It's going F2P because it is too crappy of a game to make money. F2P allows you to have less people playing but with a greater income due to the fact F2P play isn't free at all. The people that do play and buy digital garbage spend much more than the average sub per month.

Face the facts. They are making games too linear, too easy, to instanced, and too solo without hardly any need to play with others now days. You mind as well labeled this garbage of a game, a single player game with a multiplayer component. No one wants to pay monthly for that. Maybe F2P will keep this garbage can rolling just like the other MMOs that use this scam of a model to keep their garbage rolling (looking at you SOE and Turbine).

Originally posted by Drainage
The mentality of this market is ridiculous.  Most people spend 20 times $15 a month going out to eat.  A MMO sub is the best entertainment value in the world.  One movie can be $15 in some markets.  Don't forget to add the drink and popcorn to double the price.  

I am so sick of this arguement.

If something is not worth $15/mo, it is not worth $15 a month. And let us not forget it the box price as well. So you are really talking $50-$60 for most people.

For that same amount of money, you could get several months of Nexflix, Gamefly, Pandora,  a bunch of Redbox movies, or several games on sale at Steam or GG.

So even in terms of "relative value" TOR does not stack up.

And even all that is beside the point. Even tho for many people (myself included) $50-$60 and/or $15 mo is not a whole lot of money, my free time is also limited and thus valuable to me, even more than the money.

And TOR is not worth my time, either.

Originally posted by Terranah

 Of course people will take away all the wrong conclusions from this debacle.  That's why we have failure after failure.  It's kinda like those people who make the same mistakes in their lives over and over.  It's dysfunction, and no matter how reasoned your arguements, the wrong decisions will continue to be made because all the wrong people are making those decisions.

 

Here's an analogy.  For those who can not follow an analogy, or metaphors or similies, just move along to the next post.

 

Imagine you are novelist well known for writing science fiction.  You have a wide fan base and are loved by your loyal fans.  Along comes your publisher and asks you to write a romance novel.  Since you are such a talented writer and have so many fans who buy your books you think, sure why not.  So you proceed to write a romance novel, but your novel does not contain any romance at all.  Your edgy and innovative that way.  

 

The publisher markets it as the greatest romance ever told.  Your book releases, all your fans buy it and lots of romance  fans too.  But your old fans don't like it because it's not like your other stuff, and the romance fans don't like it because there's no romance.  Does that mean the romance genre is doomed.  No.  It means you were arrogant for thinking you could redefine something much bigger than you.  

 

MMORPG is not just a feature set.  It's an idea and concept that is bigger than Bioware or EA or any developer.  It's an idea that is even bigger than the gamers that play these games.

 

That's why, inspite of all the flaws of the early mmos the genre flourished.  It's because the idea of the mmo, of millions of people coming together in a virtual space conceived by human imagination is so powerful.  Daydreaming, the playground of the mind was always a solo affair; but the mmo gives us the ability to play with others in a virtual setting.  The concept resonates within the collective subconcious, even if most people are incapable of realizing it.  

 

That is the strength of the mmo, and when you disrespect that powerful idea you will be put in your place no matter how big you are.

 

My dear, this was simply awesome.   Thank you.

Originally posted by Burntvet

Originally posted by Drainage
The mentality of this market is ridiculous.  Most people spend 20 times $15 a month going out to eat.  A MMO sub is the best entertainment value in the world.  One movie can be $15 in some markets.  Don't forget to add the drink and popcorn to double the price.  

I am so sick of this arguement.

If something is not worth $15/mo, it is not worth $15 a month. And let us not forget it the box price as well. So you are really talking $50-$60 for most people.

For that same amount of money, you could get several months of Nexflix, Gamefly, Pandora,  a bunch of Redbox movies, or several games on sale at Steam or GG.

So even in terms of "relative value" TOR does not stack up.

 

And even all that is beside the point. Even tho for many people (myself included) $50-$60 and/or $15 mo is not a whole lot of money, my free time is also limited and thus valuable to me, even more than the money.

And TOR is not worth my time, either.

 

 

 

So, a meal at a mediocre restaurant is worth more than a month of entertainment?  If you buy a box and each expansion takes two years, you are still talking 17.50 a month.  That person would pay less however, because they would buy at least 3 months at a time.  

The $15 is just a number that was dictated in the industry years ago and due to inflation it  is worth far less to the company than when subs started.  

Originally posted by Whiskey_Sam
Subscription games don't fail because people don't like paying subscriptions; they fail because people don't think they are worth the subscription price. 

   I gladly pay a subscription fee if the mmo is a good one. I'd much rather pay a sub fee than have cash shops, because I usually end up spending a lot less yearly with a subscription.

Originally posted by Tayah

Originally posted by Whiskey_Sam
Subscription games don't fail because people don't like paying subscriptions; they fail because people don't think they are worth the subscription price. 

   I gladly pay a subscription fee if the mmo is a good one. I'd much rather pay a sub fee than have cash shops, because I usually end up spending a lot less yearly with a subscription.

i think the sub price is too cheap, as dictated by WoW.   When something costs so little, people don't take it seriously.  

Blizzard knows the product is worth more, but they like keeping the price down.  

Originally posted by Drainage

Originally posted by Burntvet

Originally posted by Drainage
The mentality of this market is ridiculous.  Most people spend 20 times $15 a month going out to eat.  A MMO sub is the best entertainment value in the world.  One movie can be $15 in some markets.  Don't forget to add the drink and popcorn to double the price.  

I am so sick of this arguement.

If something is not worth $15/mo, it is not worth $15 a month. And let us not forget it the box price as well. So you are really talking $50-$60 for most people.

For that same amount of money, you could get several months of Nexflix, Gamefly, Pandora,  a bunch of Redbox movies, or several games on sale at Steam or GG.

So even in terms of "relative value" TOR does not stack up.

 

And even all that is beside the point. Even tho for many people (myself included) $50-$60 and/or $15 mo is not a whole lot of money, my free time is also limited and thus valuable to me, even more than the money.

And TOR is not worth my time, either.

 

 

 

So, a meal at a mediocre restaurant is worth more than a month of entertainment?  If you buy a box and each expansion takes two years, you are still talking 17.50 a month.  That person would pay less however, because they would buy at least 3 months at a time.  

The $15 is just a number that was dictated in the industry years ago and due to inflation it  is worth far less to the company than when subs started.  

 

 

 

 

 

The other side of it is that bandwidth and servers costs are less than 10% of what they were in the old days when the $15/mo pricepoint for subs was established. Those things were a MAJOR expense in running an MMO back then, and now, they are practically nothing. (And thus B2P/F2P games can run)
 

So even tho that $15 is worth less than 10 years ago, the expenses of running an MMO after launch has declined to the point that the profit from each paying sub is higher, a LOT higher then the loss to inflation. on the order of 300% more profitable. (Several devs have talked about this at various sites.

But all of that is beside the point: $15/mo is too damn much when the game stinks, i.e. what we have with TOR once people finish leveling. So it is irrelevant whether it is expensive or cheap, it is straight up not worth it.

(And frankly, I get more extertainment value from nexflix/Pandora which is only slightly more than $15/mo together.)