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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Bioware "Some players want day-one DLC"

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  User Deleted
 
OP  8/19/12 4:11:20 AM#1

I didn't see this posted yet. If it was or is already being discussed elsewhere, I'd like for a mod to lock/delete this. It's from Gamasutra.

 

 

"Fernando Melo, director of online development at BioWare Montreal defended day one DLC for BioWare titles as part of his GDC Europe talk this week, explaining that "players want more content, and they want it now -- the problem is that there is no single 'now', so it should be there when they're ready for it."

Given that some players can take months to complete a game, while others can blast through games in a matter of days, this means that providing extra content from the get-go is the only real way to fulfill all players' expectations.

Melo argued that on the occasions when BioWare hasn't provided DLC from day one, those players who complete the game quickly then complained that there was nothing more to play and asked for extra content. If DLC isn't provided for these players, they may well move on to a different game and never come back to play DLC later on.

As proof that day one DLC also works in terms of sales, Melo said that 53 percent of all sales for the first Dragon Age: Origins DLC pack -- which was released on the same day as the full game -- were made on release day.

Melo also urged developers to remember that post-release downloadable content is now a necessity for video games, and can lead to some great benefits for your development team.

The BioWare executive noted in particular that, "using post-ship content is a great way to train your next set of leaders with very little risk, and the fans will also appreciate it."

He said that as your main game is ready to ship, your team will most likely be working together at the peak of its abilities, and so it makes a lot of sense to use that period to create even more content for the title, rather than taking a break and losing that edge.

There are plenty of benefits to DLC in terms of sales too, of course. "Everything you do post-ship is totally independent on the success of your game," noted Melo, "and DLC tends to sustain sales over time even better than your main game."

DLC holds its initial price better than your main game too, he continued, and releasing extra DLC packs can give sales spikes to both your original game release and spikes for all previous DLC packs too."

 

 

 

I see their point, though it sounds more like spin. If it's done by release, why not just make it part of the game? If that amount of content keeps it from being "beaten" so fast, why not just make it part of the release? Sounds more like an attempt to justify more money for the same game by limiting the release. It sounds like greed. I know DLC is planned ahead of time. I even know some of it's work is completed before the game's release. People are outsourced and it makes financial sense to have them do their work beforehand to save costs whenever possible. But, having it completely done and ready to go on release day sounds like a lack of faith in what you released and greed to me.

[edit] Tried to fix formatting.  This editor makes me never want to start another thread.[/edit]

  Xerith

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/09
Posts: 972

A monkey poured coffee in my boots

8/19/12 4:23:22 AM#2
Or, you know, you could add that content directly to the game for free and players would have more to do for free.... The amount of BS from developers coming out of Gamescom this year is astounding. 
  korent1991

Elite Member

Joined: 5/01/09
Posts: 1405

8/19/12 4:25:34 AM#3

He makes a few good points, but... Giving players DLC from day 1 when they just bought the game doesn't really send the best picture to the gamers...

If you really want to give more content on a release day, why not implement it in the game already... If this starts to be a trend they'll start making games which last untill you are somewhere on the middle of the story and then you'll have to buy more DLC contents to continue... :D

"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
-------------------------------

  Etherouge

Novice Member

Joined: 11/22/09
Posts: 522

8/19/12 4:26:32 AM#4
Originally posted by Xerith
Or, you know, you could add that content directly to the game for free and players would have more to do for free.... The amount of BS from developers coming out of Gamescom this year is astounding. 

This. This. This.

http://steamcommunity.com/id/Cloudsol/

  BeansnBread

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5540

8/19/12 4:29:47 AM#5
Originally posted by paroxysm

I see their point, though it sounds more like spin. If it's done by release, why not just make it part of the game? If that amount of content keeps it from being "beaten" so fast, why not just make it part of the release? Sounds more like an attempt to justify more money for the same game by limiting the release. It sounds like greed. I know DLC is planned ahead of time. I even know some of it's work is completed before the game's release. People are outsourced and it makes financial sense to have them do their work beforehand to save costs whenever possible. But, having it completely done and ready to go on release day sounds like a lack of faith in what you released and greed to me.

He is saying day 1 DLC is required because people speed through content and want more. He said, "those players who complete the game quickly then complained that there was nothing more to play and asked for extra content." My question is, once they have bought the content, how long does it last for people that tend to speed through content?

 

I personally think he brings a very poor argument to the table concerning day 1 DLC. The "extra day 1 content," if provided on day 1 as part of the game, has the exact same effect on players that burn through content. It takes them the same amount of time to consume it. So what is the benefit to the consumer? None. What is the benefit to the developer? More money. Unfortuntely, this argument appears to attempt to spin the focus away from those two facts.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  Connmacart

Novice Member

Joined: 2/24/12
Posts: 693

8/19/12 4:36:06 AM#6

It's simply pure bullshit he's proclaiming. Those players that blast through content are not going to be satisfied with 30 min of extra content.

Furthermore selling day 1 DLC is keeping other players from buying it as they see it as a blatant money grab and won't support a company further. 

 

  sicness277

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/01/11
Posts: 39

8/19/12 4:45:20 AM#7

It's really simple and has everything to do with exactly what he's talking about. People want it now and aren't willing to wait for it regardless of if it costs them more money. Developers release Day 1 DLC because people buy it, and it doesn't matter how many people don't buy a game for that reason because they make more than enough money off Day 1 DLC to make up for it. 

You also have to keep in mind that a lot of current DLC is done during production of the game and simply released later to make more profit on the game. This is most obvious on consoles when you download that DLC and it's simply a less than one megabyte file to unlock content. So the question then becomes is it really such a big deal if they release DLC on day 1 or wait a week? People speak with their wallets and they're obviously willing to pay for that DLC now rather than later, as he said. So in the end why should they not release Day 1 DLC if people are buying it? 

  Tenkousei

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/31/08
Posts: 73

8/19/12 4:57:01 AM#8
Originally posted by sicness277

It's really simple and has everything to do with exactly what he's talking about. People want it now and aren't willing to wait for it regardless of if it costs them more money. Developers release Day 1 DLC because people buy it, and it doesn't matter how many people don't buy a game for that reason because they make more than enough money off Day 1 DLC to make up for it. 

You also have to keep in mind that a lot of current DLC is done during production of the game and simply released later to make more profit on the game. This is most obvious on consoles when you download that DLC and it's simply a less than one megabyte file to unlock content. So the question then becomes is it really such a big deal if they release DLC on day 1 or wait a week? People speak with their wallets and they're obviously willing to pay for that DLC now rather than later, as he said. So in the end why should they not release Day 1 DLC if people are buying it? 

Think that is indeed the core of the problem. You can't really blame developpers for hopping on to a wagon that clearly nets them a lot of cash. If it wasn't for the players actually buying this D1DLC en masse, this business model would've gone the way of the dodo a long time ago. Yet the majority of players does it anyway, which proves the devs (or the suits behind the devs) right and keeps them from stopping those practices.

The problem is at the consumer end mostly.

  sicness277

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/01/11
Posts: 39

8/19/12 5:03:59 AM#9
Originally posted by Tenkousei
Originally posted by sicness277

It's really simple and has everything to do with exactly what he's talking about. People want it now and aren't willing to wait for it regardless of if it costs them more money. Developers release Day 1 DLC because people buy it, and it doesn't matter how many people don't buy a game for that reason because they make more than enough money off Day 1 DLC to make up for it. 

You also have to keep in mind that a lot of current DLC is done during production of the game and simply released later to make more profit on the game. This is most obvious on consoles when you download that DLC and it's simply a less than one megabyte file to unlock content. So the question then becomes is it really such a big deal if they release DLC on day 1 or wait a week? People speak with their wallets and they're obviously willing to pay for that DLC now rather than later, as he said. So in the end why should they not release Day 1 DLC if people are buying it? 

Think that is indeed the core of the problem. You can't really blame developpers for hopping on to a wagon that clearly nets them a lot of cash. If it wasn't for the players actually buying this D1DLC en masse, this business model would've gone the way of the dodo a long time ago. Yet the majority of players does it anyway, which proves the devs (or the suits behind the devs) right and keeps them from stopping those practices.

The problem is at the consumer end mostly.

Exactly. The problem is the vocal gamers on the internet make up only a small percentage of people who buy games, and those other people are the majority of the ones buying Day 1 DLC and are more than happy to do it obviously. It may suck if you disagree with it, but then no one is forcing you to buy the Day 1 DLC either. 

I don't blame the developers and publishers at all because it's a business and they're in it to make money, which is a lot harder than people realize, and being able to 'take advantage' of willing consumers isn't really their fault if people are too dumb/lazy/willing to throw their money away, to see what's going on. Yes, it may not be the most ethical of business practices, but it makes them money and that's their priority, as should be expected really.

  Mothanos

Elite Member

Joined: 10/20/10
Posts: 1806

8/19/12 5:07:37 AM#10

The thing i see with Downloadable contend is money grabbing greed.
They add less and less contend in games so you need to pay more and more for a littlebit of extra contend.

I have no problem to buy expansions, but DLC from day 1 ? no support from me never ever.

http://speedtest.net/result/2112016336.png

  BeansnBread

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5540

8/19/12 5:08:05 AM#11
Originally posted by sicness277
Originally posted by Tenkousei
Originally posted by sicness277

It's really simple and has everything to do with exactly what he's talking about. People want it now and aren't willing to wait for it regardless of if it costs them more money. Developers release Day 1 DLC because people buy it, and it doesn't matter how many people don't buy a game for that reason because they make more than enough money off Day 1 DLC to make up for it. 

You also have to keep in mind that a lot of current DLC is done during production of the game and simply released later to make more profit on the game. This is most obvious on consoles when you download that DLC and it's simply a less than one megabyte file to unlock content. So the question then becomes is it really such a big deal if they release DLC on day 1 or wait a week? People speak with their wallets and they're obviously willing to pay for that DLC now rather than later, as he said. So in the end why should they not release Day 1 DLC if people are buying it? 

Think that is indeed the core of the problem. You can't really blame developpers for hopping on to a wagon that clearly nets them a lot of cash. If it wasn't for the players actually buying this D1DLC en masse, this business model would've gone the way of the dodo a long time ago. Yet the majority of players does it anyway, which proves the devs (or the suits behind the devs) right and keeps them from stopping those practices.

The problem is at the consumer end mostly.

Exactly. The problem is the vocal gamers on the internet make up only a small percentage of people who buy games, and those other people are the majority of the ones buying Day 1 DLC and are more than happy to do it obviously. It may suck if you disagree with it, but then no one is forcing you to buy the Day 1 DLC either. 

I don't blame the developers and publishers at all because it's a business and they're in it to make money, which is a lot harder than people realize, and being able to 'take advantage' of willing consumers isn't really their fault if people are too dumb/lazy/willing to throw their money away, to see what's going on. Yes, it may not be the most ethical of business practices, but it makes them money and that's their priority, as should be expected really.

I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with the process. But there is something wrong with the argument the man in the OP is presenting. Offering day 1 DLC is perfectly fine in my opinion. Consumers of the product can make an informed decision to pay ot not to pay. But pretending like it is benefiting the consumer by saying people move through content at different rates is shady at best.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  fenistil

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/11
Posts: 3016

8/19/12 5:12:21 AM#12
Originally posted by Xerith
Or, you know, you could add that content directly to the game for free and players would have more to do for free.... The amount of BS from developers coming out of Gamescom this year is astounding. 

+1

=============

 

Bioware is finished anyway.  They are a shadow of what they were in late 90's / early 00's.

Besides Bioware = EA actually, so not surprised that I hear this sort of crap from some Bioware guy.

  karmath

Novice Member

Joined: 8/24/05
Posts: 841

8/19/12 5:12:34 AM#13
If a title that I bought for full retail price has on disc dlc or day 1 dlc, you bet your ass I'm pirating it.
  sicness277

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/01/11
Posts: 39

8/19/12 5:15:31 AM#14
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by sicness277
Originally posted by Tenkousei
Originally posted by sicness277

It's really simple and has everything to do with exactly what he's talking about. People want it now and aren't willing to wait for it regardless of if it costs them more money. Developers release Day 1 DLC because people buy it, and it doesn't matter how many people don't buy a game for that reason because they make more than enough money off Day 1 DLC to make up for it. 

You also have to keep in mind that a lot of current DLC is done during production of the game and simply released later to make more profit on the game. This is most obvious on consoles when you download that DLC and it's simply a less than one megabyte file to unlock content. So the question then becomes is it really such a big deal if they release DLC on day 1 or wait a week? People speak with their wallets and they're obviously willing to pay for that DLC now rather than later, as he said. So in the end why should they not release Day 1 DLC if people are buying it? 

Think that is indeed the core of the problem. You can't really blame developpers for hopping on to a wagon that clearly nets them a lot of cash. If it wasn't for the players actually buying this D1DLC en masse, this business model would've gone the way of the dodo a long time ago. Yet the majority of players does it anyway, which proves the devs (or the suits behind the devs) right and keeps them from stopping those practices.

The problem is at the consumer end mostly.

Exactly. The problem is the vocal gamers on the internet make up only a small percentage of people who buy games, and those other people are the majority of the ones buying Day 1 DLC and are more than happy to do it obviously. It may suck if you disagree with it, but then no one is forcing you to buy the Day 1 DLC either. 

I don't blame the developers and publishers at all because it's a business and they're in it to make money, which is a lot harder than people realize, and being able to 'take advantage' of willing consumers isn't really their fault if people are too dumb/lazy/willing to throw their money away, to see what's going on. Yes, it may not be the most ethical of business practices, but it makes them money and that's their priority, as should be expected really.

I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with the process. But there is something wrong with the argument the man in the OP is presenting. Offering day 1 DLC is perfectly fine in my opinion. Consumers of the product can make an informed decision to pay ot not to pay. But pretending like it is benefiting the consumer by saying people move through content at different rates is shady at best.

I don't think he's pretending to benefit the consumer in any way, he's just stating that the most profitable way for them to make money off DLC is by providing that content on Day 1 instead of releasing it later, and that makes sense. Most people play console games for a few weeks at most then move on, so releasing DLC later isn't as profitable for them due to several factors, one of which is advertising for that DLC being non-existant. 

  Tardcore

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/09
Posts: 2370

"A strange game. The only winning move is not to post."

8/19/12 5:24:12 AM#15
To me, Day One DLC is good for only one thing. Its a fantastic reason to NOT waste money and time better spent elsewhere on mindrot that goes bing. The more companies that swtich to doing this, the more of my money and time gets freed up for more worthwhile pursuits. Keep it up chumps in the gaming industry. Every year I find myself buying less and less of your games. And I find that the less I buy, the less I miss them.

"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "

  User Deleted
 
OP  8/19/12 5:25:33 AM#16
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by paroxysm

I see their point, though it sounds more like spin. If it's done by release, why not just make it part of the game? If that amount of content keeps it from being "beaten" so fast, why not just make it part of the release? Sounds more like an attempt to justify more money for the same game by limiting the release. It sounds like greed. I know DLC is planned ahead of time. I even know some of it's work is completed before the game's release. People are outsourced and it makes financial sense to have them do their work beforehand to save costs whenever possible. But, having it completely done and ready to go on release day sounds like a lack of faith in what you released and greed to me.

He is saying day 1 DLC is required because people speed through content and want more. He said, "those players who complete the game quickly then complained that there was nothing more to play and asked for extra content." My question is, once they have bought the content, how long does it last for people that tend to speed through content?

 

I personally think he brings a very poor argument to the table concerning day 1 DLC. The "extra day 1 content," if provided on day 1 as part of the game, has the exact same effect on players that burn through content. It takes them the same amount of time to consume it. So what is the benefit to the consumer? None. What is the benefit to the developer? More money. Unfortuntely, this argument appears to attempt to spin the focus away from those two facts.

This point is not touched by the BW employee, but is a good one.  Just how much extra time is gained from the DLC by someone who burned through the whole release in a day?  How many of those customers are saying "If it wasn't for that day-one DLC..."?

There are a lot of good comments on the original site by customers and developers alike.  The one that sticks out most to me is the developer putting it on the customer for not knowing how the industry works.  They proclaim that the customer needs to be educated on how it works.  That attitude is part of what is dividing cosumers and customers into an us vs them type of stand off.  How would they let ALL of their customers get educated?  How much would it cost to do so?  Will that "education" make it all ok?  Will we just take their word for it?  Or, will consumers still judge the experience provided to them the same as they always have?  Base it on exactly what is presented to them.

Perspective is perspective.  You can only influence it so much. 

Things like these are the little things that I believe will eventually bring a large collapse and finally some new ways of doing things.  Sadly, any obviously profitable business will end up like this as people who make money try to squeeze out more and more from the same product.

  QuicklyScott

Novice Member

Joined: 4/27/12
Posts: 448

The opinion of a penguin.

8/19/12 5:26:09 AM#17

Meh, this is just some bullcrap arbitrary defense of their bad business decisions. 

 

Sadly, Bioware (the one we knew and loved) is through.

  BeansnBread

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5540

8/19/12 5:26:42 AM#18
Originally posted by sicness277
Originally posted by colddog04

I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with the process. But there is something wrong with the argument the man in the OP is presenting. Offering day 1 DLC is perfectly fine in my opinion. Consumers of the product can make an informed decision to pay ot not to pay. But pretending like it is benefiting the consumer by saying people move through content at different rates is shady at best.

I don't think he's pretending to benefit the consumer in any way, he's just stating that the most profitable way for them to make money off DLC is by providing that content on Day 1 instead of releasing it later, and that makes sense. Most people play console games for a few weeks at most then move on, so releasing DLC later isn't as profitable for them due to several factors, one of which is advertising for that DLC being non-existant. 

I thought his argument was pretty clear here:

Melo argued that on the occasions when BioWare hasn't provided DLC from day one, those players who complete the game quickly then complained that there was nothing more to play and asked for extra content.

 

And here:

Given that some players can take months to complete a game, while others can blast through games in a matter of days, this means that providing extra content from the get-go is the only real way to fulfill all players' expectations.

 

What is he saying here then? I think it's clear that he is spinning this to say that it's the consumers that complained of lack of content that drove day 1 DLC. He says, "those players that complete the game quickly then complained that there was nothing more to play and asked for extra content."

 

Well, if those players were to recieve that extra content in game without having to pay for extra content, would the result not be the same? Would they not burn through it? He pretends that the consumers are demanding paid day 1 DLC. The reality is that people do indeed pay for it, but if the consumer had an option, they would prefer it be part of the original price of the game.

 

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  vgamer

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/27/11
Posts: 137

8/19/12 5:30:51 AM#19

He's indeed using a flawed argument to justify their greed.

 

But then again, if it works, why stop it then. Clearly some suckers need to be relieved of their money. Might as well go into the pockets of greedy shareholders, managers and other suits.

  stragen001

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/09/09
Posts: 1737

Mr Flibble is VERY cross

8/19/12 5:34:08 AM#20
Originally posted by Etherouge
Originally posted by Xerith
Or, you know, you could add that content directly to the game for free and players would have more to do for free.... The amount of BS from developers coming out of Gamescom this year is astounding. 

This. This. This.

Yes, This. They re just trying to milk players for more money. All day one DLC should be included with the price of the game

Cluck Cluck, Gibber Gibber, My Old Mans A Mushroom

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