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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Why are "Major" Dragon Fight Events so *Static*???

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148 posts found
  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

8/18/12 12:43:46 PM#101
Originally posted by Nadia
Originally posted by Aerowyn

we don't know but the final elder dragon battles could perhaps be in their own instance which would allow for more of this type of gameplay but either way they are working with the limitations of an open world raid

we do know the GW2 elder dragon will be instanced

http://www.guildmag.com/magazine/issue7/flannumintv.html

GuildMag: The Elder Dragons are said to be huge—rather, enormous—will they be part of large dynamic events, or will we fight against them inside instanced areas?
Eric: The only Elder Dragon that players encounter in Guild Wars 2 is Zhaitan, and he is fought as part of a dungeon. So it’s safe to say that at least for the initial release of the game, you’ll only see Elder Dragons in instances.

 

this should allow for more complex mechanics to the fight for those people that don't see it as enough in the open world fights.

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  tank017

Novice Member

Joined: 7/09/06
Posts: 2206

8/18/12 12:43:53 PM#102

In games like Everquest - yes the boss moved around and such,but you had a tank holding them in place,which made the whole moving thing moot anyway..

 

unless you were wiping lol.

 

I did one time aggro the Dragon in Dreadlands accidently on my bard..ran it across the zone without even knowing it was on me haha,killed a few people before it finally caught me : \

 

 

I can see the point on both sides of this argument,would be cool if the bosses had more moevement in GW2..at the same time I can see the restraints and the reasons they didnt take that approach.

  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11241

8/18/12 12:46:07 PM#103
Originally posted by MosesZD
Originally posted by Nadia

Eireen from EQ2 moves around a bit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2oHaEfxJKU&feature=related

How interesting.  I consider that to be, effectively, a static piece.   The total area of movement is too small and confining. 

in EQ2 -- the raid dragon fights Ive seen have always been in confined rooms

there are EQ2 raid dragons flying in the skies but only for visual effects, you could not engage them

 

there is an outdoor raid Chimera in Stonebrunt,Oxdaxius, but as long as the tank has aggro, its the traditional tank / spank

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TzAL5WZb4M

  Nitth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3194

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

8/18/12 1:04:10 PM#104


Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by moosecatlol Better Dragons 1 2 3 4 Hopefully we will see some actual AI come into play for the dragons of GW2, rather than the current scripted sequences.
Those are very differn't types of games where the entire areas are instances.. now we don't know but the final elder dragon battles could perhaps be in their own instance which would allow for more of this type of gameplay but either way they are working with the limitations of an open world raid

I don't believe it, A script will run the same weather its on a rat or a giant. What does it matter if its initialized in a zone or an instance?

You can see from the amount of De's running per zone that the server can handle the load of multiple complex scripts.

The only thing imo that would stop these kind of events happening would be the end users computer not being able to render those rather large models.


TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  GamerUntouch

Novice Member

Joined: 5/11/12
Posts: 491

8/18/12 1:05:52 PM#105

The mechanics of the fight would not work if it moved.

  Kuinn

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/10/11
Posts: 1976

8/18/12 1:31:18 PM#106

I have only read the first page of the thread, so sorry if I repeat something, but people seem to take these huge entities as normal dungeon bosses or raid bosses from other games.

 

Look at the size of that thing, it does not run around chasing single little guy based on "hate", all the other games where I raided the bosses were at least half the size to chase anything, and when they got really huge like raggy in WoW, he stood still doing stuff.

 

Just saying, if I was that dragon, I wouldnt be making estimates of who is the best healer of the little attacking insects, or which one of the individual raiders are shooting the most powerful needles at me.

 

That's just what comes to mind as first, as I havent experienced these fights yet so I cant say how they feel on the go.

 

Though I do agree that the things seem a bit too slow to do anything, I'd expect them to more wildly swipe the floor to get rid of the ants, and blow crystal smoke at player clusters or what the feck ever these things do to guys they dont fancy that much. Now the dragons look like they would be a bit bored with the crowd who are killing them :)

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

8/18/12 1:35:40 PM#107

After 15 years, I'm a little disappointed that game companies are still using Dragons: Yet Again, yep.

Not quite the op's intended topic spin though, never mind.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  rpg123

Novice Member

Joined: 5/18/04
Posts: 73

8/18/12 1:36:20 PM#108
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by rpg123

I noticed this too, and it's not just the large dragons that do it. ALL of the large meta-event bosses are static.

 

I hope that's not the case post-release :(

not true 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNejx-L3B4I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iF7We0TNUWQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBngJ87M6lw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VaqjhWBHTc

 

and plenty others

But those are tiny are are from dynamic events, not the meta- events, I'm talking about the large bosses. The flame elemental in the asura area, the worm in the sylvari area, the shadow behemoth and all of the intro bosses etc etc.  The small to medium sized bosses are much more mobile.

  Derpybird

Novice Member

Joined: 4/02/12
Posts: 1006

8/18/12 1:37:40 PM#109
Originally posted by rpg123
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by rpg123

I noticed this too, and it's not just the large dragons that do it. ALL of the large meta-event bosses are static.

 

I hope that's not the case post-release :(

not true 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNejx-L3B4I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iF7We0TNUWQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBngJ87M6lw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VaqjhWBHTc

 

and plenty others

But those are tiny are are from dynamic events, not the meta- events, I'm talking about the large bosses. The flame elemental in the asura area, the worm in the sylvari area, the shadow behemoth and all of the intro bosses etc etc.  The small to medium sized bosses are much more mobile.

I still have nightmares about the flame elemental and people standing on the bridge trying to rez others, instead of going in and dancing with the thing.

"Loading screens" are not "instances".
Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.

  Takiton

Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/10
Posts: 76

8/18/12 1:40:05 PM#110
Originally posted by Fadedbomb
Originally posted by Aerowyn
they are mid-high level raids not top level stuff also show me a MMO with more interactive dragon fights

Everquest?

Big ass Dragons that you had to worry about hate, aggro, etc. They moved, and reacted based on different events. Even EQII being the horrible game that it was had better Dragon events.

 

DAOC had half decent Dragon events too that worried about how many people were hitting it, how many DPS were hitting it, and how many healers were active rather than hate management. The events would also change based on # of players to make it drastically harder if you brought 100 instead fo 50.

 

Also, BABY dragons O_o;? Those things are huge, you're joking right X_x? What are the higher end-game dragon fights? You running on their backs smacking giant mountains that are their joints x_X?

 

Also, "top Level" or not those dragons are extremely dumb and static fights. Just saying :(.

 

Everquest dragon fights... uber dynamic?  I see people standing in a ball mashing #1....  Heindsight is 20/20 in most cases but i dont think this is one of those.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaVUtXneDrY

 

 

  heartless

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/04
Posts: 5057

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan

8/18/12 1:40:52 PM#111

I don't understand the issue. I mean those freaking things are huge! Do you want them to shuffle around like Onyxia or something? Chase after the player who pulled agrro until the tank gets it back?

When you have to kill a couple of ants on your kitchen countertop, do you do a lot of running around or do you just get a tissue or bug spray and *splat*?

You character is about a size of an ant to those dragons. Well, maybe a bit bigger but I hope you get what I'm saying. The dragons are so big that they do not have to move as they are so big that you'll still be in their reach.

  User Deleted
8/18/12 1:41:29 PM#112
I don't know, why not send an email to anet and ask them? Asking us wont give you the answers you want.............. 
  Enok4Twunni

Novice Member

Joined: 5/30/11
Posts: 214

8/18/12 1:45:30 PM#113
Who's to say, answering the OP, that Dragon Fights can't become something comprable to really intricate, fast paced, Skyrim type dragon fight. If you have the Deadly Dragons mod you'd know what I mean. Given some time, ANet can create some really awesome lengthy boss fights.
  mazut

Novice Member

Joined: 4/23/08
Posts: 824

8/18/12 3:55:53 PM#114
OP, the movement is turned around, players move constantly, the huge bosses are static. Phisicaly they can't move or it will be nighmare for players to follow them. Smaller bosses move a lot.
  TruthXHurts

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/10
Posts: 1640

I am here to chew bubblegum and to kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum!

8/18/12 3:58:51 PM#115
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Fadedbomb
Originally posted by Aerowyn
they are mid-high level raids not top level stuff also show me a MMO with more interactive dragon fights

Everquest?

Big ass Dragons that you had to worry about hate, aggro, etc. They moved, and reacted based on different events. Even EQII being the horrible game that it was had better Dragon events.

 

DAOC had half decent Dragon events too that worried about how many people were hitting it, how many DPS were hitting it, and how many healers were active rather than hate management. The events would also change based on # of players to make it drastically harder if you brought 100 instead fo 50.

 

Also, BABY dragons O_o;? Those things are huge, you're joking right X_x? What are the higher end-game dragon fights? You running on their backs smacking giant mountains that are their joints x_X?

 

Also, "top Level" or not those dragons are extremely dumb and static fights. Just saying :(.

got any video? I remember most being very static like wow, rift.. ect

not ot mention both those videos are very old the shatterer one is years old so no telling how the mechanics will be at launch

Proabably talking about smaller dragons. I remember them being pretty mobile in EQ1.

"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"

  silvermember

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/02/12
Posts: 498

8/18/12 4:05:49 PM#116
Originally posted by Enok4Twunni
Who's to say, answering the OP, that Dragon Fights can't become something comprable to really intricate, fast paced, Skyrim type dragon fight. If you have the Deadly Dragons mod you'd know what I mean. Given some time, ANet can create some really awesome lengthy boss fights.

Skyrim is only good at one thing exploration and nothing more. The dragon fights were a joke at hour one and a joke a few hours later. No strategy, no tactics nothing really.

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

8/18/12 4:09:07 PM#117

I really don't see any problem here.

Bosses that stay relatively stantionary is a pretty common thing in many different kinds of games.  Demons Souls, The Witcher 2 and many other games feature some stationary bosses.  They are no less challenging or fun than the mobile bosses...just different.

I guess if GW2 had ONLY stationary bosses, I could understand this complaint...but they have both mobile and stationary bosses.  So I see no problem here.  In fact, I could even see people complaining if GW2 had NO stationary bosses because its boss fights would lack variety.

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

8/18/12 4:09:38 PM#118
Originally posted by silvermember
Originally posted by Enok4Twunni
Who's to say, answering the OP, that Dragon Fights can't become something comprable to really intricate, fast paced, Skyrim type dragon fight. If you have the Deadly Dragons mod you'd know what I mean. Given some time, ANet can create some really awesome lengthy boss fights.

Skyrim is only good at one thing exploration and nothing more. The dragon fights were a joke at hour one and a joke a few hours later. No strategy, no tactics nothing really.

Install the Deadly Dragons mod :).

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  stevebmbsqd

Novice Member

Joined: 9/26/09
Posts: 457

"Evolution thru Revolution"

8/18/12 4:19:08 PM#119
Originally posted by silvermember
Originally posted by Enok4Twunni
Who's to say, answering the OP, that Dragon Fights can't become something comprable to really intricate, fast paced, Skyrim type dragon fight. If you have the Deadly Dragons mod you'd know what I mean. Given some time, ANet can create some really awesome lengthy boss fights.

Skyrim is only good at one thing exploration and nothing more. The dragon fights were a joke at hour one and a joke a few hours later. No strategy, no tactics nothing really.

No TES game is noted for having exceptional combat. In fact, all of them are. Skyrim has a lot more going for it than just exploration though.

  Jimmydean

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/21/04
Posts: 1295

8/18/12 4:19:17 PM#120
Originally posted by WoW_Refugee
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Fadedbomb
Originally posted by Aerowyn
they are mid-high level raids not top level stuff also show me a MMO with more interactive dragon fights

Everquest?

Big ass Dragons that you had to worry about hate, aggro, etc. They moved, and reacted based on different events. Even EQII being the horrible game that it was had better Dragon events.

 

DAOC had half decent Dragon events too that worried about how many people were hitting it, how many DPS were hitting it, and how many healers were active rather than hate management. The events would also change based on # of players to make it drastically harder if you brought 100 instead fo 50.

 

Also, BABY dragons O_o;? Those things are huge, you're joking right X_x? What are the higher end-game dragon fights? You running on their backs smacking giant mountains that are their joints x_X?

 

Also, "top Level" or not those dragons are extremely dumb and static fights. Just saying :(.

got any video? I remember most being very static like wow, rift.. ect

not ot mention both those videos are very old the shatterer one is years old so no telling how the mechanics will be at launch

This is one of the more famous examples of what happens when you take on a dragon(s) in Everquest and don't do it right;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AcAxGE-8ag

The video quality is crap, but notice that the one dragon aggroes another, who then both proceed to chase and follow the entire raid force of dozens of people, destroying them all.

I'm sorry, but look; Guild Wars 2 may be the flavor of the moment, and it may have many, many, many good things going for it, but better or "more interactive" boss fights than Everquest most certainly, by no stretch of the imagination, are not one of those things.

Pulling triplets! I was a Monk back then, and let me tell you, that was one of the most challenging raid encounters I've ever done. This is the kind of thing GW2 does not have, nor ever will. 

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