Originally posted by immodium

It really doesn't change the fact that in most other MMO's you have to actually be sociable to do group content. And in some cases that does lead to friendship.

In GW2 they have taken that away. You do not have to be sociable to do DE's. Is that a good or bad thing, taking away the 'little' sociable aspect to grouping entirely? Will GW2 spawn players that find it unusual in newer games to actually be sociable to form groups for certain content?

We will have to wait and see.

 

Yes, you are not FORCED to be sociable.

You can choose to be however.  Honestly, making friends in a game isn't that hard.  It just takes some typing.  Now, granted, it would be more awesome with some sort of intelligent voice chat interface (that overcame the obvious problems), but still, you can type and make friends with people you are running around with.

TBH, I think it's just an extension of what they were already doing in GW1.

GW1 is basically fully instanced CORPG, No kill stealing because each person/group had their own version of the world.

GW1 had loot assigned to players with no need/greed function. Could openly trade items if not customized, but kill a creature and an item would have your name on it so no one else in your group could pick it up unless you dropped it on the ground.

These two things transplanted into a similar version of themselves for a persistent world. Seems like this encourages team play amongst the player base rather than individual competiveness between each involved party.

Are they the first to do things to encourage fairness and a friendly atmosphere? No. Is it something that they have had a reputation for thus far? I'd say yes.

I think plenty of other games have added elements of this idea, but GW2 is the only one I am aware of that made it part of the Design Philosophy of the game and it shows through in multiple aspects.

That may come from other developers not being quite as forthcoming with information as Anet however. Its hard to be sure.

Originally posted by Stx11

 

You come across as quite worked up or bitter about something.

If I've mis-interpreted your outlook I'm truly sorry.

You feel I'm "belittling" you over something?

My "last statement" in a previous post was "GW2 is a well-designed game" and you ripped me for it. I can only respond to what you actually write and not whatever thoughts or feelings you have in your head.

"GW2 is a well designed game" is an opinion.  Not a fact. If I or someone else disagrees it does not mean they have a poor outlook on gaming.

And don't turn this conversation around to make me look like the irrational one when you are the one who had a problem with my response to the OP's question.  This whole side conversation is your doing.

Originally posted by Amjoco
Gotta love it. Of course it's only BWEs we have played, but the entire time I played I had not one time seen a single curse word, a your momma joke, or anything like it. No chatter about other games and nothing negative about GW2 at all. It was a first for me in a beta not seeing any of this. I was part of the Tera beta and that was total WoW crossroads chatter. (nothing against Tera itself). Hopefully this is a more adult oriented mmorpg.

The reason you didn't see any cursing or general trolling was 2 reasons.

1. People were actually having fun and sucked into the game world, When you see people trolling chat & or being dicks it usually means they are bored and looking for kicks elsewhere than in the game world or with their character....

2. I think because this was a Pay to play beta (PrePerchase only) & no sub fee people may have been on a bit better behavior, I mean who the hell wants to get banned before the game goes live lol. Remember there is no sub fee in GW2 so people may be in the mindset , "Hey arenanet" isn't really making any extra dough after i purchase the game" . People may feel arenanet has a itchy trigger finger when it comes to perma bans.

Originally posted by grimal

Originally posted by Stx11

You come across as quite worked up or bitter about something.

If I've mis-interpreted your outlook I'm truly sorry.

You feel I'm "belittling" you over something?

My "last statement" in a previous post was "GW2 is a well-designed game" and you ripped me for it. I can only respond to what you actually write and not whatever thoughts or feelings you have in your head.

"GW2 is a well designed game" is an opinion.  Not a fact. If I or someone else disagrees it does not mean they have a poor outlook on gaming.

And don't turn this conversation around to make me look like the irrational one when you are the one who had a problem with my response to the OP's question.  This whole side conversation is your doing.

The "poor outlook on gaming" came from your expressed frustration over how SWTOR is treated on these forums. Sorry if I wasn't clearer on that.

As for "GW2 is a well-designed game" - well yes it's an opinion but it is a much more debatable one than "I like it" or "I think it's crap" don't you agree?

As I said I can give a whole list of reasons for why I am convinced that GW2 is a well-designed game. I can also provide my reasoning on why I believe that no game has combined or implemented gameplay features to encourage "friendly gameplay" in the way GW2 has.

You may disagree. That's fine. If you want to discuss it you should expect to be asked for your reasons or counter-arguments especially in a thread about it on a forum. If you don't want to discuss it why are you even posting?

Originally posted by Drachasor

Originally posted by immodium

It really doesn't change the fact that in most other MMO's you have to actually be sociable to do group content. And in some cases that does lead to friendship.

In GW2 they have taken that away. You do not have to be sociable to do DE's. Is that a good or bad thing, taking away the 'little' sociable aspect to grouping entirely? Will GW2 spawn players that find it unusual in newer games to actually be sociable to form groups for certain content?

We will have to wait and see.

 

Yes, you are not FORCED to be sociable.

You can choose to be however.  Honestly, making friends in a game isn't that hard.  It just takes some typing.  Now, granted, it would be more awesome with some sort of intelligent voice chat interface (that overcame the obvious problems), but still, you can type and make friends with people you are running around with.

Taken from GW2 manifesto:

It’s time to make MMORPGs more social.

How? Playing Coop and being social are two seperate things. GW2 is proving that. From what I gather GW2 is as sociable as going to the shops. We are all there Coop shopping, if I want to be sociable I can be. However, anyone rarely speaks.

Hows that making MMO's more sociable?

Well I've seen some of the "nice gw2 players" in this forum become extremely venomous and nasty in other game forums.. such as SWTOR...

So guys when you say GW2 is going to have an awesome community.... be aware that your community already has a bad element.. you don't see everyone's character when things are going well.

As the other guy said... if you guys really believe whats in this thread I would not bet in Vegas....

Originally posted by immodium

Originally posted by Drachasor

Originally posted by immodium

It really doesn't change the fact that in most other MMO's you have to actually be sociable to do group content. And in some cases that does lead to friendship.

In GW2 they have taken that away. You do not have to be sociable to do DE's. Is that a good or bad thing, taking away the 'little' sociable aspect to grouping entirely? Will GW2 spawn players that find it unusual in newer games to actually be sociable to form groups for certain content?

We will have to wait and see.

 

Yes, you are not FORCED to be sociable.

You can choose to be however.  Honestly, making friends in a game isn't that hard.  It just takes some typing.  Now, granted, it would be more awesome with some sort of intelligent voice chat interface (that overcame the obvious problems), but still, you can type and make friends with people you are running around with.

Taken from GW2 manifesto:

It’s time to make MMORPGs more social.

 

How? Playing Coop and being social are two seperate things. GW2 is proving that. From what I gather GW2 is as sociable as going to the shops. We are all there Coop shopping, if I want to be sociable I can be. However, anyone rarely speaks.

Hows that making MMO's more sociable?

This is it pretty much,sums up lots of thing,what happened to MMOs and and is part of the answer to the ultimate question.

its an illusion and it goes like this.

1.There was a time when people were social,looking for partys they searched people by talking,maybe someone had good attitude ,nice weapon,nice name etc.

2.some devs got an idea, f*ck that ,they made lfg tool,no more talking and walking.

3.next devs said .F*ck that tool,automatic groups = social.

now theres more people around but they are not people, just same like lots of companions on SWTOR.

Originally posted by Angier2758

Well I've seen some of the "nice gw2 players" in this forum become extremely venomous and nasty in other game forums.. such as SWTOR...

So guys when you say GW2 is going to have an awesome community.... be aware that your community already has a bad element.. you don't see everyone's character when things are going well.

As the other guy said... if you guys really believe whats in this thread I would not bet in Vegas....

Every game community of any noticeable size will have good and bad elements.

I'm sure certain GW2 Servers and possibly locales will develop reputations similar to Servers and locations in WoW and SWTOR just because of the number of people playing and the percentage of the community that are those WoW and SWTOR players.

At least the game itself has been designed to minimize griefing and competitive mechanics in PvE to a great degree and I expect ANet to monitor their game and community for further ways to improve things if they can.

I do know I'd much rather play a game that encourages others to Revive me than the opposite.

Originally posted by immodium

Originally posted by Thrashbarg

Originally posted by immodium

How is it anti-social to want to group up?

If anything, GW2 is being more anti-social than most other MMO games being released as you don't need to be sociable to group up. Actually, you don't need to group up for the DE's.

 

Your understanding of grouping comes from MMOs, that's totally understandable.

What you are missing is that in GW2 you are auto-grouped with everyone around you. Instead of having to actually be in a party with everyone to help them or get credit, that all just happens by proximity. It's not that you don't need to group up, it's that you are grouped up, this concept is so foreign to the MMO mindset burned in by the last decade of clones that it's going to take many people a long time to see it for what it is (if they ever do).

Clicking "join party" killing the same mobs and never chatting is no better than GW2's system, it's just another hoop to jump through for mechanical purposes. Having your icon on the left side of my screen doesn't make us friends, or mean that we will actually talk to each other.

Instead of looking for a party to chat with, look at everyone you see as party members. Use /say instead of /party and you can chat with them all! Magic!

It really doesn't change the fact that in most other MMO's you have to actually be sociable to do group content. And in some cases that does lead to friendship.

In GW2 they have taken that away. You do not have to be sociable to do DE's. Is that a good or bad thing, taking away the 'little' sociable aspect to grouping entirely? Will GW2 spawn players that find it unusual in newer games to actually be sociable to form groups for certain content?

We will have to wait and see.

 

No, you dont' have to be sociable to do group content. Using a group/raid/dungeon finder doesn't require ANY kind of social skill, just press a button, group up, finish the instance and forget you ever played with those guys.

In GW2 I found it a lot easier to socialize. Why? Because there is no NEED to group to do content, just find some people doing what you are doing and take it from there. It is up to the player to actually start a conversation and be sociable, that's not up to the game, I've played in instances and there was no "social" communication, just a few orders from the leader and that's it, group, do, forget. In GW2 you can stay with those people longer, doing much more content with them, progression your whole character together with others.

Insta-grouping allows people to play in a group without being forced to, it is certainly up to the players themselves to start a meaningful conversation that's beyond just "tactics".

Also, Guilds have so much potential in GW2

Originally posted by Kniknax

I realised recently that during my time in GW2 I had not get annoyed or pissed off by another player during PVE playtime at all (I didn't try PVP to my shame), which is (sad to say) pretty usual for me in most games. This got me to thinking about whether ArenaNet were actively trying to create a real friendly and fair environment within the game - which is probably a first.

Most if not all MMO's I have played have gameplay mechanics that allow for all sorts of annoyances - from players running in and stealing the freshly popped quest NPC, to the tank having the wrong gear for a dungeon and not telling you, to the level 80 running into town and killing all the quest NPCs, to being ganked by a guy 30 levels higher than you whilst out questing (repeatedly).

However, Guild Wars 2 has things to counter all of these - so they just dont ever happen. They have everyone getting a quest update who helped kill to the NPC, to removing the gear grind and making it skill based, to making everyone in an area the same level. In fact almost every annoyance in most MMO's seem to be countered by Guild Wars.

I can't think of another MMO that seems to do this - but I may be wrong (excluding Hello Kitty Online and Clone Wars - although I'm not so sure about Hello Kitty, it always looked a bit evil).

You might think of a good thing but it really is really bad.

Why do you not get annoyed or pissed?

1. the person won't respond back if you did show your pissyness as them.

Why won't he respond? because In GW2 nobody chats. Why does nobody chat? Because there is no need to cordinate with others! Why? its that because the DE's and heart quests are too easy.

I personally would rather have people getting mad and yelling at each other then nobody talking at all. I don't know about you but one of my favorite parts in mmo's is making new friends during the journey to the top. In GW2 I don't really see the need too.

I challenge you guys to come forth and say how many people you met in GW2 and talked with and became friends with? or just chatted with someone that you don't know.  (End of BWE events don't count)

Originally posted by Kniknax

I realised recently that during my time in GW2 I had not get annoyed or pissed off by another player during PVE playtime at all (I didn't try PVP to my shame), which is (sad to say) pretty usual for me in most games. This got me to thinking about whether ArenaNet were actively trying to create a real friendly and fair environment within the game - which is probably a first.

Most if not all MMO's I have played have gameplay mechanics that allow for all sorts of annoyances - from players running in and stealing the freshly popped quest NPC, to the tank having the wrong gear for a dungeon and not telling you, to the level 80 running into town and killing all the quest NPCs, to being ganked by a guy 30 levels higher than you whilst out questing (repeatedly).

However, Guild Wars 2 has things to counter all of these - so they just dont ever happen. They have everyone getting a quest update who helped kill to the NPC, to removing the gear grind and making it skill based, to making everyone in an area the same level. In fact almost every annoyance in most MMO's seem to be countered by Guild Wars.

I can't think of another MMO that seems to do this - but I may be wrong (excluding Hello Kitty Online and Clone Wars - although I'm not so sure about Hello Kitty, it always looked a bit evil).

Now you're getting a taste how MMO's were before you came to the genre with WoW. WoW ruined all of that when it came out, not to say it didn't bring any good things or that it isn't a good game, it just took away the good community we used to have.

To answer your question though, UO, DAoC, AC, AO, EQ, Shadowbane, SWG, FFIX, Saga of Ryzom, and CoX off the top of my head. Pretty much most, if not all, games that came out before WoW.

Originally posted by Xirik

Originally posted by Kniknax

I realised recently that during my time in GW2 I had not get annoyed or pissed off by another player during PVE playtime at all (I didn't try PVP to my shame), which is (sad to say) pretty usual for me in most games. This got me to thinking about whether ArenaNet were actively trying to create a real friendly and fair environment within the game - which is probably a first.

Most if not all MMO's I have played have gameplay mechanics that allow for all sorts of annoyances - from players running in and stealing the freshly popped quest NPC, to the tank having the wrong gear for a dungeon and not telling you, to the level 80 running into town and killing all the quest NPCs, to being ganked by a guy 30 levels higher than you whilst out questing (repeatedly).

However, Guild Wars 2 has things to counter all of these - so they just dont ever happen. They have everyone getting a quest update who helped kill to the NPC, to removing the gear grind and making it skill based, to making everyone in an area the same level. In fact almost every annoyance in most MMO's seem to be countered by Guild Wars.

I can't think of another MMO that seems to do this - but I may be wrong (excluding Hello Kitty Online and Clone Wars - although I'm not so sure about Hello Kitty, it always looked a bit evil).

You might think of a good thing but it really is really bad.

Why do you not get annoyed or pissed?

1. the person won't respond back if you did show your pissyness as them.

Why won't he respond? because In GW2 nobody chats. Why does nobody chat? Because there is no need to cordinate with others! Why? its that because the DE's and heart quests are too easy.

I personally would rather have people getting mad and yelling at each other then nobody talking at all. I don't know about you but one of my favorite parts in mmo's is making new friends during the journey to the top. In GW2 I don't really see the need too.

I challenge you guys to come forth and say how many people you met in GW2 and talked with and became friends with? or just chatted with someone that you don't know.  (End of BWE events don't count)

This is just false.... There is a lot of chat going on and lots of coordination for the higher difficulty DEs. What you are probably missing is that the game has only DEs and they aren't supposed to be like the group content in other games, they are "easy" for a reason, because if all DEs were "hard" some people wouldn't be able to finish even one of them. Don't compare all DEs with group content in other MMORPGs, there are the harder DEs you can easily compare them to.

Originally posted by BadSpock

I think the open/friendly non-compete nature of GW2 PvE is going to make it a very friendly and community driven experience... but a quiet one in public as people will really only spend time talking to other people if they are in their own guild chat.

I forsee general chats being a bit more ghostly than other MMOs.

You simply don't need to communicate as much to be effective in open world content - positive or negative?

But each server is likely to be different.

2 words for you... Barrens Chat

General chat isn't going anywhere. ;)

I can just wait for the latest iteration of the Murlock game... "Kraits on a plane", anyone?

Originally posted by seridan

No, you dont' have to be sociable to do group content. Using a group/raid/dungeon finder doesn't require ANY kind of social skill, just press a button, group up, finish the instance and forget you ever played with those guys.

In GW2 I found it a lot easier to socialize. Why? Because there is no NEED to group to do content, just find some people doing what you are doing and take it from there. It is up to the player to actually start a conversation and be sociable, that's not up to the game, I've played in instances and there was no "social" communication, just a few orders from the leader and that's it, group, do, forget. In GW2 you can stay with those people longer, doing much more content with them, progression your whole character together with others.

Insta-grouping allows people to play in a group without being forced to, it is certainly up to the players themselves to start a meaningful conversation that's beyond just "tactics".

Also, Guilds have so much potential in GW2

TBH, I have never played a game with a group/dungeon/raid finder, and I probably wouldn't use one.

Everything mentioned in your second paragraph can be done in most other MMO's if your sociable. I agree it's upto the player to be sociable not the developers. So why does ANET state they are making a more social MMO? They are not. They are making a more Cooperative MMO, but not social.

IMO what ANET is doing with automatic grouping is a step backwards in encouraging gamers to be sociable. They have made it even easier than using a dungeon/group/raid finder to group up.

It's not ANET's fault its how MMO's have to go as most gamers don't like to be sociable. GW2 is going in the same direction, catering for the anti-social solo'er.

I think that Anet definately tried to create a friendly atmosphere, but I also worry that we're going to see alot of "WoW runs sooooo much better on my system, this game is poorly optimized" or "TERA's combat is superior to this, I'm only here because my buddy plays, QQ" or "doesn't this game have any puzzles that you have to use google to figure out?"

Originally posted by seridan

Originally posted by Xirik

Originally posted by Kniknax

I realised recently that during my time in GW2 I had not get annoyed or pissed off by another player during PVE playtime at all (I didn't try PVP to my shame), which is (sad to say) pretty usual for me in most games. This got me to thinking about whether ArenaNet were actively trying to create a real friendly and fair environment within the game - which is probably a first.

Most if not all MMO's I have played have gameplay mechanics that allow for all sorts of annoyances - from players running in and stealing the freshly popped quest NPC, to the tank having the wrong gear for a dungeon and not telling you, to the level 80 running into town and killing all the quest NPCs, to being ganked by a guy 30 levels higher than you whilst out questing (repeatedly).

However, Guild Wars 2 has things to counter all of these - so they just dont ever happen. They have everyone getting a quest update who helped kill to the NPC, to removing the gear grind and making it skill based, to making everyone in an area the same level. In fact almost every annoyance in most MMO's seem to be countered by Guild Wars.

I can't think of another MMO that seems to do this - but I may be wrong (excluding Hello Kitty Online and Clone Wars - although I'm not so sure about Hello Kitty, it always looked a bit evil).

You might think of a good thing but it really is really bad.

Why do you not get annoyed or pissed?

1. the person won't respond back if you did show your pissyness as them.

Why won't he respond? because In GW2 nobody chats. Why does nobody chat? Because there is no need to cordinate with others! Why? its that because the DE's and heart quests are too easy.

I personally would rather have people getting mad and yelling at each other then nobody talking at all. I don't know about you but one of my favorite parts in mmo's is making new friends during the journey to the top. In GW2 I don't really see the need too.

I challenge you guys to come forth and say how many people you met in GW2 and talked with and became friends with? or just chatted with someone that you don't know.  (End of BWE events don't count)

This is just false.... There is a lot of chat going on and lots of coordination for the higher difficulty DEs. What you are probably missing is that the game has only DEs and they aren't supposed to be like the group content in other games, they are "easy" for a reason, because if all DEs were "hard" some people wouldn't be able to finish even one of them. Don't compare all DEs with group content in other MMORPGs, there are the harder DEs you can easily compare them to.

There are higher difficult DE's? They were all the same to me. Easy. No cordination.

Guess I just made your whole point false.

I'm not surprised at the grumbling in this thread, but unfortunately the people doing it don't quite understand something incredibly simple...... the people on these forums that don't like GW2 or its fans probably aren't going to be playing, thus - why would people not get along, especially for some stupid reasons I've seen here like "if you don't say GW2 is the best game ever"?

Seriously... if you are the type who complains about the "hype" or the "bad community" or the concept that "It's just Rifts with a different name", then you'll be playing something else, you won't be trolling the community unless you like spending $60 just to be an idiot.  There won't be these stupid forum arguments about how so and so game is better, people will be playing the game, not arguing.  The forum PvP will stay here.  As much as it pisses some of you off, people will be having fun for once.  Get over it and stop equating the GW2 community in-game with forumers you've had arguments with.  The same type of crap won't be happening there.