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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » GW2 no progressive PVE, now no progressive PVP

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120 posts found
  Serin101

Novice Member

Joined: 4/12/12
Posts: 104

8/16/12 7:58:42 PM#101
Originally posted by Kzak
Sadly with normalization, that's the way it is starting to look.

Is.....that you....bcbully? o.o


http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/359874/Aerowyns-Video-Compilation-of-ALL-things-Guild-Wars-2.html

  GamerUntouch

Novice Member

Joined: 5/11/12
Posts: 491

8/16/12 8:00:08 PM#102
You know exotic items can be crafted, right?
  User Deleted
8/16/12 8:31:04 PM#103


Originally posted by Doomedfox
It seems a lot of you GW2 fans argue that without the gear progression its the skill that will determine who wins the fight.
I can only laugh at that.
Of course in theory you are right but it would only matter in a 1 on 1 fight but how often will that happen?
The battlegrounds are group battles and the WvWvW certainly is aiming for even bigger group battles so the skill factor does not matter that much.
Now if the game would have openworld pvp than it would be a different story but it does not have open world pvp.....

That said i am rather neutral on the whole progression thing on the one hand its nice to allow everyone to be equally strong equipped on the other hand do i feel like its lacking a real goal to thrive for.

Cosmetic items don't interest me i would always awe for a really awesome armor or weapon sets that would boost my class (most of the time i would never get the pieces tho but thats a different story)

I would rather chase the really awesome carrot on a stick than a hallow carrot (fluff cosmetic items)

If it really would only be about equality and the need for skill to win they could just rate equipment and allow everyone to join pvp fights for certain ranks of equipment (you could not use rated 10 equipment in a rated 5 battle for example) this way you would have it all the carrot thats worth beeing chased and the equal fights in pvp.


I am only going to respond to the parts regarding the cosmetic items. While you might not care too much about them, many, many people will. An extremely rare cosmetic item can and will be the envy of a larger portion of the population. Looks matter to us a great deal more than we realize.
All things being equal, that guy with the really bad ass armor will be far more intimidating than someone in a common set. Color and style do have an effect on your sub-conscious mind. The player's skill should be the determining factor but how confident would you feel if your armor was hot pink or powder blue up against someone in Black? You know they are technically equal but would you feel that way?
You will want to wear gear that makes you feel like a beast, or at the very least the most comfortable based on your taste. Oddly enough the examples I used above could also provide you with a very powerful image. Look it up, Pink is a very powerful color when used properly.

The point is that you will be affected by cosmetic gear whether you believe it or not. We can't help but to covet and envy. It is a primal human instinct. We compete because those are primal animal instincts.

  Amjoco

Elite Member

Joined: 9/15/10
Posts: 3608

8/16/12 8:37:16 PM#104
Originally posted by chefdiablo

 


Originally posted by Doomedfox

I am only going to respond to the parts regarding the cosmetic items. While you might not care too much about them, many, many people will. An extremely rare cosmetic item can and will be the envy of a larger portion of the population. Looks matter to us a great deal more than we realize.
All things being equal, that guy with the really bad ass armor will be far more intimidating than someone in a common set. Color and style do have an effect on your sub-conscious mind. The player's skill should be the determining factor but how confident would you feel if your armor was hot pink or powder blue up against someone in Black? You know they are technically equal but would you feel that way?
You will want to wear gear that makes you feel like a beast, or at the very least the most comfortable based on your taste. Oddly enough the examples I used above could also provide you with a very powerful image. Look it up, Pink is a very powerful color when used properly.

The point is that you will be affected by cosmetic gear whether you believe it or not. We can't help but to covet and envy. It is a primal human instinct. We compete because those are primal animal instincts.

I agree! Good example is in WoW with all the fools and their dragons parked right in front of the bank in Stormwind. The dragons did nothing for there gear stats, yet they love to show them off! :) 

edit: snipped

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  Purutzil

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 2799

The Critical Hit Pretzel!

8/16/12 8:37:50 PM#105

Depends really. I find this negative, but then again I believe competition should be focused in a specific sector. The carot on a stick applies to me and to be blunt, combat in GW2 isn't all that spectacular after a few minutes to make me happy playing without any real 'reward' for doing so. Even FPS games are doing rewards for playing now, and having 0 to really earn makes it unsatisfying to play unless your going real competative or your gameplay is amazing. 

 

Don't get me wrong, GW2 is fun, but the gameplay isn't all that spectacular. Its just a standerd MMO with dodge... but minus any progression to keep you occupied. While no subscription helps, it won't be able to keep people playing nonstop either.

  rutaq

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/08/06
Posts: 412

8/16/12 8:38:47 PM#106
Originally posted by Kyus_HoB

unforuntunately for the great unwashed there is no hiding behind gear grinding here. you have to turn up and compete on an even footing. 

If you want progression, Tournaments, ranks and cosmetics are available in structured and PVP specific gear as well as Server rankings are available in WvW. 

My job and career is where I progress.

Video games is where I go to chill out and have fun with friends.

 

Not to intimidate you or anything.... but many of us "unwashed" enjoy the challenge to excel.  We enjoy excelling beyond just our career and actually press ourselves in all aspect even when we play games.   It is true many MMOs add a level of gear grind to PvP which seems a bit much but that is besides the fact.

 

If chilling out is what you are after that's cool, but normalization is more a crutch for the lazy and complacent that don't want to work for anything...

 Let me guess your the guy that tells his friends that you want to play poker for pennies you know.. "for fun"...  

 Or after a couple beers at the backyard BBQ everyone starts throwing the football around and ...you meekly ask, hey guys  can we play flag ?  it's just for fun, we don't want anybody to get hurt....

 

 Competition isn't based on chilling for fun....    It is about working hard, trying hard, playing hard and winning.

 

 

 

  Amjoco

Elite Member

Joined: 9/15/10
Posts: 3608

8/16/12 8:43:24 PM#107
Originally posted by Purutzil

Depends really. I find this negative, but then again I believe competition should be focused in a specific sector. The carot on a stick applies to me and to be blunt, combat in GW2 isn't all that spectacular after a few minutes to make me happy playing without any real 'reward' for doing so. Even FPS games are doing rewards for playing now, and having 0 to really earn makes it unsatisfying to play unless your going real competative or your gameplay is amazing. 

 

Don't get me wrong, GW2 is fun, but the gameplay isn't all that spectacular. Its just a standerd MMO with dodge... but minus any progression to keep you occupied. While no subscription helps, it won't be able to keep people playing nonstop either.

So you are speaking for all people? I for one won't be on your list, and I'm sure thousands of others won't be either. :) 

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  Oracle_Fefe

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/04/10
Posts: 218

Feethree

8/16/12 8:44:27 PM#108

PvP's progression isnt fully through gear. It's also through tournaments and skill.

 

Win your usual daily pickup tournaments, be able to qualify for monthly tournaments. Win your monthly tournament and you qualify for yearly tournaments. Be prepared to call your team the best of the year if you win that.

  Foomerang

Elite Member

Joined: 11/10/05
Posts: 4668

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still

8/16/12 8:46:20 PM#109


Originally posted by Amjoco

Originally posted by Purutzil Depends really. I find this negative, but then again I believe competition should be focused in a specific sector. The carot on a stick applies to me and to be blunt, combat in GW2 isn't all that spectacular after a few minutes to make me happy playing without any real 'reward' for doing so. Even FPS games are doing rewards for playing now, and having 0 to really earn makes it unsatisfying to play unless your going real competative or your gameplay is amazing.    Don't get me wrong, GW2 is fun, but the gameplay isn't all that spectacular. Its just a standerd MMO with dodge... but minus any progression to keep you occupied. While no subscription helps, it won't be able to keep people playing nonstop either.
So you are speaking for all people? I for one won't be on your list, and I'm sure thousands of others won't be either. :) 


Thousands?
Try billions
Right? Riiiiiight?

If you thought the events were dynamic, you'll think the stories are living.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10377

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

8/16/12 8:50:00 PM#110
Hmmm. The people who are happy to do something different, and the people who want to rage at them. Now! On mmorpg.com!

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  Amjoco

Elite Member

Joined: 9/15/10
Posts: 3608

8/16/12 8:50:34 PM#111
Originally posted by Foomerang

 


Originally posted by Amjoco

Originally posted by Purutzil Depends really. I find this negative, but then again I believe competition should be focused in a specific sector. The carot on a stick applies to me and to be blunt, combat in GW2 isn't all that spectacular after a few minutes to make me happy playing without any real 'reward' for doing so. Even FPS games are doing rewards for playing now, and having 0 to really earn makes it unsatisfying to play unless your going real competative or your gameplay is amazing.    Don't get me wrong, GW2 is fun, but the gameplay isn't all that spectacular. Its just a standerd MMO with dodge... but minus any progression to keep you occupied. While no subscription helps, it won't be able to keep people playing nonstop either.
So you are speaking for all people? I for one won't be on your list, and I'm sure thousands of others won't be either. :) 

Thousands?
Try billions
Right? Riiiiiight?

 

Hmm, I think thousands. Unless all of China gets accounts!  

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2608

110100100

8/17/12 3:32:31 AM#112


Originally posted by cronius77
man hearing this gear progression argument is a big laugh there was games before wow which obviously by the comments here that was obviously their first mmorpg. DAOC had zero gear progression in game for end game until trials of atlantis released and guess what people quit chasing that crap because it made the elite even eliter and impossible to kill. This game has just as much to do end game , if not more then any other game thats released since wow and thats on release not 1 year or six months down the road. You have two different types of pvp , one being large zerge vs zerge warfare and the other competitive pvp with ranks and gear. Then you have pve endgame zones that are similiar to raids in other games that are DE and effect the entire zone with how you progress. Its seriously hilarious that people are already crying about endgame progression here and havent even bothered to do any research on things to do. You have gear progression all the way to 80 and then you can chase all the gear you want even from day 1 with SPVP if gear is really your thing.

Seriously what the hell ever happened to players logging into games getting with their buddies and just going out and having fun like in the days back in eq and DAOC. Oh yeah i forgot that sespool wow released and made every mmorpg a solo gear grind that even the most casual player got tastes of purple super stat gear that made them feel elite on a video game.


difference is, you still improved your character when you played EQ and Daoc endgame.

in Daoc, instead of gear progression there were realm points to grind that gave you an advantage in RVR.

same in EQ, you could grind AA's when grouping with friends, which made your toon more powerful, even if you were not raiding at the time.

GW2 needs something like Daoc's realm points, gives people something to work for at end game and still allows you to keep making your character more powerful.

even if you only got the benefits in WVWVW

because right now, no matter how much good content they have at end game, you are not improving your character other than cosmetic upgrades and getting more skill points, which does not make you more powerful, just more versatile.

  stayBlind

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/19/06
Posts: 509

8/17/12 3:52:24 AM#113
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Kyus_HoB

unforuntunately for the great unwashed there is no hiding behind gear grinding here. you have to turn up and compete on an even footing. 

If you want progression, Tournaments, ranks and cosmetics are available in structured and PVP specific gear as well as Server rankings are available in WvW. 

My job and career is where I progress.

Video games is where I go to chill out and have fun with friends.

Not everyone is sold on cosmetics. This diesn't mean GW2 is a bad game, but for those who do not view cosmetics as a form of progression, there're questions about will GW2 be able to keep their attention.

Yea, because old school shooters didn't work this way >.>

Little forum boys with their polished cyber toys: whine whine, boo-hoo, talk talk.

  Grimrist000

Novice Member

Joined: 12/08/10
Posts: 85

8/17/12 3:53:20 AM#114
Originally posted by Kzak
Originally posted by Requiamer

OP obviously never played the game, there is a full progression in pve (gear, skills and level), there is a semi progression in World vs World pvp (gear and skill but everyone is at lv80 when entering those zones), and there is no progression at all in spvp (you get same gear, skills and lv as everyone else) but you still gain rewards though like gear skins and others stuff.

I bought GW2 and have played in beta.  In my mind, LOL is the ultimate in the gear grinding, pay-to-win game there ever was, yet it was a huge success.  So I must not be alone in what I want in a game.

i'm surprised only 1 guy responded to this. is this guy for real? i don't know about u guys but after reading this, i'm finding it hard to take this guy seriously. 

  leoo88556

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 136

8/17/12 11:41:37 AM#115

I think... and this is just me guessing... 

ArenaNet is trying to create a FPS-ish mmorpg here. By FPS I mean there's no such gun that can one shot everyone... well maybe except the snipers but if you keep using it in the wrong situation you'll die fairly soon. The pro players in any FPS game was never defined by the guns, it's the ability to make the right decision while needed that set people apart. In GW2 I feel their effort has paid of in sPVP, for some gamers that's what competitive PvP is all about. You might not like it, but you've got to admit they're breaking new grounds man!

  Wickedjelly

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/09
Posts: 5064

The Dude abides

8/17/12 11:44:55 AM#116
Originally posted by Grimrist000
Originally posted by Kzak

I bought GW2 and have played in beta.  In my mind, LOL is the ultimate in the gear grinding, pay-to-win game there ever was, yet it was a huge success.  So I must not be alone in what I want in a game.

i'm surprised only 1 guy responded to this. is this guy for real? i don't know about u guys but after reading this, i'm finding it hard to take this guy seriously. 

 I think most steered clear of it since it is such a stupid statement. Really no other way to put it and probably worried they would get modded for pointing out how idiotic that post was.

XD

1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  Lucioon

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/06
Posts: 840

8/17/12 12:01:00 PM#117
Originally posted by Medicated03
Originally posted by Mothanos

he who needs gear to win from his oponents are weak minded simpletons, dont hide behind gear.
Grab your balls play hard and desimate your oponent, when you win you can /bow and say iam better then you.


Crawl back to Aion / WoW and join them for the carrot on a stick design we have seen almost 2 decades now.


Dont buy GW2 either, you need skills to compete, think on your feet, make tactical decisions dodge their hardest nukes.
All shit is balanced around skills, not gear.


There are so many gear grinding mmo's out there, even games where you can PAY to get UBER gear.
GW2 aint like that.

[mod edit]

What many is trying to say without offending anyone is that

GW2 is trying to make Gear insignificant to determine PVP outcome

many other MMO have GEAR being an Factor in Determining PVP outcome.

Therefore GW2 puts Personal skill above Gear progression and its a good thing to many who follows GW2.

 

Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.

  Mothanos

Elite Member

Joined: 10/20/10
Posts: 1767

8/17/12 12:17:41 PM#118


Originally posted by Medicated03

Originally posted by Mothanos he who needs gear to win from his oponents are weak minded simpletons, dont hide behind gear. Grab your balls play hard and desimate your oponent, when you win you can /bow and say iam better then you. Crawl back to Aion / WoW and join them for the carrot on a stick design we have seen almost 2 decades now. Dont buy GW2 either, you need skills to compete, think on your feet, make tactical decisions dodge their hardest nukes. All shit is balanced around skills, not gear. There are so many gear grinding mmo's out there, even games where you can PAY to get UBER gear. GW2 aint like that.
Lol people like you are the reason GW2 "fanbois" are 1000 times worse than WoW fanboys, really what part of gear progression to you fail to understand to say things like this, in non buy to win games YOU DONT GET THE BEST GEAR WITH OUT SKILL ,be it PVE or PvP, in fact this whole "even" ground conept it wayyyy to debateable , im sick of seeing mindless idiots post about gear/skill.

In any real PvP or PVE game it takes skill, co ordination and dedication to get the best gear, something you seem to manage to overlook when the mindless bile spills from your stomachs, you retards who think gear games dont have matches between people with all the best gear ? then what decideds a battle ? SKILL, how do people grind the RATING in wow arena for the best gear, you cant just go out and get this kind of thing.... ?? SKILL, how do people get the BEST PVE gear in hardmodes SKILL .... man you fanbois are stupid ass fanatics .....................i dont play any Sub based MMO right now as tera failed me and dont feel anything else is worth my money but BY GOD you guys are morons


Ye skill as in defeating scripted bosses ? you think thats skill there bro ??? dont make a joke out of yourself.
After a few attempts you know where to stand, what to press and where to walk. skill ? rofl dude gtfbacktowow mofo lol :)
And tell me then, if that carrot on a stick grinding for better stats to beat oponents is realy skill ?

I bet you where one of those cry babies in wow that got carried to 2k rating and dint want other people to have the same gear as you so you could roflstomp them in warsong 24/7 and beat yourself on the chest and say dude i OWN MAN I OWN 50/1 DUDE I OWN THOSO NOOBS amiright ?

No gear progresion = all players on equal foot. period.
You win, becuase of skill. period.
You lose ? you got outplayed. period

Go back to kiddy pandaland, i hear next xpac contains Teletubbies.

http://speedtest.net/result/2112016336.png

  otacu

Novice Member

Joined: 4/08/12
Posts: 550

8/17/12 12:19:45 PM#119
Originally posted by Grimrist000
Originally posted by Kzak
Originally posted by Requiamer

OP obviously never played the game, there is a full progression in pve (gear, skills and level), there is a semi progression in World vs World pvp (gear and skill but everyone is at lv80 when entering those zones), and there is no progression at all in spvp (you get same gear, skills and lv as everyone else) but you still gain rewards though like gear skins and others stuff.

I bought GW2 and have played in beta.  In my mind, LOL is the ultimate in the gear grinding, pay-to-win game there ever was, yet it was a huge success.  So I must not be alone in what I want in a game.

i'm surprised only 1 guy responded to this. is this guy for real? i don't know about u guys but after reading this, i'm finding it hard to take this guy seriously. 

Well that's because it made clear he was just a troll.

No point in replying to such blatant trolling.

  Tekaelon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/09/08
Posts: 460

8/17/12 12:31:26 PM#120
Sck of reading comments like this   There is ample progression in GW2 so get back under your bridge. 
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