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Originally posted by grapevine

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Originally posted by lizardbones  

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Originally posted by FoxyShoxzy

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Originally posted by FealStyrm It seems that every game released after 2006 encounters these same boneheads in the forums saying "I won't play that until its an exact clone of WoW".

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    I have never seen anyone say that on these forums.

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Me either. What I have seen, which is just as confusing to me, is the ire directed at the people who like GW2 or GW2 systems. For example, a post on how GW2 doesn't have traditional raids results in the people who enjoy this having insults directed at them. It seems weird to me that the game itself isn't getting 'hate', just the game's players.  

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I think you’ll find the OP is paraphrasing.

 

There’s plenty of posts made on this forum and others, stating a game is missing "must have features".  Typically they are ones that would turn them into having as WoW (clone) end-game.

 

OP is sadly right.  These people leave WoW because they are burnt out on the repetitive and easy of access end game, then complain the game they are trying doesn’t offer the same.

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Originally posted by FealStyrm

Originally posted by wartyxwt

Originally posted by FealStyrm

Originally posted by wartyxwt

Part of me hopes raids of some form make it in eventually, but then the DEs meant for 40+ people kind of cover that. However your post and tone is pretty derogatory and flamebaitish. /popcorn

 

In all seriousness though, wanting what works from other games isn't inherently a bad thing, and your view that it is I think is unhealthy and making you angry and disilusioned about the truth. As is the OP of Every. Single. Thread. Like. This.

 

The problem is that it doesn't work for other games. The only sucessful examples of the stuctured pve raid type of gameplay are basically EQ2 and WoW. There have been countless WoW-clonse in the last 6 years that have failed.

And how many of the clones are simply shit games? Yeah that's why they failed, not raiding! Not to sound too pro raids in the WoW format. I like a big multi person challenge, I dislike the grind factor.

So quit trying to turn GW2 into just another shitty wow-clone?

You are a very confused/blinded forum goer. Here's a tip, drink beer, not energy drinks mmk?

this is a age old argument that alwasy look like this...

why does X try to make every Y look/taste/smell/what ever like Z (where Z is something that holds nostalgic value for X)

My counter argument is... Why should they not. They have the same right to try and influence the market as anyone else. And as long as they are the precived majority the market will fold to them.

Rabid WoW hatred is so 2008 it's not even funny anymore. The poll is missing one important option, i.e. "The OP needs to grow up or at least l2troll".

Sorry but that's 0/10, dear OP.

I voted "Try something new".  I didn't realize that MMOs could be different than WoW and still be fun until I stepped away from it for a while.  There are a lot of great games out there that don't have raids.

I understand what the OP means with this thread, but the first post is still a bit incendiary.

Originally posted by Svarcanum

Originally posted by Kaneth

Originally posted by Svarcanum
I personally would like gw2 to be more like wow. Because I view gw2 as far superior to wow in every way except endgame. And because I like wow endgame I'll  have to stay in wow. If gw2 had more classic endgame with organization and challenges to overcome (no, explorer mode won't be hard enough, not judging from the level 30 ones) then I could finally leave wow behind. As it is now I'll be stuck with a friggin' 8 year old game. But I can see tons of people finding a new home in gw2! Me, I'll return to wow come mop.

They do have classic endgame. EQ and WoW were basically the only two mmorpgs that used raiding as an endgame for a long time.

There was a time when mmos didn't have raiding, focused on exploration, had some epic dungeons, and neat content areas to discover. Games like UO and Asheron's Call did fine without a raiding model. EVE does well without a raiding model. DAoC had some raiding, but the big appeal was RvR for the endgame.

Raiding still isn't hugely popular in WoW, with the minority actually taking part in that form of endgame. It's just all that's really reported on the news sites, and what the devs mostly focus on. There are reasons why they try to get more folks into raiding over the years, because it's not nearly as popular as we are lead to believe.

EQ, EQ2 and WoW had raiding. At the time EQ was the biggest game, and since launch of WoW it has been the biggest game. The game you mention (although great in their own right) were more niche games tbh. And it's a myth that a minority in wow is raiding. The vast majority of all level 85 characters in wow has killed at least one raid boss.

EQ didn't even have instances. Only world bosses.

Originally posted by wowfan1996

Rabid WoW hatred is so 2008 it's not even funny anymore. The poll is missing one important option, i.e. "The OP needs to grow up or at least l2troll".

Sorry but that's 0/10, dear OP.

Don't you mean 2006?

Originally posted by wartyxwt

Originally posted by FealStyrm

Originally posted by wartyxwt

Originally posted by FealStyrm

Originally posted by wartyxwt

Part of me hopes raids of some form make it in eventually, but then the DEs meant for 40+ people kind of cover that. However your post and tone is pretty derogatory and flamebaitish. /popcorn

 

In all seriousness though, wanting what works from other games isn't inherently a bad thing, and your view that it is I think is unhealthy and making you angry and disilusioned about the truth. As is the OP of Every. Single. Thread. Like. This.

 

The problem is that it doesn't work for other games. The only sucessful examples of the stuctured pve raid type of gameplay are basically EQ2 and WoW. There have been countless WoW-clonse in the last 6 years that have failed.

And how many of the clones are simply shit games? Yeah that's why they failed, not raiding! Not to sound too pro raids in the WoW format. I like a big multi person challenge, I dislike the grind factor.

So quit trying to turn GW2 into just another shitty wow-clone?

You are a very confused/blinded forum goer. Here's a tip, drink beer, not energy drinks mmk?

I actually just made this account to post this today, I rarely come to these forums because its the same discussion every day.

"Why doesn't X game have raiding!?!?" Its been that way since 2006.

I used to come here back in 2005 and actually use the forums, but now I just read the news articles.

I'm in complete agreement with the OP.  I just don't get the mindset of people who left WoW looking for something new, coming to an MMO (that clearly wants to approach the genre differently), and then lobbying to make changes so it's just like WoW.  Why'd they leave in the first place if they just want the new game to be exactly like WoW?  Makes no sense.

We've already seen complaints from this crowd about no end game raids, no gear grind, insufficient action bars, lack of "traditional" questing, and "unresponsive combat" (because it's not instant gratification button-spamming).  What's next? mounts? LFD? pandas?

The ironic part is if Anet did add all that crap to the game, the very same crowd would scoff at GW2 for being "just another WoW clone".

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Originally posted by Svarcanum

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Originally posted by Kaneth

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Originally posted by Svarcanum I personally would like gw2 to be more like wow. Because I view gw2 as far superior to wow in every way except endgame. And because I like wow endgame I'll  have to stay in wow. If gw2 had more classic endgame with organization and challenges to overcome (no, explorer mode won't be hard enough, not judging from the level 30 ones) then I could finally leave wow behind. As it is now I'll be stuck with a friggin' 8 year old game. But I can see tons of people finding a new home in gw2! Me, I'll return to wow come mop.

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They do have classic endgame. EQ and WoW were basically the only two mmorpgs that used raiding as an endgame for a long time. There was a time when mmos didn't have raiding, focused on exploration, had some epic dungeons, and neat content areas to discover. Games like UO and Asheron's Call did fine without a raiding model. EVE does well without a raiding model. DAoC had some raiding, but the big appeal was RvR for the endgame. Raiding still isn't hugely popular in WoW, with the minority actually taking part in that form of endgame. It's just all that's really reported on the news sites, and what the devs mostly focus on. There are reasons why they try to get more folks into raiding over the years, because it's not nearly as popular as we are lead to believe.

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EQ, EQ2 and WoW had raiding. At the time EQ was the biggest game, and since launch of WoW it has been the biggest game. The game you mention (although great in their own right) were more niche games tbh. And it's a myth that a minority in wow is raiding. The vast majority of all level 85 characters in wow has killed at least one raid boss.

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I am inclined to agree with your last sentence, but disagree that it invalidates the claim that raiders are a minority. It takes more than killing a raid boss to be a raider, imo. You aren't truly a raider unless you commit to regular raiding and actually enjoy it. Plenty of folks who have "killed a raid boss" are the same people who are here criticizing progression raiding, because doing it and liking it are two very different things.

Originally posted by Svarcanum

Originally posted by Kaneth

Originally posted by Svarcanum
I personally would like gw2 to be more like wow. Because I view gw2 as far superior to wow in every way except endgame. And because I like wow endgame I'll  have to stay in wow. If gw2 had more classic endgame with organization and challenges to overcome (no, explorer mode won't be hard enough, not judging from the level 30 ones) then I could finally leave wow behind. As it is now I'll be stuck with a friggin' 8 year old game. But I can see tons of people finding a new home in gw2! Me, I'll return to wow come mop.

They do have classic endgame. EQ and WoW were basically the only two mmorpgs that used raiding as an endgame for a long time.

There was a time when mmos didn't have raiding, focused on exploration, had some epic dungeons, and neat content areas to discover. Games like UO and Asheron's Call did fine without a raiding model. EVE does well without a raiding model. DAoC had some raiding, but the big appeal was RvR for the endgame.

Raiding still isn't hugely popular in WoW, with the minority actually taking part in that form of endgame. It's just all that's really reported on the news sites, and what the devs mostly focus on. There are reasons why they try to get more folks into raiding over the years, because it's not nearly as popular as we are lead to believe.

EQ, EQ2 and WoW had raiding. At the time EQ was the biggest game, and since launch of WoW it has been the biggest game. The game you mention (although great in their own right) were more niche games tbh. And it's a myth that a minority in wow is raiding. The vast majority of all level 85 characters in wow has killed at least one raid boss.

Since what point, LFR or over the past 8 years? Claiming UO was niche is funny, because it was the only mmo out at the time, and was crawling with folks, (yeah Meridian59 was out, but not many ever heard of it). Asheron's Call didn't have as big of a playerbase as other games, true. DAoC peaked around 250k though, which is roughly half of EQ around their peak, which is way more than niche.

Don't claim that EQ was popular due to raiding, sorry just isn't true. The thing that EQ1 and WoW have in most common (because they were both the kings of their era) is advertising. You couldn't go anywhere related to gaming without EQ ads all over, same for WoW. Those games were advertised for years, and it worked, but to claim that they were popular for raiding is a farce.

Take for example that less than 1% of the populace raiding in WoW classic, hence them dropping 40 mans. TBC comes out and lo and behold the most popular raid of that expansion was Karazhan, a 10 man raid, Blizzard stated as much. So they add 10 man raid progression in WotLK (which is where WoW peaked). It was pretty successful, and they kept going through until Cataclysm, but Blizzard still wasn't happy with how many were seeing the content. So they added LFR.

If raiding was as popular as you claim, Blizzard wouldn't have had a reason to keep opening it up to folks over the years. They keep making it more accessible because they wanted/needed to get more people hooked into it.

Raiding didn't make those games popular though....spending millions upon millions in advertising did.

Originally posted by FealStyrm

Don't you mean 2006?

Nah it wasn't really considered cool to hate WoW until WotLK. Some people didn't like TBC but not too many and WoW popularity was still on the rise back then.

Originally posted by Jagarid

 

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Originally posted by Svarcanum

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Originally posted by Kaneth

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Originally posted by Svarcanum I personally would like gw2 to be more like wow. Because I view gw2 as far superior to wow in every way except endgame. And because I like wow endgame I'll  have to stay in wow. If gw2 had more classic endgame with organization and challenges to overcome (no, explorer mode won't be hard enough, not judging from the level 30 ones) then I could finally leave wow behind. As it is now I'll be stuck with a friggin' 8 year old game. But I can see tons of people finding a new home in gw2! Me, I'll return to wow come mop.

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They do have classic endgame. EQ and WoW were basically the only two mmorpgs that used raiding as an endgame for a long time. There was a time when mmos didn't have raiding, focused on exploration, had some epic dungeons, and neat content areas to discover. Games like UO and Asheron's Call did fine without a raiding model. EVE does well without a raiding model. DAoC had some raiding, but the big appeal was RvR for the endgame. Raiding still isn't hugely popular in WoW, with the minority actually taking part in that form of endgame. It's just all that's really reported on the news sites, and what the devs mostly focus on. There are reasons why they try to get more folks into raiding over the years, because it's not nearly as popular as we are lead to believe.

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EQ, EQ2 and WoW had raiding. At the time EQ was the biggest game, and since launch of WoW it has been the biggest game. The game you mention (although great in their own right) were more niche games tbh. And it's a myth that a minority in wow is raiding. The vast majority of all level 85 characters in wow has killed at least one raid boss.

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I am inclined to agree with your last sentence, but disagree that it invalidates the claim that raiders are a minority. It takes more than killing a raid boss to be a raider, imo. You aren't truly a raider unless you commit to regular raiding and actually enjoy it. Plenty of folks who have "killed a raid boss" are the same people who are here criticizing progression raiding, because doing it and liking it are two very different things.

Of course that's the case. I still don't believe though that only a small minority enjoys raiding. However, most likely only a small minority books certain nights of their week to always raid.

It was a long time since I heard someone wish for a game exactly like Wow (and it was when RoM was in beta and someone said it was really close to Wow and some Wow player said he wished a game exactly like Wow but F2P).

However are there plenty of people whining when another game miss certain features from Wow. In GW2 it is usually raiding, none instanced world and gear focus that Wow players or ex Wow players complain about.

Personally I think MMOs must be more diverse and have more unique features if the genre want to survive the next 17 years as it have the last 17. The genre just can´t keep growing and evolve if all games basically are the same. And keeping all old features while adding some new ones just isnt enough.

Originally posted by FealStyrm

Originally posted by Svarcanum

Originally posted by Kaneth

Originally posted by Svarcanum
I personally would like gw2 to be more like wow. Because I view gw2 as far superior to wow in every way except endgame. And because I like wow endgame I'll  have to stay in wow. If gw2 had more classic endgame with organization and challenges to overcome (no, explorer mode won't be hard enough, not judging from the level 30 ones) then I could finally leave wow behind. As it is now I'll be stuck with a friggin' 8 year old game. But I can see tons of people finding a new home in gw2! Me, I'll return to wow come mop.

They do have classic endgame. EQ and WoW were basically the only two mmorpgs that used raiding as an endgame for a long time.

There was a time when mmos didn't have raiding, focused on exploration, had some epic dungeons, and neat content areas to discover. Games like UO and Asheron's Call did fine without a raiding model. EVE does well without a raiding model. DAoC had some raiding, but the big appeal was RvR for the endgame.

Raiding still isn't hugely popular in WoW, with the minority actually taking part in that form of endgame. It's just all that's really reported on the news sites, and what the devs mostly focus on. There are reasons why they try to get more folks into raiding over the years, because it's not nearly as popular as we are lead to believe.

EQ, EQ2 and WoW had raiding. At the time EQ was the biggest game, and since launch of WoW it has been the biggest game. The game you mention (although great in their own right) were more niche games tbh. And it's a myth that a minority in wow is raiding. The vast majority of all level 85 characters in wow has killed at least one raid boss.

EQ didn't even have instances. Only world bosses.

EQ did have instances,they came with the expansion LDON.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EverQuest:_Lost_Dungeons_of_Norrath

Oh and this is a pathetic thread,you are obsessed  with WOW like many so called GW2 fans on these forums.

"GW2 is going to best WOW"

"GW2 outsells MOP"

"Everyone person who mentions raiding in the GW2 forums is an ex WOW"

It's actually getting pathetic and fans like you just give the GW community a bad name.

Originally posted by Svarcanum

Of course that's the case. I still don't believe though that only a small minority enjoys raiding. However, most likely only a small minority books certain nights of their week to always raid.

Lineage 2 has had raids/epic raids aswell as world bosses and that game is not a failure at all and is very old.Neither is Aion.To say every game that takes that formula is a failure just is not true.

Both games might not be that big here but in other countries they are a way of life.