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Originally posted by lustbust
Lineage 2 has had raids/epic raids aswell as world bosses and that game is not a failure at all and is very old.Neither is Aion.To say every game that takes that formula is a failure just is not true.

Both games might not be that big here but in other countries they are a way of life.
 

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Yup, but that's what the OP tried to say. A Game can have raids, but don't need to follow the "RAID" (implying , Gear Tiering, Timesink (IDs, lockouts), Geargrind for hardmode) and beeing the only viable "Endgame" - Model like WoWs which evolved over the years and especially after "Vanilla" (WoW wasn't like that, it became the monster).

Yet you will find people everywhere moaning and bitching that a game can't even work without WoW's "RAID" (Endgame), and if it has it, it's just a inferior clone.

The sad part is, those people really can't even imagine a different set of "endgame" or "raids".

Disgusting thread with even more repulsive poll.

Originally posted by skydiver12

 

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Originally posted by lustbust
Lineage 2 has had raids/epic raids aswell as world bosses and that game is not a failure at all and is very old.Neither is Aion.To say every game that takes that formula is a failure just is not true.

 

Both games might not be that big here but in other countries they are a way of life.
 

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Yup, but that's what the OP tried to say. A Game can have raids, but don't need to follow the "RAID" (implying , Gear Tiering, Timesink (IDs, lockouts), Geargrind for hardmode) and beeing the only viable "Endgame" - Model like WoWs which evolved over the years and especially after "Vanilla" (WoW wasn't like that, it became the monster).

Yet you will find people everywhere moaning and bitching that a game can't even work without WoW's "RAID" (Endgame), and if it has it, it's just a inferior clone.

The sad part is, those people really can't even imagine a different set of "endgame" or "raids".

Personally i think EQ2 instanced raids outshine WoW raids.

And thhe mass event feeling will be the major DE bosses that require dozens of people to join up either in Orr or the other areas.

By removing the timesink, and the reason to repeat content over and over for the same gear, Arenanet has create a fresh game. they could easilly add some instanced raids, with only the goal to beat these raids for the heck of beating them instead of getting better and better gear.

The biggest problem of GW2 is that they dont want people to endlessly repeat content and so they have to add much much more content to the game to keep everyone happy over the long run.

But then i really dislike the orriginal poll and some of the statements, i wish i would have been the first to report it, but i wasnt. So id say in before the close

Whats with the wow hating ?  And I haven't heard of even a single person saying that the game should be more wow like. You're pprobably thinking of some other game.

Originally posted by FoxyShoxzy

Originally posted by dekou

I don't play WoW, so I don't know much about its statistics, but wasn't there a survey / web page that indicated that less than 5% of WoW's players have played high-level raids?

 

I think there was some sort of statistic around the end of Vanilla that indicated less than 1% of players had experienced the original Naxx. Not sure where it was from or how accurate it was.

That is not reflective of the current raid environment in WoW. Ever since BC, Blizzard has been taking steps to make raid content more accessible to everyone.

The data seems to indicate that, on average, 5%-10% of the player base in WoW have historically participated in their raid content. Now this does not mean finishing a raid tier, it simply means having killed at least one raid boss.

This seemed to increase during ICC, when data seems to suggest that almost 20% of people raided (e.g. killed at least one boss) when they started instituting progressive raid buffs reaching 30%

The last data that I saw was on Firelands, where 1.5% of the player base completed FL on normal.

It was because raid participation was so low, and development time spend on creating raids so high, that they instituted LFR. Of course, this was met by a HUGE backlash from the small but vocal raiding community, who felt that the associated gear should be exclusive to them. This is one recent argument on the topic with the upcoming MoP expansion.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4879017939?page=1

Additionally, LFR creates an issue of content duration, meaning that once people have run an instance for a few weeks, the novelty wears off, whereas if you put a carrot far off in the distance, developers hoped that players would continue to pay a sub to work their way toward it.

So you have a small but vocal minority demanding content exclusive to their subgroup with gear and rewards exclusive to them.

For WoW players offended by the OP:

He does not represent the GW2 community.

Originally posted by coretex666

Disgusting thread with even more repulsive poll.

 

This, glad its reported.  

In before lock & delete?

Its ok to admit that WoW jsut does everything better than every other game does and possibly can right now....you may hate it but its true.

Think about this....If some game came out with a really revolutionary feature that players LOVED and talked about....Blizzard would just do it in their game where almost every MMO gamer has a character...and they would do it better, more fluid and refined. How? Because they have BILLIONS of dollars to do it with an a suprior engine capable of featuring Multiple player and computer characters on a screen without crashing your system. NO OTHER GAME OR ENGINE CAN COME CLOSE!

Truth hurts.

Funny when a bunch of ex-WoW players complain about other ex-WoW players. :)

Originally posted by FealStyrm

...

I actually just made this account to post this today, I rarely come to these forums because its the same discussion every day.

"Why doesn't X game have raiding!?!?" Its been that way since 2006.

I used to come here back in 2005 and actually use the forums, but now I just read the news articles.

And how would you know that it's the same discussion about raiding every day when you rarely come to these forums and just read the news articles?

Either you're lying that you just read the news articles or you don't have any idea what we're talking about since 2006. :)

LOL ... the OP think he can change behavior of OTHER PEOPLE by posting on the Internet???

If someone likes WOW type of games, i see no reason why he should not clamour for similar style games in other setting. I don't see why he should not vote with his wallet.

I suggest the OP does the same ... vote with his wallet and see what happens.

Originally posted by Theocritus
     I remember playing Rift when it was in beta and commenting "This game reminds me alot of WoW and WAR"..... ANother player then responded "as a former WoW player this is exactly what we are looking for: WoW in a different skin"

I wouldn't mind WOW reskinned with a sci-fi setting, or a super hero setting. Hence I play DCUO.

Originally posted by Icewhite
Why is there this determined effort to turn WoW and GW2 against each other?

 I'm not sure it's a case of turning them against each other, although for some that's probably true. For me it's more an effort to make them different. If GW2 was made to be the same as WoW, what's the point in playing it. If I want to play WoW, I'd just play WoW.

By making them offer a different experience you get the chance to play 2 distinct games, each with different things to offer, and enjoy both. There's no reason for people to pick one over the other, or not to have fun in both of them. You can have a favourite, sure. But why deprive yourself of an alternative for when you get a bit burnt out? GW2's B2P model fits so well with this idea I'm surprised more WoW players (or any sub based MMO for that matter) aren't jumping at the chance to have a backup MMO that has excellent production values and will only cost the price of the box.

I voted "Go back to WoW and roll a Panda" for the lolz. But... let's look at it like this.  

Ex-WoW-heads = 20 million    VS    sane people = 2 million. I'm not sure but I think the ex-WoW-heads are gonna win. At least if any MMO developer is looking for the coins. Or maybe a developer can trick ex-WoW-heads into liking something they didn't think they would like?

Originally posted by ZigZags

Its ok to admit that WoW jsut does everything better than every other game does and possibly can right now....you may hate it but its true.

 

Think about this....If some game came out with a really revolutionary feature that players LOVED and talked about....Blizzard would just do it in their game where almost every MMO gamer has a character...and they would do it better, more fluid and refined. How? Because they have BILLIONS of dollars to do it with an a suprior engine capable of featuring Multiple player and computer characters on a screen without crashing your system. NO OTHER GAME OR ENGINE CAN COME CLOSE!

 

Truth hurts.

 

This is totally the truth.   I bet in 10 years, some kid is going to learn about ´pokemon´ and say.... it is just like WOW!!

The OP is a bit off base.   I think for the most part it has been the developers that have fallen into the copy trap.   The problem is  that WOW is very smooth to play.. fast reactions to keypressed,  instant visuals and a fast UI.   If developers spent more time trying to copy THOSE features they would be doing much better.   I honestly can´t play another MMORPG without it feeling sluggish.   Or games like AOC with decent graphics, but your keypresses were completely seperated from what you were seeing on the screen. 

GW2?  who cares. it doesn´t have a subscription model, why does it need pve tiers.   I don´t personally think it is anything special, and it seems it´s most únique´ feature are Rifts... buy hey hey..  don´t tell that to the fanboys.

Will be intersesting to see if it outsells MOP... should be easy right? since 8 of WOW´s 9 million subscribers are in China.. that only leaves 1M in the US to buy mop next month.

Originally posted by FealStyrm

In fact, before EQ2 and later Wow there were no mmo's with epically boring pve raids. The closest things that existed were world bosses. The only end game we had was PVP.

 

i stay here !!!

i dunno why the end game has to be a boring repititive raid against NPC and not a balanaced/funny PvP ?!?!

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Originally posted by nariusseldon

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Originally posted by Theocritus      I remember playing Rift when it was in beta and commenting "This game reminds me alot of WoW and WAR"..... ANother player then responded "as a former WoW player this is exactly what we are looking for: WoW in a different skin"

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I wouldn't mind WOW reskinned with a sci-fi setting, or a super hero setting. Hence I play DCUO.

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Swtor be perfect for you!

Originally posted by Theocritus
     I remember playing Rift when it was in beta and commenting "This game reminds me alot of WoW and WAR"..... ANother player then responded "as a former WoW player this is exactly what we are looking for: WoW in a different skin"

The 'problem' (I guess that word fits) with most MMO's today is that they say "Hey, we've got a great idea for a game, a whole world with lore and history..even some original type visuals" in hopes that their game will 'new and revitializating' to the genre. The problem is that to make the game 'the next big thing' they look to the current big things, take a bit from game A a little from Game B and a dash of C and come up with a game, where the UI will remind players of their 'old love' in hopes of hooking them. This is the way MMO's have been done ever since EQ decided "Hey! Lets take that M.U.D idea, but add GRAPHICS to it" The whole industy has been building on iteself ever since.

A good thing? Bad thing? Sometimes it's both. For the record yes, I am a WoW player and I still play the game. WoW was not my first MMO, my first was back with MUD/MUCK/MUSH before the MMO craze hit. I've had my brain picked for many games from EQ to Star Wars The Old Republic and have seen good games die a horrible death and unable to truely speak of them because of evil unending NDA's. People love the games they love for whatever reasons. The game designers make their worlds, then the companys try and take enough to make a WoW player, or EQ2 player look at their game, feel comfrtable playing it because "Well it's almost like WoW" so they will stuck around. Sometimes this works, other times people cry "WoW Clone!"

Bah...It's 5:30 in the morning, I'm insomniatic, and rambly.....Sue me :)

The industry makes change, but only so much to try and suck us 'old timers' into the 'new thing' with hints of worlds gone by. :)

Originally posted by Vorch

Please stop labeling an entire portion of the genre's community.

Without WoW's success, there would not have been a Guild Wars. GW1 was made by ex-WoW developers.

Without WoW and ex-WoW players, we would not have as diverse of a community.

Everyone is welcome at the table. Just keep your criticism constructive and don't bash games that others like. Name calling is for the unintelligent and the politicians. I know we can be better than that.

 

And guess what one of the great parts of GW2 is? Without a monthly fee, you can play GW2 as either you main MMO or alongside a sub based one. Genius!

The from you so called "ex-wow" developers had their game (GW1) ready in 2004 already while it was in development for at least 4 years so no, the success of wow has nothing to do with GW1 nor GW2.

MMOS existed at least 6 years prior to wow so there would still have been a diverse community here without it too.

That's the whole issue here, people that are praising wow THAT high that it's getting ridicoulos. -.-