Originally posted by immodium

IMO what ANET is doing with automatic grouping is a step backwards in encouraging gamers to be sociable. They have made it even easier than using a dungeon/group/raid finder to group up.

It's not ANET's fault its how MMO's have to go as most gamers don't like to be sociable. GW2 is going in the same direction, catering for the anti-social solo'er.

I don't feel that they are catering to anyone in particular. They are providing every type of player with the tools for them to enjoy the game as they see fit, be it through constant socialization or silent hermitude. They did the unspeakable - they stopped forcing people to conform to some rigid definition of how you should play and let it be up to the player.

If people want to be socialable they have the means to do it. If they don't want to talk, they have the means to do it. No one is excluded, everyone wins. Well that isn't true. If someone is the type that likes to force others to play the way they want, they might have some concerns. But I don't think they are the target audience of GW2.

How can you ever have a genuinely friendly atmosphere when so many people are only being friendly because the game forces them to to experience the game? Friendliness has to be a choice, not a mandate.

Originally posted by Stx11

The "poor outlook on gaming" came from your expressed frustration over how SWTOR is treated on these forums. Sorry if I wasn't clearer on that.

As for "GW2 is a well-designed game" - well yes it's an opinion but it is a much more debatable one than "I like it" or "I think it's crap" don't you agree?

As I said I can give a whole list of reasons for why I am convinced that GW2 is a well-designed game. I can also provide my reasoning on why I believe that no game has combined or implemented gameplay features to encourage "friendly gameplay" in the way GW2 has.

You may disagree. That's fine. If you want to discuss it you should expect to be asked for your reasons or counter-arguments especially in a thread about it on a forum. If you don't want to discuss it why are you even posting?

Wow, ok. I have gone far enough in this OT digression.  First, I responded to OP's grandiose question.  I provided my reasons.  You chimed in, basically calling me a hater because of my voiced irritation at the arrogance of the title of the post itself.  I've gone enough back and forth with you.  I did my bit.  You keep trying to drag this on and on but I am not going to do it.   I've posted my reasons for my thoughts.  If you want to label me a "hater" or "bitter" b/c I am determined to hold out judgement on GW2 until I, myself, have played longer than a few BWE events, fine.  Just like I don't call a movie great based on trailers alone, I don't consider a few weekends of play the entire game.

If you want to start a new thread outlining your reasons why GW2 does what it does leaps and bounds beyond others, go ahead.  Maybe I'll respond, maybe not.  But this is not the thread to do it in.

P.S. OP - Sorry for the OT posts.

Originally posted by Grunties

I don't feel that they are catering to anyone in particular. They are providing every type of player with the tools for them to enjoy the game as they see fit, be it through constant socialization or silent hermitude. They did the unspeakable - they stopped forcing people to conform to some rigid definition of how you should play and let it be up to the player.

If people want to be socialable they have the means to do it. If they don't want to talk, they have the means to do it. No one is excluded, everyone wins. Well that isn't true. If someone is the type that likes to force others to play the way they want, they might have some concerns. But I don't think they are the target audience of GW2.

How can you ever have a genuinely friendly atmosphere when so many people are only being friendly because the game forces them to to experience the game? Friendliness has to be a choice, not a mandate.

So in conclusion GW2 is being no more sociable than any other MMO? :)

Originally posted by immodium

Originally posted by Grunties

I don't feel that they are catering to anyone in particular. They are providing every type of player with the tools for them to enjoy the game as they see fit, be it through constant socialization or silent hermitude. They did the unspeakable - they stopped forcing people to conform to some rigid definition of how you should play and let it be up to the player.

If people want to be socialable they have the means to do it. If they don't want to talk, they have the means to do it. No one is excluded, everyone wins. Well that isn't true. If someone is the type that likes to force others to play the way they want, they might have some concerns. But I don't think they are the target audience of GW2.

How can you ever have a genuinely friendly atmosphere when so many people are only being friendly because the game forces them to to experience the game? Friendliness has to be a choice, not a mandate.

So in conclusion GW2 is being no more sociable than any other MMO? :)

In conclusion the game leaves it in the hands of the players to decide it. It does not dictate it for anyone. But that doesn't mean its cooperation friendly designs dont encourage it. My personal experience is that more players have chosen to be friendly than not, if the sheer number of players going out of their way to rez me is any indication. And because no one is forced to do it like other games have, I feel its more genuine. Which makes it more valuable socially than other MMO's.

Originally posted by immodium

Originally posted by Grunties

I don't feel that they are catering to anyone in particular. They are providing every type of player with the tools for them to enjoy the game as they see fit, be it through constant socialization or silent hermitude. They did the unspeakable - they stopped forcing people to conform to some rigid definition of how you should play and let it be up to the player.

If people want to be socialable they have the means to do it. If they don't want to talk, they have the means to do it. No one is excluded, everyone wins. Well that isn't true. If someone is the type that likes to force others to play the way they want, they might have some concerns. But I don't think they are the target audience of GW2.

How can you ever have a genuinely friendly atmosphere when so many people are only being friendly because the game forces them to to experience the game? Friendliness has to be a choice, not a mandate.

So in conclusion GW2 is being no more sociable than any other MMO? :)

FXI-XIV CoH, WoW pre dungeon finder. EVE,

 Don't be so down cause GW2 isn't the best "Social game"  It has other good features that make of for it. (we will see if that holds true in a year anyway.

Originally posted by BadSpock

I think the open/friendly non-compete nature of GW2 PvE is going to make it a very friendly and community driven experience... but a quiet one in public as people will really only spend time talking to other people if they are in their own guild chat.

I forsee general chats being a bit more ghostly than other MMOs.

You simply don't need to communicate as much to be effective in open world content - positive or negative?

But each server is likely to be different.

well in PvE it was kinda like that, but in WvW it was totally different ..!

I actually wasted my time reviving people ...

/Shivers

Being sociable requires at least two parties interacting with one another.  If one, or more, players are not interacting then YOU can make the effort to initiate the conversation.  I see all the time these posts about how "unsociable" a game is.  With the realative anonymoty of the internet one should have very little anxiety over conversing with others.  It works.  I have had very few issues interacting with other players, especially with initiating.

It is also a good way of finding out who the RP'ers are that take things way to seriously as well! j/k, but no not really...

Cheers!

I dunno of any other that's done this either. The thing is this, why did the other mmo devs decide that pve should be a competition for resources when they had pleanty of room for it in pvp? (leaving out the consideration of all the clones out there)

I love this. Was telling my husband about this today while playing LOTRO with him. don't have to worry about accidently killing someone elses mob anymore or taking the ore they were about to get or killing the named quest mob they needed before they got there. It's awesome.

Originally posted by vmoped

Being sociable requires at least two parties interacting with one another.  If one, or more, players are not interacting then YOU can make the effort to initiate the conversation.  I see all the time these posts about how "unsociable" a game is.  With the realative anonymoty of the internet one should have very little anxiety over conversing with others.  It works.  I have had very few issues interacting with other players, especially with initiating.

It is also a good way of finding out who the RP'ers are that take things way to seriously as well! j/k, but no not really...

Cheers!

OP wasn't talking about sociable, he said FRIENDLY which means people aren't in competition for every single thing in pve anymore so it makes for a better play experience.

Originally posted by itgrowls

OP wasn't talking about sociable, he said FRIENDLY which means people aren't in competition for every single thing in pve anymore so it makes for a better play experience.

 I know mate.  I was referring to later posts in the topic where alot of posts revolve around people not being sociable, a bit off track I suppose.  I honestly find the game as friendly as most mmo's I have played.  I suppose it can be a mindset, or maybe due to my habit of typically playing on rp servers....

Cheers!

Originally posted by Xirik

FXI-XIV CoH, WoW pre dungeon finder. EVE,

 Don't be so down cause GW2 isn't the best "Social game"  It has other good features that make of for it. (we will see if that holds true in a year anyway.

the node competition in WOW or mob tagging was never social

Originally posted by Kniknax

I realised recently that during my time in GW2 I had not get annoyed or pissed off by another player during PVE playtime at all (I didn't try PVP to my shame), which is (sad to say) pretty usual for me in most games. This got me to thinking about whether ArenaNet were actively trying to create a real friendly and fair environment within the game - which is probably a first.

Most if not all MMO's I have played have gameplay mechanics that allow for all sorts of annoyances - from players running in and stealing the freshly popped quest NPC, to the tank having the wrong gear for a dungeon and not telling you, to the level 80 running into town and killing all the quest NPCs, to being ganked by a guy 30 levels higher than you whilst out questing (repeatedly).

However, Guild Wars 2 has things to counter all of these - so they just dont ever happen. They have everyone getting a quest update who helped kill to the NPC, to removing the gear grind and making it skill based, to making everyone in an area the same level. In fact almost every annoyance in most MMO's seem to be countered by Guild Wars.

I can't think of another MMO that seems to do this - but I may be wrong (excluding Hello Kitty Online and Clone Wars - although I'm not so sure about Hello Kitty, it always looked a bit evil).

Without even reading even further in this thread i had to wonder the red marked bit of the OP here.

imho you MUST be a wow player right?

why? well imho its not the tank his fault his gear aint good enough (dungeons have lvl req, not gear req.....the wow community invented this gear req AKA gearscore).

This is why even thinking that this player is wrong is wrong from your part imo.

If games want people to not being able to do high end content then they should check your gear when you want to Q for a dungeon.

The game is designed that way but people like you just cant handle a fiew wipes imo, you want to always win.....there is a surprise waiting for you in the real world m8.

imho its the playes that need be more social and not the game forcing you to be m8

My 2 copperz

Originally posted by Xiaoki

Judging by this forum: NO.
GW2 only encourages a friendly atmosphere when everyone agrees that GW2 is perfect in every way.

It does when you play it, but not always when you post about it later on a forum.

GW2 is not the first game encouraging this either, but it is the first game encouraging it in a long time.

As I see it is the need or greed feature the real troublemaker in MMOs together with the fact that questing have gone from a group activety to a solothing. Kill stealing were rarer whan people quested in group (even though it was from uncommon).

There have also been a lot more focus on you than in early MMOs that was focused on your group to a larger degree.

The games more or less rewards you for ninja looting today, GW2 doesnt.

Originally posted by oubers

Originally posted by Kniknax

Most if not all MMO's I have played have gameplay mechanics that allow for all sorts of annoyances - from players running in and stealing the freshly popped quest NPC, to the tank having the wrong gear for a dungeon and not telling you, to the level 80 running into town and killing all the quest NPCs, to being ganked by a guy 30 levels higher than you whilst out questing (repeatedly).

Without even reading even further in this thread i had to wonder the red marked bit of the OP here.

imho you MUST be a wow player right?

why? well imho its not the tank his fault his gear aint good enough (dungeons have lvl req, not gear req.....the wow community invented this gear req AKA gearscore).

This is why even thinking that this player is wrong is wrong from your part imo.

Ive seen wow tanks in dps gear - and not defensive gear

this goes beyond issues of undergeared

or worse, a druid healer using feral gear and having a crappy power pool because of it

Get Your Arenanet Cake and Eat it To

If GW2 is successful in attracting large numbers of players after release who have no previous experience with GW, I am sure many of these new players will be bowled over by the friendly and helpful community responses when they question why there is no trinity, or why there is no dungeon finder, or simply questions any game design factor which they enjoyed in other games but do not find in GW2.

A very remarkable community indeed!

Originally posted by lovefist

Originally posted by Amjoco
Gotta love it. Of course it's only BWEs we have played, but the entire time I played I had not one time seen a single curse word, a your momma joke, or anything like it. No chatter about other games and nothing negative about GW2 at all. It was a first for me in a beta not seeing any of this. I was part of the Tera beta and that was total WoW crossroads chatter. (nothing against Tera itself). Hopefully this is a more adult oriented mmorpg.

True, I didn't see any of that either...but to be fair, I didn't see a whole lot of chat at all about anything! I think the chat system in GW2 could be a bit better, and let you know a bit clearer what channel you're in or whats being said where. I found it hard to distinguish when someone was talking in /say or in /map. If it had channel names or maybe channel coloured text it would make it far easier.

I didn't see a lot of chat cuz I wasn't looking at the chat box.  I was immersed in the world on my screen.  Maybe after a couple of months I'll pay more attention to the chat box.

But I agree with the O.P., and I'm very interested in what the community will be like in a game that takes most of the interpersonal conflict mechanisms out of the system and replaces them with cooperative mechanisms.

Guild Wars 2 isn't a magic pill.  Trade chat heroes will still be trade chat heroes; trolls will be trolls.  It has nothing to do with the accessibility of the game or the design decisions made by the developers.  It has everything to do with the attitude of the players that choose to use the chat and the sensitivity of the other players.

Accessibility has no effect:  World of Warcraft has a barrier to entry and has annoying trade chat.  Dungeons and Dragons Online has a low barrier to entry and its zone chats are tame.

Design decisions have no effect:  DDO is an inward-focused, instance-heavy MMO played alone or in small teams and still manages to have a relatively friendly community.  EVE Online is a sandbox game that represents a rogue's gallery of scammers.

Instead, the community will be defined by one thing: the sensitivity of the responders.

If someone in the zone chat points out a flaw of GW2 and people rise up getting mad and start tapping away with their own snide comments to reinforce their like of the game (groupthink / circlejerk, a problem that exists on these forums right here), you can bet that people will constantly instigate the playerbase.  Once you show that you are vulnerable to getting mad over a video game, the trolls will pose as critical gamers and get you riled up.

If you want a drama-free zone chat, every single GW2 player must learn how to politely respond to critical gamers (and have an open mind when considering their claims) and ignore trolls.  However, if 99% of people on MMORPG.com can't ignore trolls and the GW2 subforum is a clique that blasts anyone for pointing out a potential problem with the game, how do you expect that Guru community to?

Originally posted by Ban_Khaeros

If you want a drama-free zone chat, every single GW2 player must learn how to politely respond to critical gamers (and have an open mind when considering their claims) and ignore trolls.  However, if 99% of people on MMORPG.com can't ignore trolls and the GW2 subforum is a clique that blasts anyone for pointing out a potential problem with the game, how do you expect that Guru community to?

Can you point out a SINGLE post by a "critical" gamer, pointing out a potential problem that was actually "blasted" by anyone?

i dont know about this but can eveybody revive other players ? is it automatic action also ? like if you go close enough to someones body then your characters revives him automatically ?

if not then it will be ultimate weapon and i can see lots of crying coming when someone doesnt revive you and it must be made automatic also.