that, it's incredible to watch imho. I love watching the DEs light up and run off to help.

Having played both games, WARHammer had the right ideas, but they lost their community so quickly due to other factors the PQs never really had a chance to function properly.

I don't see that happening with GW2's designs, the game just doesn't have the same flaws, they watched and learned the mistakes of the past games, something that is so smart, yet not done very often.

Problem with WAR's Public Quests was the fact that PQs gave you loot bags with specific pre-defined loot inside them. What this lead to was people only doing PQs with good loot rewards and ignoring all the others, even at the expense of rewards if you do all zone-wide PQs. Dynamic Events are the improved version of this with no specific loot rewards, but with currency that you can spend however you see fit. It's a natural iteration of the system.

 Yeah...it literally reached a point where it was impossible to get a lot of the PQs done because there was simply not enough folks around or they couldn't be bothered. Bah, so much of that game was a disappointment. Irritates me just talking about it.

I think WAR's biggest problems with the PQ's were that people were leveling faster in the arena pvp.  People kept doing that over and over and over.  It took the people out of the game world.  I would have made it so you would get little to no XP (just rewards or money) in the arena pvp and I think the world would have been a lot more populated, which would have made the PQ's doable.

Originally posted by Badaboom

I think WAR's biggest problems with the PQ's were that people were leveling faster in the arena pvp.  People kept doing that over and over and over.  It took the people out of the game world.  I would have made it so you would get little to no XP (just rewards or money) in the arena pvp and I think the world would have been a lot more populated, which would have made the PQ's doable.

 Yeah, that was certainly one of the issues. I have to admit I started doing that myself when I played the game.