Is it really that MMO companies have emphasized casual and solo-friendly content to the point they have changed the average gamers’ perception of what an MMO is, or is it the other way around that gamers have changed their wants and desires and MMO companies are merely giving players what they want? 

I see a lot of gamers wax nostalgic about the “good old days” of MMOs, like UO, EQ, etc.  About how those games were group oriented and required dedication and commitment.  They lament how now days MMOs are all casual and solo friendly and how you rarely even need other players to accomplish anything.

More often than not I see people pointing the finger at games like WoW for “dumbing-down” MMOs.  They point out how WoW caters to casuals and this brought a huge influx of new gamers to MMOs, gamers who weren’t interested in the grind and dedication of the older style MMOs.

I wonder if it’s actually the opposite, that companies like Blizzard, just figured out earlier that as the population of gamers gets older and older, they don’t have the time to spend for long hours at a time playing a game.  Most studies seem to put the average age of gamers now at the mid-30s.

People are continuing to play video games as they grow older and those gamers who were in their teens or 20’s with limited responsibilities, and more free time, are now in their 30s and early 40s and now they have full-time jobs, are married, have kids, etc.  Obviously this older group of gamers also has more disposable income they can use to play games, and seeing as how they have more limited time, perhaps it’s just that companies understand they need to make these games to accommodate the life-styles of these older gamers.

So I ask you, is it really that MMO companies are deciding they need to make these games casual and solo-friendly and we are swept along, or is it that they are making the games this way because of the large proportion of older gamers who are demanding these features?

It's a combination of both.

One the one hand, we're older.

On the other hand, gaming is not a mere hobby anymore. It has become a billion/million dollar industry, a matter of life and death. Making games has revolved around making a fun game ,up till a few years ago. These days, it's about milking every penny out for big profit.

MMO have definitely changed. My first MMO was Everquest, there were a number of specific classes that could solo and all the rest could not after the first few levels.

My warrior was lvl 20, and at that point, soloing was over, I would die literally on every mob, I got so frustrated that I asked other people why I kept dying, and they told me I could no longer solo and the only way to progress was to group wtih other people from now on.

MMo ihn that sense changed, and they also changed in terms of community, both are related, if you no longer depend on other people, there is no reason for you to behave in a friendly or respectable manner towards others, and I believe it ends up hurting the community.

(everquest changed too mind you, it was a completely different game when I left versus when I started)

I don't think I have changed, although I prefer action MMO but they lack a good community often, but I have alwayws enjoyed action games.

I just want a virtual world to live in. Earth is rubbish.

I'm well aware I'm in the minority. :)

Originally posted by Grimlock426

I wonder if it’s actually the opposite, that companies like Blizzard, just figured out earlier that as the population of gamers gets older and older, they don’t have the time to spend for long hours at a time playing a game.  Most studies seem to put the average age of gamers now at the mid-30s.

It's not. The vast majority of Blizzard's core audience were new to MMOs, and they were aiming at such new casual players, not the veterans who are STILL playing games like EQ and DAoC.

MMOs have changed, not the players.

Originally posted by immodium

I just want a virtual world to live in. Earth is rubbish.

 

I'm well aware I'm in the minority. :)

Not really. There were many millions of people who felt the same pre 2004.

If the past 7 or so AAA MMO launches are anything to go by... games like SWTOR and TSW and Rift and WAR and all the other casual WoW clones fail and merge servers almost right away... Barely keeping alive with 200k.

I'd say there's currently a much bigger audience hoping for a virtual world. It's a totally untapped market and would yield more long term subscribers. It's moronic NOT to aim for this crowd.

Originally posted by Tibernicus

Originally posted by Grimlock426

I wonder if it’s actually the opposite, that companies like Blizzard, just figured out earlier that as the population of gamers gets older and older, they don’t have the time to spend for long hours at a time playing a game.  Most studies seem to put the average age of gamers now at the mid-30s.

It's not. The vast majority of Blizzard's core audience were new to MMOs, and they were aiming at such new casual players, not the veterans who are STILL playing games like EQ and DAoC.

 

MMOs have changed, not the players.

I'll give you that perhaps when WoW launched in 2004 that Blizzard was just aiming at new to MMO players, but what about now in 2012?  We're on the brink of the next "revolutionary" MMO, GW2 and the one that is the most casual/solo-friendly of all.  Could it be that Arenanet realizes that there are a lot more of us old-farts around who still want to game and still want to play MMOs, but just don't have the time to play an EQ-style game?

From where I sit, it has nothing to do with age.  I was old when MMO's were born, and now I'm even older.

I actually have more time and fewer family demands than I did 10 years ago when I started so I'm in sort of an opposite curve from most other gamers.

The games most defintitely changed, when they first came out many people wouldn't play them because of their group centric, time sink heavy design.  I recall friends who I introduced to them turning them down because they didn't have the time or desire to live in a virtual worlds.

Game companies figured out there was a huge, untapped market, much larger than the original player base that wanted more causal games, with less time sinks, more quick in and out game play, and more catering to solo play vs grouping.

From a business standpoint they were right, and they've delivered the sort of MMO's that the market is wanting to buy.

One element they seemed to have misfired on is long term player/subscription retention, doesn't seem practical with today's designs/player base so we're seeing alternate business models being employed to adjust to the changing landscape.

The casual player base was always there, just took the MMO Dev's time to figure out what the majority wanted and cater to it.

Originally posted by Kyleran

From where I sit, it has nothing to do with age.  I was old when MMO's were born, and now I'm even older.

I actually have more time and fewer family demands than I did 10 years ago when I started so I'm in sort of an opposite curve from most other gamers.

The games most defintitely changed, when they first came out many people wouldn't play them because of their group centric, time sink heavy design.  I recall friends who I introduced to them turning them down because they didn't have the time or desire to live in a virtual worlds.

Game companies figured out there was a huge, untapped market, much larger than the original player base that wanted more causal games, with less time sinks, more quick in and out game play, and more catering to solo play vs grouping.

From a business standpoint they were right, and they've delivered the sort of MMO's that the market is wanting to buy.

One element they seemed to have misfired on is long term player/subscription retention, doesn't seem practical with today's designs/player base so we're seeing alternate business models being employed to adjust to the changing landscape.

The casual player base was always there, just took the MMO Dev's time to figure out what the majority wanted and cater to it.

 

Kyleran just explained everything nicely and I will just QFT.

Originally posted by Grimlock426

Originally posted by Tibernicus

Originally posted by Grimlock426

I wonder if it’s actually the opposite, that companies like Blizzard, just figured out earlier that as the population of gamers gets older and older, they don’t have the time to spend for long hours at a time playing a game.  Most studies seem to put the average age of gamers now at the mid-30s.

It's not. The vast majority of Blizzard's core audience were new to MMOs, and they were aiming at such new casual players, not the veterans who are STILL playing games like EQ and DAoC.

 

MMOs have changed, not the players.

I'll give you that perhaps when WoW launched in 2004 that Blizzard was just aiming at new to MMO players, but what about now in 2012?  We're on the brink of the next "revolutionary" MMO, GW2 and the one that is the most casual/solo-friendly of all.  Could it be that Arenanet realizes that there are a lot more of us old-farts around who still want to game and still want to play MMOs, but just don't have the time to play an EQ-style game?

No, it's much more likely that they realize there's a ton more casual gamers than hardcore gamers. It doesn't matter if you're young or old. My playstyle has gotten more hardcore as I've gotten older.

It's just very simple. There's more casual gamers than not.

Originally posted by Kyleran

From where I sit, it has nothing to do with age.  I was old when MMO's were born, and now I'm even older.

I actually have more time and fewer family demands than I did 10 years ago when I started so I'm in sort of an opposite curve from most other gamers.

The games most defintitely changed, when they first came out many people wouldn't play them because of their group centric, time sink heavy design.  I recall friends who I introduced to them turning them down because they didn't have the time or desire to live in a virtual worlds.

Game companies figured out there was a huge, untapped market, much larger than the original player base that wanted more causal games, with less time sinks, more quick in and out game play, and more catering to solo play vs grouping.

From a business standpoint they were right, and they've delivered the sort of MMO's that the market is wanting to buy.

One element they seemed to have misfired on is long term player/subscription retention, doesn't seem practical with today's designs/player base so we're seeing alternate business models being employed to adjust to the changing landscape.

The casual player base was always there, just took the MMO Dev's time to figure out what the majority wanted and cater to it.

 

This.

This question has been around the block a bit but it's a good one. And yes, it's both.

Games taught us how to game in a lot of ways. We were quick to plug in and consume whatever was out there. Now we are pickier and have developed our preferences. Because of those preferences, we have become niche gamers. And for gaming companies to continue to make money, they will have to adapt and make choices about which gamers to solicit.

Some gaming companies are willing to take risks, and this is likely where the next iteration of games will arise. It's not as comfy as what we know and love, but it will be cool and fun and addicting as ever.

Originally posted by Tibernicus

Originally posted by Grimlock426

I wonder if it’s actually the opposite, that companies like Blizzard, just figured out earlier that as the population of gamers gets older and older, they don’t have the time to spend for long hours at a time playing a game.  Most studies seem to put the average age of gamers now at the mid-30s.

It's not. The vast majority of Blizzard's core audience were new to MMOs, and they were aiming at such new casual players, not the veterans who are STILL playing games like EQ and DAoC.

 

MMOs have changed, not the players.

So you are saying you haven't learned anything in that time that has changed any aspect of your thinking process? 

Everyone is changing.

Games are changing.

Originally posted by Jaedor

This question has been around the block a bit but it's a good one.

Not really. It's extremely obvious that the games have changed.

In terms of how the question was phrased "is it x or is it y". It is y, the games that have changed, more than the players. We're not "remembering differently", the games are just different.

---

Originally posted by Grimlock426
Is it really that MMO companies have emphasized casual and solo-friendly content to the point they have changed the average gamers’ perception of what an MMO is, or is it the other way around that gamers have changed their wants and desires and MMO companies are merely giving players what they want?

---

In a sense, what many of the new players want now is the more casual friendly games that flood the market today. In another sense, there are still old timers that desire the old games.

As far as time commitments are concerned and older players growing older, it is a matter of priority. Gaming is a hobby. As are many other things in one's life. How does one manage an afternoon on the golf course or spend an evening playing pool at the local pub? How does one sequester themselves away to build a model ship or a piece of furniture? How does one find time to get any reading done or to spend a few hours at the movie theater? It is a matter of making the time needed to do these things. Same with a game. If a game is fun enough, people tend to make the time to play it.

Originally posted by xr00t3dx
This is freash. Not really. The question you asked us has been asked 1000 times on this very forum. Hit that search button and you can spend hours getting the answer you want.

Your answer is pretty fresh also. I suppose every conceivable topic has been discussed on these forums at one time or another. So, per your rigid topic rule, no new topic should be created because it's already been done. Am I reading it right?

I'd prefer a fresh discussion, with new and returning contributors to the discussion rather than maintaining a 200 page topic that nobody reads.

I hate that popular topics are relegated to stickies and new ones related to that topic are quickly locked just because some people and mods seem to think that the topic has been discussed to death. Well, maybe it has "to them" but not to everyone.

100 hours to reach level cap, being given a surplus of questing gear to make levelling easy, removal of multiplayer questing in favour of soloquesting. All dungeons being instanced, dungeons being made to be completed in 15-60 minutes, 10-man raidsize, dungeons getting multiple difficulties, dungeon finder being added with bonuses so that people don't have to get to know others.

As a gamer I have also changed, I want more complex combat, I want better questing, I demand proper UI and I want gameworlds that feel like worlds and not a lobby and yet there are games that can't even launch with a working chat or capability of changing channel colors.

Tab-target combat with generic kill-quests and a repetition of same few dungeons at the end wont be enough to entertain me anymore.

I certainly changed.

Back in the UO/EQ days .. a virtual world sounds like a good idea. BTW, i have a year in EQ, i realize a true VW does not make a good game. It is too much like work.

Now i play games for the fun entertainment value, and would be appalled if anyone suggest i should live in a game. I have a life.  A raiding schedule a few nites a week is already too much. I have friends (online & off). I do not want to spend time to keep track of another dozen online friends.

I realize there is no reason to spend all my time in ONE game, no matter how good it is, when i can play a hundred .. humans are naturally variety-seeking.

I think it could pointed out that mmorpgs life-cycles reveal an interesting "mini-trend":

The FINITE life-cycle of most MMOs suggests they are failing to be long-term virtual worlds which maintain their interest for the players. I think that is perhaps #1 Mission Statement for a virtual world, to consider it being worth any one player investing their time into that avatar and that virtual world?

Imagine a new mmorpg comes out and it has a short rise and fall pattern. Now it's competing against many other choices which do the same thing = None of them leave a player looking for a true mmorpg satisfied?

Verdict: It's the MMORPGs, not the players.