Originally posted by Goll25

The only reason I am willing to deal with this fact, is because I haven't had any meaningful world pvp in ages. Also because it pushed other things to do out in the world, and still does have massive pvp. 

 

My problem with it though is, their really isn't anything more laid back and fun for a pvp player to do then start some turf wars with a group of players in the open world! It's just that spontaneous feeling, so fun. It is way more dynamic then any of these pve events they plan on having, just because it is a truely random event. It also can form a tight knit community, and rivalries that you just don't see anymore =/. Ah well! It's a dead playstyle at best :(.

I do not think it is a dead play style.   It definitely is not something that you see many games made for.  That's because it is a "niche" portion of the MMO player base that it appeals to, currently.  But the word currently is the key.    

The problem is that a large portion of current MMO players like Theme Parks and they like not being "required" to team up just to play for a little while.  Those two preferences just don't line up well with a properly done open world PvP game.   

But, I think a well done open world pvp game, that nails everything properly and has good production values has the potential to draw a whole lot of NEW players into the MMO genre.  FPS games are very popular and alot of them are very teamwork/clan oriented.  It shows there are a lot of players that like the concept, which essentially is the same as open world PvP on many levels.

I think it is just a matter of time before some developers do it right and do it so well that an open world PvP game comes along that delivers and is successful.   It is worth watching the various MMOFPS games in development right now.  If one of them succeeds and is good enough it could serve as a gateway to introducing the idea of open world PvP MMOs to those gamers.  If successful on a grand scale, quality MMOs with an open world PvP focus are right around the corner.

Originally posted by Jagarid

Originally posted by Goll25
 

I do not think it is a dead play style.   It definitely is not something that you see many games made for.  That's because it is a "niche" portion of the MMO player base that it appeals to, currently.  But the word currently is the key.    

It is definately a "niche" market and most MMO companies have finally realized this and so they are starting to change how they are marketing MMOs now.

I beleive they are finally learning where the real money comes from and so are actually pursuing this money.

Originally posted by dyermaker714
GW2 looks incredible to me on all fronts except for one. From what I can tell there is no open world PvP. Now I know (or at least I think I know) that there is some form of non instanced PvP, however, for me, world PvP means being able to traverse through the world with the option to attack any enemy player i see and vice versa. There's nothing more thrilling than getting the jump on someone out in the world or them jumping you and having to think on your feet to survive the attack. This is the greatest fun I take from playing mmos aside from making my character more powerful. Can anyone shed some light on this subject for me or elaborate on exactly how PvP works in gw2 as well as share your thoughts? Thanks -Dyer

Sadly, the scenario you describe is only 0,001% of all so called "world pvp". The rest is just ganking high level on lowbies or spawn camping or 10vs1.

Originally posted by mazut

Originally posted by dyermaker714
GW2 looks incredible to me on all fronts except for one. From what I can tell there is no open world PvP. Now I know (or at least I think I know) that there is some form of non instanced PvP, however, for me, world PvP means being able to traverse through the world with the option to attack any enemy player i see and vice versa. There's nothing more thrilling than getting the jump on someone out in the world or them jumping you and having to think on your feet to survive the attack. This is the greatest fun I take from playing mmos aside from making my character more powerful. Can anyone shed some light on this subject for me or elaborate on exactly how PvP works in gw2 as well as share your thoughts? Thanks -Dyer

Sadly, the scenario you describe is only 0,001% of all so called "world pvp". The rest is just ganking high level on lowbies or spawn camping or 10vs1.

This ^.

In my experience, even in the best PvP games, this would not happen very often. Most of the time when it did happen it would only be fun for the first encounter, and then quickly devolve into an endless loop of revenge kills, corpse camping, etc. Gets old fast. Honestly, when it comes to world PvP, I've only ever enjoyed games like Ultima that actually had a decent Outlaw system. I had more fun banding together w/ friends and trying to hunt whomever the latest 'notorious PKer' was for the day. Was much more fun imho.

Maybe it's just me, but I've never been a big fan of the gank-heavy PvP style. While there is some skill involved, it always seemed to come down to who hit first / who had the most disposable income. Even dueling got old in a lot of games, I enjoy more tactical 'world pvp'.

Originally posted by mazut

Originally posted by dyermaker714
GW2 looks incredible to me on all fronts except for one. From what I can tell there is no open world PvP. Now I know (or at least I think I know) that there is some form of non instanced PvP, however, for me, world PvP means being able to traverse through the world with the option to attack any enemy player i see and vice versa. There's nothing more thrilling than getting the jump on someone out in the world or them jumping you and having to think on your feet to survive the attack. This is the greatest fun I take from playing mmos aside from making my character more powerful. Can anyone shed some light on this subject for me or elaborate on exactly how PvP works in gw2 as well as share your thoughts? Thanks -Dyer

Sadly, the scenario you describe is only 0,001% of all so called "world pvp". The rest is just ganking high level on lowbies or spawn camping or 10vs1.

A high level player won't waste his time ganking low level random players(players that are not at war with his guild(or clan)), because his karma will increase montrously and he will need to kill tons of monters to clean his karma, and the risk of being pk is that any other player can kill him and loot his items. High level players that belong to big clans will need to help his guild mates and fight enemy clans(anoter big guild with high level players that is at war with his clan), so as both clans are at war, they can kill each other without becoming pk, they will fight for world bosses, recouces and politics.

Don't compare a owpvp with a decent clan war-pk system with a garbage game like WoW, where you can gank random newbies without any penality to you.

Originally posted by Prenho

Originally posted by mazut

Originally posted by dyermaker714
GW2 looks incredible to me on all fronts except for one. From what I can tell there is no open world PvP. Now I know (or at least I think I know) that there is some form of non instanced PvP, however, for me, world PvP means being able to traverse through the world with the option to attack any enemy player i see and vice versa. There's nothing more thrilling than getting the jump on someone out in the world or them jumping you and having to think on your feet to survive the attack. This is the greatest fun I take from playing mmos aside from making my character more powerful. Can anyone shed some light on this subject for me or elaborate on exactly how PvP works in gw2 as well as share your thoughts? Thanks -Dyer

Sadly, the scenario you describe is only 0,001% of all so called "world pvp". The rest is just ganking high level on lowbies or spawn camping or 10vs1.

A high level player won't waste his time ganking low level random players(players that are not at war with his guild(or clan)), because his karma will increase montrously and he will need to kill tons of monters to clean his karma, and the risk of being pk is that any other palyer can kill him and loot his items. High level players that belong to big clans will need to help his guild mates and fight enemy clans(anoter big guild with high level players that is at war with his clan), so as both clans are at war, they can kill each other without becoming pk, they will fight for world bosses, recouces and politics.

 

Don't compare a owpvp with a decent clan war-pk system with a garbage game like WoW, where you can gank random newbies without any penality to you.

Oh, that deluded romanticists :) Also where did you see me comparing it to wow? o.O

Originally posted by mazut

Originally posted by Prenho

Originally posted by mazut

Originally posted by dyermaker714
GW2 looks incredible to me on all fronts except for one. From what I can tell there is no open world PvP. Now I know (or at least I think I know) that there is some form of non instanced PvP, however, for me, world PvP means being able to traverse through the world with the option to attack any enemy player i see and vice versa. There's nothing more thrilling than getting the jump on someone out in the world or them jumping you and having to think on your feet to survive the attack. This is the greatest fun I take from playing mmos aside from making my character more powerful. Can anyone shed some light on this subject for me or elaborate on exactly how PvP works in gw2 as well as share your thoughts? Thanks -Dyer

Sadly, the scenario you describe is only 0,001% of all so called "world pvp". The rest is just ganking high level on lowbies or spawn camping or 10vs1.

A high level player won't waste his time ganking low level random players(players that are not at war with his guild(or clan)), because his karma will increase montrously and he will need to kill tons of monters to clean his karma, and the risk of being pk is that any other palyer can kill him and loot his items. High level players that belong to big clans will need to help his guild mates and fight enemy clans(anoter big guild with high level players that is at war with his clan), so as both clans are at war, they can kill each other without becoming pk, they will fight for world bosses, recouces and politics.

 

Don't compare a owpvp with a decent clan war-pk system with a garbage game like WoW, where you can gank random newbies without any penality to you.

Oh, that deluded romanticists :) Also where did you see me comparing it to wow? o.O

I took wow as an example, but the lack of a rule for pk players in MMOs since WOW made people to avoid owpvp, because they think that it is just radom high level players ganking low level players without any reason, and without any penality for them. It has made people go to games where pvp is separated from pve.

You can gank random neutral players(as I said in my post about the system of Lineage on the first page) but there will be consequences, you will become pk, so you can't enter cities or talk to npcs if you have karma, you need to kill monsters of your level until you turn to normal state again, but if you die with karma you will drop items.

Originally posted by dyermaker714
GW2 looks incredible to me on all fronts except for one. From what I can tell there is no open world PvP. Now I know (or at least I think I know) that there is some form of non instanced PvP, however, for me, world PvP means being able to traverse through the world with the option to attack any enemy player i see and vice versa. There's nothing more thrilling than getting the jump on someone out in the world or them jumping you and having to think on your feet to survive the attack. This is the greatest fun I take from playing mmos aside from making my character more powerful. Can anyone shed some light on this subject for me or elaborate on exactly how PvP works in gw2 as well as share your thoughts? Thanks -Dyer

I don't think a lot of people would agree with you. That is just..not a socially acceptable behavior. It's like when you're minding your own business driving to work in the morning, then some random jackass ram his car into yours..ON PURPOSE! Sure, he gets the insurance bill, but it causes you to miss your important meeting.

Get my point? It's not fun and it's not socially acceptable and it's very immature to think that it is acceptable.

Originally posted by lightblade

Originally posted by dyermaker714
GW2 looks incredible to me on all fronts except for one. From what I can tell there is no open world PvP. Now I know (or at least I think I know) that there is some form of non instanced PvP, however, for me, world PvP means being able to traverse through the world with the option to attack any enemy player i see and vice versa. There's nothing more thrilling than getting the jump on someone out in the world or them jumping you and having to think on your feet to survive the attack. This is the greatest fun I take from playing mmos aside from making my character more powerful. Can anyone shed some light on this subject for me or elaborate on exactly how PvP works in gw2 as well as share your thoughts? Thanks -Dyer

I don't think a lot of people would agree with you. That is just..not a socially acceptable behavior. It's like when you're minding your own business driving to work in the morning, then some random jackass ram his car into yours..ON PURPOSE! Sure, he gets the insurance bill, but it causes you to miss your important meeting.

Get my point? It's not fun and it's not socially acceptable and it's very immature to think that it is acceptable.

that is a really bad example because you forgot the part about it being a video game about war.  I agree with dyermaker714 and find it more thrilling with the possibliity of getting attacked.   computer AI is predictable and other players are not and that dynamic can make open world pvp very thrilling.  just because it is not fun for you does not mean other people don't find it fun.  it is very immature to think everyone thinks the same way you do.

Originally posted by lightblade

 

I don't think a lot of people would agree with you. That is just..not a socially acceptable behavior. It's like when you're minding your own business driving to work in the morning, then some random jackass ram his car into yours..ON PURPOSE! Sure, he gets the insurance bill, but it causes you to miss your important meeting.

Get my point? It's not fun and it's not socially acceptable and it's very immature to think that it is acceptable.

no its not really at all like attempted vehicular homicide.  on this i doubt many will agree with you.

fighting other players in games has been socially acceptable since at least the 6th century AD.  I can source that far back, i would be willing to bet others could source much, much further.

wikipedia's chess entry can't be too far off: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_chess

as far as video game competition being socially acceptable.. a version of pong was created in the 50s that unless i'm mistaken, was fully pvp capable and nobody found it socially unacceptable.

Originally posted by Ramanadjinn

Originally posted by lightblade

 

I don't think a lot of people would agree with you. That is just..not a socially acceptable behavior. It's like when you're minding your own business driving to work in the morning, then some random jackass ram his car into yours..ON PURPOSE! Sure, he gets the insurance bill, but it causes you to miss your important meeting.

Get my point? It's not fun and it's not socially acceptable and it's very immature to think that it is acceptable.

 

no its not really at all like attempted vehicular homicide.  on this i doubt many will agree with you.

fighting other players in games has been socially acceptable since at least the 6th century AD.  I can source that far back, i would be willing to bet others could source much, much further.

wikipedia's chess entry can't be too far off: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_chess

as far as video game competition being socially acceptable.. a version of pong was created in the 50s that unless i'm mistaken, was fully pvp capable and nobody found it socially unacceptable.

Fighting other players are acceptable when both party agrees on a set of predetermined rules. Would it still be acceptable when a chess player just flip the table and declare he/she wins? That's the same case with World PvP. It's acceptable when both party agrees to fight, which in that case we call it a "duel". It's a totally different case when you're mining a resource node and some other player come along, interrupt with what you're doing, and kills you right on the spot.

It doesn't matter whether you're in game or IRL, what is acceptable behavior is still the same. To draw another example, in GW1, the male warrior's dance move contains a series of "pelvic motion". A lot of players uses this to harass other players by performing this move from behind. Sure..it's just a game, but you get reported for sexual harassment either way. Another example happens frequently in FPS...teabagging. Appearantly, this has already been translated to real life..heh.

This is a T rated game. Let's keep it that way.

And so it begin. Just as i feared would take place.

Just go to the mists and pk to your black hearts content. This is the niche that ArenaNet made for you people to play just like this. Where you CAN go up to someone who is mining a node and kill them.

Also it is something most frawn upon thus a niche market. You are simply stating you wish to legalize murder. Well like I said above GO TO THE MISTS!!!!!

Again read TemperHoof blog and stop this http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/TemperHoof/072012/23486_Guild-Wars-2-Redefines-Open-World-PVP

Originally posted by lightblade

Originally posted by Ramanadjinn

Originally posted by lightblade

 

I don't think a lot of people would agree with you. That is just..not a socially acceptable behavior. It's like when you're minding your own business driving to work in the morning, then some random jackass ram his car into yours..ON PURPOSE! Sure, he gets the insurance bill, but it causes you to miss your important meeting.

Get my point? It's not fun and it's not socially acceptable and it's very immature to think that it is acceptable.

 

no its not really at all like attempted vehicular homicide.  on this i doubt many will agree with you.

fighting other players in games has been socially acceptable since at least the 6th century AD.  I can source that far back, i would be willing to bet others could source much, much further.

wikipedia's chess entry can't be too far off: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_chess

as far as video game competition being socially acceptable.. a version of pong was created in the 50s that unless i'm mistaken, was fully pvp capable and nobody found it socially unacceptable.

Fighting other players are acceptable when both party agrees on a set of predetermined rules. Would it still be acceptable when a chess player just flip the table and declare he/she wins? That's the same case with World PvP. It's acceptable when both party agrees to fight, which in that case we call it a "duel". It's a totally different case when you're mining a resource node and some other player come along, interrupt with what you're doing, and kills you right on the spot.

It doesn't matter whether you're in game or IRL, what is acceptable behavior is still the same. To draw another example, in GW1, the male warrior's dance move contains a series of "pelvic motion". A lot of players uses this to harass other players by performing this move from behind. Sure..it's just a game, but you get reported for sexual harassment either way. Another example happens frequently in FPS...teabagging. Appearantly, this has already been translated to real life..heh.

This is a T rated game. Let's keep it that way.

and both parties agree when they join a pvp server ( in the best set up ) .  I will never understand why people like you want everyone to only play the same way that you do.  people are different and enjoy different things. 

I like  the fact  that  gw2 has  no open world  pvp. 

I'm  a casual  player and  have played some  mmo's   with a  open world pvp system .

I played  aion for example. 

what i didn't  like there on  a open world pvp is that you constantly  get  challenged  for a duel.  when i just  started the  game  and i'm like level 3 or 4  already a player comes  by and challenge you to a  duel . most of the time  these player had also a  higher level.   I'm in the  game to  pve at start to get my  levels.  and later on when I'm ready I go into  pvp  part of the game.

In GW2 the  system they  use i find  far more  interesting  and better in my eyes. 

if you're  up to fighting   real players all the  time  in  gw2  in a pve  kinda enviroment  you go straight to  WvWvW.

(wel  do the  starterquest  of any race  ,travel to lions arch and than to there go to  the battlegrounds.)

if you want to do  pvp  arena  style you will go to  structure  pvp the same way.  

in structured pvp you got the acces  to  all the gear you will need and  are max level.  with all skills

if you don't   pvp  you can go into the  pve world. and  do what ever you want , not  having to worry being  challenged by  everyone.

In this  way in  guildwars 2  you get the best of both worlds.  go in  if you want to  or you stay out if you want to 

I don't mind  do  some  pvp  from time to time , but not all the  time.  

and  with  me there  many  casual or dedicated players that  don't  want  the  world to be open  pvp all the time.  

Originally posted by lightblade

Originally posted by Ramanadjinn

Originally posted by lightblade

 

I don't think a lot of people would agree with you. That is just..not a socially acceptable behavior. It's like when you're minding your own business driving to work in the morning, then some random jackass ram his car into yours..ON PURPOSE! Sure, he gets the insurance bill, but it causes you to miss your important meeting.

Get my point? It's not fun and it's not socially acceptable and it's very immature to think that it is acceptable.

 

no its not really at all like attempted vehicular homicide.  on this i doubt many will agree with you.

fighting other players in games has been socially acceptable since at least the 6th century AD.  I can source that far back, i would be willing to bet others could source much, much further.

wikipedia's chess entry can't be too far off: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_chess

as far as video game competition being socially acceptable.. a version of pong was created in the 50s that unless i'm mistaken, was fully pvp capable and nobody found it socially unacceptable.

Fighting other players are acceptable when both party agrees on a set of predetermined rules. Would it still be acceptable when a chess player just flip the table and declare he/she wins? That's the same case with World PvP. It's acceptable when both party agrees to fight, which in that case we call it a "duel". It's a totally different case when you're mining a resource node and some other player come along, interrupt with what you're doing, and kills you right on the spot.

It doesn't matter whether you're in game or IRL, what is acceptable behavior is still the same. To draw another example, in GW1, the male warrior's dance move contains a series of "pelvic motion". A lot of players uses this to harass other players by performing this move from behind. Sure..it's just a game, but you get reported for sexual harassment either way. Another example happens frequently in FPS...teabagging. Appearantly, this has already been translated to real life..heh.

This is a T rated game. Let's keep it that way.

heh bringing rl into pvp? Are you the kind of person that tries to set rules when you're getting into a fight?

This misconception that people who enjoy world pvp enjoy it because of ganking is so played out. Sometimes people want conflict in their games and competition outside of a "ready-set-go" environment.

Personally, I hate the "let's all hold hands and sing songs" approach of GW2, but I understand that it would be fairly difficult to execute open world pvp with the way DE's and the PvE content works.

If you want open world PvP play EVE or Darkfall - GW2 simply isn't that kind of game.

Originally posted by lightblade

 

Fighting other players are acceptable when both party agrees on a set of predetermined rules. Would it still be acceptable when a chess player just flip the table and declare he/she wins? That's the same case with World PvP. It's acceptable when both party agrees to fight, which in that case we call it a "duel". It's a totally different case when you're mining a resource node and some other player come along, interrupt with what you're doing, and kills you right on the spot.

 

i can't comment on the dancing or FPS games.. i'm simply talkinga bout PVP.

SQTO pretty much explained the counter to your argument well enough, i'd like to add though..

i can respect your wishes to not participate in PVP, i can only hope you research games before you buy them to save you the stress of discovering they allow such actions ahead of time.  this is the most important thing those with your tastes can possibly do.

and obviously as stated above, PVP like this is simply a matter of personal taste and it always will be.. there is no logical framework you can construct rhetorically that will make it otherwise.  there is no one viewpoint that is just and true and correct beyond all others.

Originally posted by senseisouls

I like  the fact  that  gw2 has  no open world  pvp. 

I'm  a casual  player and  have played some  mmo's   with a  open world pvp system .

I played  aion for example.

Aion is another crap like WOW, these games are garbage, they don't have any decent system, only red team vs blue team. Players are forced to join in one of two factions, while in a true owpvp game, players can make thair own alliances and enemies, and also there is penality for killing neutral players. In a clan war based game, there are many "factions", and everything is dynamic, a big alliance ban break up into several enemy clans, and small enemy-neutral clans can become a big alliance. You can simply join a neutral clan if you want, a clan that is not at war with any other clan.

As MMOs nowadays lack a decent system for clan war-pk, they have two options: make an owpvp where anyone can kill newbies or "neutral" players without any penality, or do like GW2, where there is no OWPVP.

Originally posted by swordmark45
The Mists IS open world pvp. It is not instanced. It is a 100% PvX game within a game

Isnt the mist where you just sign up for battles and buy gear?

I used to love open world PvP as well. But being able to join WvW as level 1 is more than enough for me. I'd rather want to be able to raid castles and do sieges, than a gankfest.

Sometimes WvW is a little gank fest too, so you would get that as well there.

Originally posted by MikeJezZ

Originally posted by swordmark45
The Mists IS open world pvp. It is not instanced. It is a 100% PvX game within a game

Isnt the mist where you just sign up for battles and buy gear?

 

I used to love open world PvP as well. But being able to join WvW as level 1 is more than enough for me. I'd rather want to be able to raid castles and do sieges, than a gankfest.

 

Sometimes WvW is a little gank fest too, so you would get that as well there.