It's kinda true.

There is no improvement without (even harsh) criticism.

It's important to point out every problem you have with the game.

If forums don't explain what's wrong with the game Arenanet won't be able to improve it.

Originally posted by LytheEmber

I would also like to understand better how one distinguishes between a game's "faults" and "things that are either in the game that I do not want or not in the game that I want."

Now THAT is a good question/statement.  I LOVE to dodge (I was an insane "tumbler" in DDO on my ranger so much so that I was nicknamed "Spider Monkey") and would love to dodge ALL I want with no limitations.  That is not a fault in the game, merely my preference.  And having played the game and having used the mechanic I understand WHY I cannot dodge all I want.  Therefore, I will not rant about not having this feature because to do so would be fruitless/pointless.

I just prefer to focus on what I like about the game (cooperation), but that in NO way makes me blind to what could be done better.

For example, If I go back to do the level 50 dungeon (Sylvari lands I think) at level 80 will the cosmetic gear get a boost to level 80 stats or will I be forced to use transmutation stones to merge that look with level 80 stats.  I do not know the answer and such extra "work" COULD be a fault since the game is based on cooperation and eliminating required timesinks. 

Then again is getting a certain set of armor REALLY a required timesink?  Not when I take a second to think about it.

So Mr. Bird I guess the answer lies within each person and their willingness to look at each facet objectively and that does not happen in every case, for OR against the game.

I see people repeatedly treating "what they want in a game" as 'faults of a game", including the OP in prior threads.

There is nothing wrong with saying "I wish I could tumble all the time". There is something wrong with saying "This game does not let me tumble all the time therefore it is flawed."

Developers made design decisions. You may agree with them or not, and you may use your own personal finances to support them or not. You may believe these decisions will have negative consequences, or you may believe that ANet is full of smart people who have a plan.

But in threads like these, where people purposefully confuse personal preference with "objective" facts, it results in the always wonderful "since you don't agree with me that these things are faults, you must be incapable of critical thought."

I mean it's just plain insulting.

So if people want to actually have a discussion about "factual" faults with GW2, why not post them, or at the very least be clear that the things that you find lacking are based on your personal preference and can not be automatically generalized to the entire gaming population. And finally, if you really want to be critical, that involves being willing to change your mind based on new data, which I don't see a lot of here.

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by Creslin321

"You reap what you sow?"  Seriously WTF does that even mean?

These are people excited for a game, not people strip mining a nature reserve.  What exactly are they "sowing" and what are they going to "reap?"  

OMG, they are excited about a game that they may one day no longer like!  I guess the only solution is to never get excited about anything ever again because I may one day be dissappointed by it.  

That's healthy.

What, you never heard the saying before? You really need it explained to you? When you go on other forums trashing their games it isn't the least bit surprising some are going to be angered by it.

What the hell does any of this have to do with people being excited about the game anyways? I'm excited for it too so what the hell is your point?

Um...this is MMORPG.com. People do that with every game. I still remember with every game release from Rift through Tera, people came on here bashing GW2 as it'll never beat game x and that game x will be the true WoW killer. So stop acting like GW2 is exclusive to this. People still come on here comparing GW2 to game x. Except now the fotm of comparisons is back to GW2 vs WoW. 

Originally posted by Denambren

After all the SWTOR and TSW praise threads we've seen, only to see the same posters later put up threads about how much POTENTIAL those games had and that if they just do x, y, z, the game would be fantastic, you've just got to expect the same kind of behavior here for GW2.

And your point? Of course people are going to be disappointed, it happens with every game. Then there's going to be people who enjoy it. So far, however, we've seen most people seem to enjoy the game a lot. I've seen very few actual negative reviews of GW2 (excluding minor criticisms every player has).

Originally posted by Derpybird

Originally posted by LytheEmber

I would also like to understand better how one distinguishes between a game's "faults" and "things that are either in the game that I do not want or not in the game that I want."

Now THAT is a good question/statement.  I LOVE to dodge (I was an insane "tumbler" in DDO on my ranger so much so that I was nicknamed "Spider Monkey") and would love to dodge ALL I want with no limitations.  That is not a fault in the game, merely my preference.  And having played the game and having used the mechanic I understand WHY I cannot dodge all I want.  Therefore, I will not rant about not having this feature because to do so would be fruitless/pointless.

I just prefer to focus on what I like about the game (cooperation), but that in NO way makes me blind to what could be done better.

For example, If I go back to do the level 50 dungeon (Sylvari lands I think) at level 80 will the cosmetic gear get a boost to level 80 stats or will I be forced to use transmutation stones to merge that look with level 80 stats.  I do not know the answer and such extra "work" COULD be a fault since the game is based on cooperation and eliminating required timesinks. 

Then again is getting a certain set of armor REALLY a required timesink?  Not when I take a second to think about it.

So Mr. Bird I guess the answer lies within each person and their willingness to look at each facet objectively and that does not happen in every case, for OR against the game.

I see people repeatedly treating "what they want in a game" with 'faults of a game", including the OP in prior threads.

There is nothing wrong with saying "I wish I could tumble all the time". There is something wrong with saying "This game does not let me tumble all the time therefore it is flawed."

Developers made design decisions. You may agree with them or not, and you may use your own personal finances to support them or not.

But in threads like these, where people purposefully confuse personal preference with "objective" facts, it results in the always wonderful "since you don't agree with me that these things are faults, you must be incapable of critical thought."

I mean it's just plain insulting.

I agree with your sentiment wholeheartedly.  But it IS difficult to distinguish the two.  I found it so even while I was typing my own reply.  I guess the greater problem is not the act of distinguishing these two ideas, but instead possibly realizing the distinction and then continuing to post about them as fact.  So either some people struggle with the distinction or knowingly ignore the distinction and say it anyway.  The latter, to me, is worse.

Just to be clear, I like reading your posts Derpy because they are at least thought provoking, and I AM in agreement with you.

Originally posted by bookworm438

Um...this is MMORPG.com. People do that with every game. I still remember with every game release from Rift through Tera, people came on here bashing GW2 as it'll never beat game x and that game x will be the true WoW killer. So stop acting like GW2 is exclusive to this. People still come on here comparing GW2 to game x. Except now the fotm of comparisons is back to GW2 vs WoW. 

...and they were all over their forums saying how GW2 was going to destroy their game. It went both ways. Seemed a lot more the latter to me really.

It was really bad with SWTOR although to be fair considering how the SWTOR fanboys acted beforehand it was hard to really pity them.

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by Creslin321

I meant WTF does it mean in this context...I obviously know what reap what you sow means, I thought that my strip mining a nature reserve comment made that obvious ;).

I mentioned in that post briefly where it stems from. As I have in many other posts. Why this is so surprising to some is simply astounding. You've been around here long enough that you should know better than most.

Look, I know exactly what you mean.  I just think it's silly.

You have to put this in perspective.  These are people excited about a video game.  Even if they come back 3 months later crying about how the game was horrible...who cares?  They probably enjoyed the game for those 3 months...which is far more than someone who was constantly cynical about the game enjoyed it.

The point is that it's probably a better idea to actually enjoy things than to never really enjoy anything fully because you are constantly afraid that you may one day dislike it.

Despite my dislike for the gem/gold exchange in GW2, I'm still really psyched for the game, and I think it may actually wind up rivaling WoW.  Some people would call me a rabid fanboi for this.  But if I turn out to be right, then none of that matters ;).

Totally agree Derpy.  Im convinced this form of bahaviour and attitude comes from players who are stuck in a rut in another mmorg elsewhere and they are afraid of change and moving out of their comfort zone.  Asside from this you have players who have established avatars with power within their current game - and they are terrified to lose this, subconsciously they are trying to find ways of finding an environment that they can transfer to, get up to speed, and then continue as they were.

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by bookworm438

Um...this is MMORPG.com. People do that with every game. I still remember with every game release from Rift through Tera, people came on here bashing GW2 as it'll never beat game x and that game x will be the true WoW killer. So stop acting like GW2 is exclusive to this. People still come on here comparing GW2 to game x. Except now the fotm of comparisons is back to GW2 vs WoW. 

...and they were all over their forums saying how GW2 was going to destroy their game. It went both ways. Seemed a lot more the latter to me really.

It was really bad with SWTOR although to be fair considering how the SWTOR fanboys acted beforehand it was hard to really pity them.

Awww, Wicked you just love a good discussion don't you?

Again, I agree with you that bashing what others love/like, especially when said love/like in no way harms you, is unjustified and useless.  People who like GW2 should not be going into other forums and attacking what others find enjoyable.  I do not doubt that it happens and I agree with you that it goes both ways.  I do not go into those forums so I do not see it (others may be like me) but I do believe that it happens.  Perhaps some of us are reaping what others sow?

I commend you for at least trying to see both sides.  Well done.  And no that is NOT sarcasm.  I mean it.

Originally posted by Creslin321

Look, I know exactly what you mean.  I just think it's silly.

You have to put this in perspective.  These are people excited about a video game.  Even if they come back 3 months later crying about how the game was horrible...who cares?  They probably enjoyed the game for those 3 months...which is far more than someone who was constantly cynical about the game enjoyed it.

The point is that it's probably a better idea to actually enjoy things than to never really enjoy anything fully because you are constantly afraid that you may one day dislike it.

Despite my dislike for the gem/gold exchange in GW2, I'm still really psyched for the game, and I think it may actually wind up rivaling WoW.  Some people would call me a rabid fanboi for this.  But if I turn out to be right, then none of that matters ;).

I think you and I have a different interpretation of a fanboy. Either that or you misunderstood my interpretation of one.I don't see someone that is excited or sees the game possibly rivaling WoW as being one. If that was the case then I would be considered a GW2 fanboy too. My feelings of one is a person that goes out of their way to go to other game forums and slam a person's game many times without even having played it or stirring up controversy about the game itself in unfounded ways. Usually with an insert as to how their game will not have this problem or will be ten times better. Also, thinking that everything that happens in the gaming world revolves or is somehow a byproduct of their game. That is my definition of a fanboy.

For the record, I'm not condoning those coming here to do the same thing. What I am saying is that it isn't surprising and considering the way some acted here and on other sites it shouldn't be surprising to others.