Originally posted by Wolfenpride

Originally posted by eggy08

Originally posted by Wolfenpride

I hate the idea that elite mode/hardcore difficulty only applies to endgame players. A lot of players simply enjoy a challenging leveling experience.

I'd throw my money at this game instantly if they decided to make a hardcore server or something.

And again, I will state the same thing I did before. If you want a hardcore experience then thats entirely up to YOU. There are hundreds of ways to make a game hardcore without begging for it in the game. Because we all know that people will complain and if something is too hard for you to beat since they made it harder there is no way you can go back. You'll be stuck not completing it, as opposed to if you made YOUR own hardcore mode, you can break it at any time to complete content if it seems too hard. The devs don't make the games easy, only you do by doing the actions that make the game easy. They won't make games as hard enough so that only about 5% of the population of the gamers can make it to max level, that would lose so many casual gamers and people who just want to enjoy the game for what it is.

Or rather than having players intentionally gimp themselves to make a game hard(which is pretty stupid idea, considering growing your character is half the fun in an rpg..), they could have a seperate server with toughened monsters. Casuals can have standard servers, and those who want a harder game can play on the harder one. Both sides can experience the game how they want to this way.

Again you missed my point, once you get to a point past your level of skill, then what do you do? I'm sure you won't be too happy if they made something too hard for you to complete, even if someone who is in the top 1% of gamers can. So you get frustrated trying over and over to no avail, you just can't beat that DE. How exactly do you want them to scale it? Based on your preference, based on the top 10%/5%/1%? Its too hard to make it catter to everyone. Hence y there is dungeons with harder difficulties to make a challenge. But if they made those way too simple that you can just breeze throu them without really trying I can see your point.

I was a hardcore raider, I love the challenge, but I don't feel that a challenge is the same thing to one person as it is another. If you played D3, was that a challenge to you in inferno. They made that game "challenging" to the masses by making mobs 1 shot you so only ranged had any chance of progressing past Act 1 for months on end. Is it fair that a certain class gets an easier experience in some cases and another doesn't, no but that's playstyle. So how do you propose they make it more difficult but still fair for every class? It's a very hard question.

"...with toughened monsters." How do you make the mobs tough besides giving them more hp and more damage, because this logic was used in D3 and then only ranged classes could play because they were the only classes who could kill mobs without ever being hit.

Everyone was basically in agreeance that once you get further in the game, the mobs are harder and take a lot more effort to kill. And going back on my old post, "hardcore" or "elitist" servers or not, if you were forced to fight a mob that was rediculously tough at the very begining while you are trying to get all your 5 skills, how much fun are you really going to have? I had troubles killing a mob at my level (level 8 I think) underwater trying to get my 5 skills bec all I had was my very first skill which did maybe about 5% of his life. Add more health to that mob and I never would want to level up my skills again because I wouldn't be able to kill anything to do so. "Well go back and kill some lower level mobs". Well in your scenario since you get leveled down in GW2 that point is invalid since it will be just as difficult as before. The reason the starter is so easy is so people can get used to the game and get their weapon skills. Otherwise they would quit in no time if they cant even kill the mobs required to get said skills.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLWIFpTmRy4

One of the players in this video is one of the developers who made this dungeon. He gets killed, a lot. If it's challenging for the guy who MADE it, it's probably alright.

"Oh noes, I got to level 20 and didn't find the hardmode elite contentz!"..........

Also gotta wonder if OP ever followed an event chain to completion around level 20 solo, or was one of the masses who still don't understand DEs and just wander off down the road as soon as one satge is complete and only notice bosses when there is already a zerg beating them down. I explored a lot, and played several classes; often I found exactly what the OP is asking for: hard content (unless I just really suck, which is entirely possible, but I tend to push limits in games and have been able to do things considered difficult or impossible solo in other games, for whatever that is worth). 

Originally posted by Thrashbarg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLWIFpTmRy4

One of the players in this video is one of the developers who made this dungeon. He gets killed, a lot. If it's challenging for the guy who MADE it, it's probably alright.

"Oh noes, I got to level 20 and didn't find the hardmode elite contentz!"..........

Also gotta wonder if OP ever followed an event chain to completion around level 20 solo, or was one of the masses who still don't understand DEs and just wander off down the road as soon as one satge is complete and only notice bosses when there is already a zerg beating them down. I explored a lot, and played several classes; often I found exactly what the OP is asking for: hard content (unless I just really suck, which is entirely possible, but I tend to push limits in games and have been able to do things considered difficult or impossible solo in other games, for whatever that is worth). 

very true you can watch other dev videos of them playing the game in other aspects and they die a good amount

Originally posted by aesperus

Originally posted by fenistil

Originally posted by Zeppelin4
One of the reasons I'm waiting to buy the game. I want to see what people say about the challenge of the game as you level. I'm tired of games where the only question is how many mouse clicks does it take to get to end game. :(

Open world content in last BWE got HEAVILY nerfed.

Maybe later on it starts to get somewhat challanging again, but I havent got that far.

wtf are you talking about?

There was no nerf. There was a bug that was making the enemies way too easy. It's been fixed.

 Nice to see everyone agreeing here. :P One reason I'm waiting is my brother is going to play at launch and I can hear from him how easy it is. Were about the same skill so his thoughts will decide if I play or not.

Originally posted by eggy08

Originally posted by Wolfenpride

Originally posted by eggy08

Originally posted by Wolfenpride

I hate the idea that elite mode/hardcore difficulty only applies to endgame players. A lot of players simply enjoy a challenging leveling experience.

I'd throw my money at this game instantly if they decided to make a hardcore server or something.

And again, I will state the same thing I did before. If you want a hardcore experience then thats entirely up to YOU. There are hundreds of ways to make a game hardcore without begging for it in the game. Because we all know that people will complain and if something is too hard for you to beat since they made it harder there is no way you can go back. You'll be stuck not completing it, as opposed to if you made YOUR own hardcore mode, you can break it at any time to complete content if it seems too hard. The devs don't make the games easy, only you do by doing the actions that make the game easy. They won't make games as hard enough so that only about 5% of the population of the gamers can make it to max level, that would lose so many casual gamers and people who just want to enjoy the game for what it is.

Or rather than having players intentionally gimp themselves to make a game hard(which is pretty stupid idea, considering growing your character is half the fun in an rpg..), they could have a seperate server with toughened monsters. Casuals can have standard servers, and those who want a harder game can play on the harder one. Both sides can experience the game how they want to this way.

Again you missed my point, once you get to a point past your level of skill, then what do you do? I'm sure you won't be too happy if they made something too hard for you to complete, even if someone who is in the top 1% of gamers can. So you get frustrated trying over and over to no avail, you just can't beat that DE. How exactly do you want them to scale it? Based on your preference, based on the top 10%/5%/1%? Its too hard to make it catter to everyone. Hence y there is dungeons with harder difficulties to make a challenge. But if they made those way too simple that you can just breeze throu them without really trying I can see your point.

You switch to the other server if you find the harder one is to difficult. Or like any other person with common sense, you try and improve your character/skills. The point behind the harder difficulty in really any MMO at this point would be to make the game more group-oriented/challenging for those who felt the default was to easy

As to how it's scaled, that's something that would have to go through testing and feedback. And if a handful of people end up thinking it was scaled to hard, guess what? They always have the choice to go back to the normal server.

I was a hardcore raider, I love the challenge, but I don't feel that a challenge is the same thing to one person as it is another. If you played D3, was that a challenge to you in inferno. They made that game "challenging" to the masses by making mobs 1 shot you so only ranged had any chance of progressing past Act 1 for months on end. Is it fair that a certain class gets an easier experience in some cases and another doesn't, no but that's playstyle. So how do you propose they make it more difficult but still fair for every class? It's a very hard question.

Again, the point is making group-play more viable and fun for leveling characters. This really has nothing to do with raiding. Vanilla servers are more often than not already balanced for soloplay, which is where solo prefered players could enjoy the game. Ideally a hardcore server isn't going to be fair for any class. It's just hard all-around. Think FFXI.

"...with toughened monsters." How do you make the mobs tough besides giving them more hp and more damage, because this logic was used in D3 and then only ranged classes could play because they were the only classes who could kill mobs without ever being hit.

I didn't play Diablo 3, but I know for a fact the Diablo series does not play similarly to most MMO's, so i'm not sure why you're bringing it up. A simple increase to monster health and damage is a fine start in making the game harder, along with giving creatures additional/better skills for handling players. Heck you can even make elemental resistances/weakness more prominent . 

Everyone was basically in agreeance that once you get further in the game, the mobs are harder and take a lot more effort to kill.

The game isn't even out yet, and what late-game stuff has been experienced has gone through changes pretty much every beta, so you and "everyone" are speculating as far as this goes. That's something that will be judged when the game is actually out.

And going back on my old post, "hardcore" or "elitist" servers or not, if you were forced to fight a mob that was rediculously tough at the very begining while you are trying to get all your 5 skills, how much fun are you really going to have? I had troubles killing a mob at my level (level 8 I think) underwater trying to get my 5 skills bec all I had was my very first skill which did maybe about 5% of his life. Add more health to that mob and I never would want to level up my skills again because I wouldn't be able to kill anything to do so. "Well go back and kill some lower level mobs". Well in your scenario since you get leveled down in GW2 that point is invalid since it will be just as difficult as before. The reason the starter is so easy is so people can get used to the game and get their weapon skills. Otherwise they would quit in no time if they cant even kill the mobs required to get said skills.

Again, if you don't like it, don't play on the harder server. That's the great thing about it, you give everyone a choice. One of those goals of making a harder server would be to encourage grouping and teamwork, so as far as how to solve your little scenario, just find some friends to help you with it. This is an MMO afterall..

 

Just watched the video of the explorable dungeon and it looks pretty promising. also, its good to hear that the explorable dungeons are actually difficult to beat. If the difficulty level is anything like gw1 domain of anguish or the elite dungeons there, I will be more than satisfied. i wonder if people will start to make team builds for dungeons if things get too hard, which would detract from the game. in gw1 you would had team builds of the month, and if you didnt know how to use them or couldnt fill the very specific slot they wanted, then you couldnt go.

Originally posted by gessekai332

Just watched the video of the explorable dungeon and it looks pretty promising. also, its good to hear that the explorable dungeons are actually difficult to beat. If the difficulty level is anything like gw1 domain of anguish or the elite dungeons there, I will be more than satisfied. i wonder if people will start to make team builds for dungeons if things get too hard, which would detract from the game. in gw1 you would had team builds of the month, and if you didnt know how to use them or couldnt fill the very specific slot they wanted, then you couldnt go.

 

check your PM.

It's just not that type of game OP.  90% of the game was built casual from the ground up.  

Here's to hoping the ranked pvp will be worth it.  

Originally posted by gessekai332

Just watched the video of the explorable dungeon and it looks pretty promising. also, its good to hear that the explorable dungeons are actually difficult to beat. If the difficulty level is anything like gw1 domain of anguish or the elite dungeons there, I will be more than satisfied. i wonder if people will start to make team builds for dungeons if things get too hard, which would detract from the game. in gw1 you would had team builds of the month, and if you didnt know how to use them or couldnt fill the very specific slot they wanted, then you couldnt go.

 

It should be able to be done with any class combination. With the ability to change slotted utilities, major traits and weapons out of combat, there should be enough adaptability in any class to be successful (along with thinking, skill and experience, of course). That's something like their stated goal anyway, can't remember which interview/blog I saw that in, but they seem pretty good at adjusting balance to achieve those goals.

Might be more like your party sometimes needs you to switch to a more supportive or damage dealing role than they just need to kick you and get a tank or healer.

Originally posted by bcbully

It's just not that type of game OP.  90% of the game was built casual from the ground up.  

 

Here's to hoping the ranked pvp will be worth it.  

Have you tried the explorable mode dungeons? ArenaNet's no stranger to elite content. Just look at GW1.

Originally posted by gessekai332

Just watched the video of the explorable dungeon and it looks pretty promising. also, its good to hear that the explorable dungeons are actually difficult to beat. If the difficulty level is anything like gw1 domain of anguish or the elite dungeons there, I will be more than satisfied. i wonder if people will start to make team builds for dungeons if things get too hard, which would detract from the game. in gw1 you would had team builds of the month, and if you didnt know how to use them or couldnt fill the very specific slot they wanted, then you couldnt go.

 

glad you took the time to watch the vid:) remeber this is the "easiest" explorable mode dungeon as well

Originally posted by bcbully

It's just not that type of game OP.  90% of the game was built casual from the ground up.  

 

Here's to hoping the ranked pvp will be worth it.  

you are basing this on what now?

Originally posted by Wolfenpride

Originally posted by eggy08

Originally posted by Wolfenpride

Originally posted by eggy08

Originally posted by Wolfenpride

I hate the idea that elite mode/hardcore difficulty only applies to endgame players. A lot of players simply enjoy a challenging leveling experience.

I'd throw my money at this game instantly if they decided to make a hardcore server or something.

And again, I will state the same thing I did before. If you want a hardcore experience then thats entirely up to YOU. There are hundreds of ways to make a game hardcore without begging for it in the game. Because we all know that people will complain and if something is too hard for you to beat since they made it harder there is no way you can go back. You'll be stuck not completing it, as opposed to if you made YOUR own hardcore mode, you can break it at any time to complete content if it seems too hard. The devs don't make the games easy, only you do by doing the actions that make the game easy. They won't make games as hard enough so that only about 5% of the population of the gamers can make it to max level, that would lose so many casual gamers and people who just want to enjoy the game for what it is.

Or rather than having players intentionally gimp themselves to make a game hard(which is pretty stupid idea, considering growing your character is half the fun in an rpg..), they could have a seperate server with toughened monsters. Casuals can have standard servers, and those who want a harder game can play on the harder one. Both sides can experience the game how they want to this way.

Again you missed my point, once you get to a point past your level of skill, then what do you do? I'm sure you won't be too happy if they made something too hard for you to complete, even if someone who is in the top 1% of gamers can. So you get frustrated trying over and over to no avail, you just can't beat that DE. How exactly do you want them to scale it? Based on your preference, based on the top 10%/5%/1%? Its too hard to make it catter to everyone. Hence y there is dungeons with harder difficulties to make a challenge. But if they made those way too simple that you can just breeze throu them without really trying I can see your point.

You switch to the other server if you find the harder one is to difficult. Or like any other person with common sense, you try and improve your character/skills. The point behind the harder difficulty in really any MMO at this point would be to make the game more group-oriented/challenging for those who felt the default was to easy

As to how it's scaled, that's something that would have to go through testing and feedback. And if a handful of people end up thinking it was scaled to hard, guess what? They always have the choice to go back to the normal server.

Not going to even get into the amount of testing and scaling they would need to do for just a small portion of servers to make it different. The concept is nice and I would like something like it, but realistically its not viable. Only a really small portion of people hardcore raided and got it down. The less people on that server makes it almost impossible for raid boss DEs to get done since the lack of players in certain levels will be very varied.

I was a hardcore raider, I love the challenge, but I don't feel that a challenge is the same thing to one person as it is another. If you played D3, was that a challenge to you in inferno. They made that game "challenging" to the masses by making mobs 1 shot you so only ranged had any chance of progressing past Act 1 for months on end. Is it fair that a certain class gets an easier experience in some cases and another doesn't, no but that's playstyle. So how do you propose they make it more difficult but still fair for every class? It's a very hard question.

Again, the point is making group-play more viable and fun for leveling characters. This really has nothing to do with raiding. Vanilla servers are more often than not already balanced for soloplay, which is where solo prefered players could enjoy the game. Ideally a hardcore server isn't going to be fair for any class. It's just hard all-around. Think FFXI.

If they want to put in new content on a regular basis they have to balance that then go back and rebalance it all over again, which puts them behind and makes updates fewer and farther apart.

"...with toughened monsters." How do you make the mobs tough besides giving them more hp and more damage, because this logic was used in D3 and then only ranged classes could play because they were the only classes who could kill mobs without ever being hit.

I didn't play Diablo 3, but I know for a fact the Diablo series does not play similarly to most MMO's, so i'm not sure why you're bringing it up. A simple increase to monster health and damage is a fine start in making the game harder, along with giving creatures additional/better skills for handling players. Heck you can even make elemental resistances/weakness more prominent . 

Until you play D3 or look at the forums or look up the problems that arose with this game, you wouldn't understand my argument. Go read up on it, and you'll see their mistake.

Everyone was basically in agreeance that once you get further in the game, the mobs are harder and take a lot more effort to kill.

The game isn't even out yet, and what late-game stuff has been experienced has gone through changes pretty much every beta, so you and "everyone" are speculating as far as this goes. That's something that will be judged when the game is actually out.

exactly so calling for more challenging content might as beworthless to state as well is it not?

And going back on my old post, "hardcore" or "elitist" servers or not, if you were forced to fight a mob that was rediculously tough at the very begining while you are trying to get all your 5 skills, how much fun are you really going to have? I had troubles killing a mob at my level (level 8 I think) underwater trying to get my 5 skills bec all I had was my very first skill which did maybe about 5% of his life. Add more health to that mob and I never would want to level up my skills again because I wouldn't be able to kill anything to do so. "Well go back and kill some lower level mobs". Well in your scenario since you get leveled down in GW2 that point is invalid since it will be just as difficult as before. The reason the starter is so easy is so people can get used to the game and get their weapon skills. Otherwise they would quit in no time if they cant even kill the mobs required to get said skills.

Again, if you don't like it, don't play on the harder server. That's the great thing about it, you give everyone a choice. One of those goals of making a harder server would be to encourage grouping and teamwork, so as far as how to solve your little scenario, just find some friends to help you with it. This is an MMO afterall..

Again I wouldn't mind what your talking about but its not realistic. The population of hardcore gamers is too low to implement the changes that you want.

 

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by bookworm438

Originally posted by bcbully

It's just not that type of game OP.  90% of the game was built casual from the ground up.  

 

Here's to hoping the ranked pvp will be worth it.  

Have you tried the explorable mode dungeons? ArenaNet's no stranger to elite content. Just look at GW1.

[mod edit]

Lets be honest here, he been doing this for a long time now. Now is not any different.

Originally posted by bcbully

It's just not that type of game OP.  90% of the game was built casual from the ground up.  

 

Here's to hoping the ranked pvp will be worth it.  

I still wish you would tell us what happened to your signature.

See you in WvWvW

Originally posted by bcbully

90% of the game was built casual from the ground up.  

You're right.  But sadly, this statement applies to pretty much everything that's come out in the past ten years.  And now, thanks mostly to Wow, that everybody loves to play RPG's besides nerds, it's never ever going to change. 

:(

Originally posted by tabindex

Originally posted by bcbully

90% of the game was built casual from the ground up.  

 

You're right.  But sadly, this statement applies to pretty much everything that's come out in the past ten years.  And now, thanks mostly to Wow, that everybody loves to play RPG's besides nerds, it's never ever going to change. 

 

:(

he's not right but you guys can believe what you want.

Originally posted by tabindex
Well, I can't wait til next week to find out.  I do hope you're right and me and that guy are wrong.

you can take the word of someone who has put over 60+ hours into the game or someone who has never played.. your choice

either way like you said only a week to go:)