Let me start by saying that I am a huge Guild Wars 2 fan and am in no way bashing it or the fan base.
I’ve been on these forums for well over 8 years and it is simply amazing how attitudes and trends change on a very regular basis. When EQ was in its glory days it was all about raiding. If you didn’t raid you were a scrub. When WoW released, raiding was still king of the mountain. Since then many games have come and gone, raiding has remained in most of them until recently. GW2 is bringing a new type of MMO to the marketplace that has no end game raiding to speak of. On the forums for months now you see numerous posts revolving around “Thank god there is no raiding in GW2 or Raids aren’t needed”.

After reading these type posts for some time I’ve come to a realization that most people fall into a certain category of non-raiders.
There are typically a few reasons people don’t like Raiding.

• They don’t have time in real life to dedicate to an organized guild structure that it takes to raid successfully.
• They have been ridiculed in past games for their lack of skill, Example... Get out of the fire dumbass.
• They don’t have a personality to speak of so they don’t play well with others.
• They are too lazy to do the work, example… They don’t want to get the necessary gear it takes to raid

I’ve raided in every game I’ve played over the last 14 years and I absolutely love it.
I guess because I’m ex-military, I love the teamwork involved in raiding. Getting dedicated players together on a regular basis to down raid mobs is so much more fun than doing simple dynamic events.

I honestly hope Anet changes its stance in the future and brings in some type of organized raiding. Exploreable 5 man dungeons are great and all, but it’s a far cry for a raid.
If they don’t, so be it. Guild Wars 2 will be fun for awhile atleast.

Originally posted by Krimzin

Let me start by saying that I am a huge Guild Wars 2 fan and am in no way bashing it or the fan base.
I’ve been on these forums for well over 8 years and it is simply amazing how attitudes and trends change on a very regular basis. When EQ was in its glory days it was all about raiding. If you didn’t raid you were a scrub. When WoW released, raiding was still king of the mountain. Since then many games have come and gone, raiding has remained in most of them until recently. GW2 is bringing a new type of MMO to the marketplace that has no end game raiding to speak of. On the forums for months now you see numerous posts revolving around “Thank god there is no raiding in GW2 or Raids aren’t needed”.

After reading these type posts for some time I’ve come to a realization that most people fall into a certain category of non-raiders.
There are typically a few reasons people don’t like Raiding.

• They don’t have time in real life to dedicate to an organized guild structure that it takes to raid successfully.
• They have been ridiculed in past games for their lack of skill, Example... Get out of the fire dumbass.
• They don’t have a personality to speak of so they don’t play well with others.
• They are too lazy to do the work, example… They don’t want to get the necessary gear it takes to raid

I’ve raided in every game I’ve played over the last 14 years and I absolutely love it.
I guess because I’m ex-military, I love the teamwork involved in raiding. Getting dedicated players together on a regular basis to down raid mobs is so much more fun than doing simple dynamic events.

I honestly hope Anet changes its stance in the future and brings in some type of organized raiding. Exploreable 5 man dungeons are great and all, but it’s a far cry for a raid.
If they don’t, so be it. Guild Wars 2 will be fun for awhile atleast.

You missed a reason.

Raiding is only fun the first couple times you down a boss, and so people get tired of slogging through the same boss fights ad nauseum hoping for the one piece of gear to drop.

Originally posted by Krimzin

Let me start by saying that I am a huge Guild Wars 2 fan and am in no way bashing it or the fan base.
I’ve been on these forums for well over 8 years and it is simply amazing how attitudes and trends change on a very regular basis. When EQ was in its glory days it was all about raiding. If you didn’t raid you were a scrub. When WoW released, raiding was still king of the mountain. Since then many games have come and gone, raiding has remained in most of them until recently. GW2 is bringing a new type of MMO to the marketplace that has no end game raiding to speak of. On the forums for months now you see numerous posts revolving around “Thank god there is no raiding in GW2 or Raids aren’t needed”.

After reading these type posts for some time I’ve come to a realization that most people fall into a certain category of non-raiders.
There are typically a few reasons people don’t like Raiding.

• They don’t have time in real life to dedicate to an organized guild structure that it takes to raid successfully.
• They have been ridiculed in past games for their lack of skill, Example... Get out of the fire dumbass.
• They don’t have a personality to speak of so they don’t play well with others.
• They are too lazy to do the work, example… They don’t want to get the necessary gear it takes to raid

I’ve raided in every game I’ve played over the last 14 years and I absolutely love it.
I guess because I’m ex-military, I love the teamwork involved in raiding. Getting dedicated players together on a regular basis to down raid mobs is so much more fun than doing simple dynamic events.

I honestly hope Anet changes its stance in the future and brings in some type of organized raiding. Exploreable 5 man dungeons are great and all, but it’s a far cry for a raid.
If they don’t, so be it. Guild Wars 2 will be fun for awhile atleast.

Whew! I thought most people complained due to the level of elitism, the lack of patience by, and the overall poor attitude of the people that raided.  Seeing that it's the non-raiders fault due to being a thin skinned, lazy, basement dweller makes everything so much easier to understand!  BTW, I still think raiding is over rated.

You also forgot the people who hate it because people get such a hard-on about raiding that it stops being fun and instead becomes a job.

I used to think raiding was "fun" and "epic" until every started forgetting it was a game you play for fun and took it so damn serious it became a 2nd job.

its called fotm.

new game comes out, and the hype that people frenzy themselves into leaves them blind to anything that their new flagship doesnt champion.

Yeah...definetly forgot a reason there

-You have raided since EverQuest and through World of Warcraft and you simply are burnt out from the raiding experience.

Originally posted by Krimzin

*Cut*

• They don’t have time in real life to dedicate to an organized guild structure that it takes to raid successfully.

It's not the time for guild structure its the never ending grind. That time is the put off.
• They have been ridiculed in past games for their lack of skill, Example... Get out of the fire dumbass.

LOL, This was so me on Wotlk on krick and ick on the forge of souls w/ the poisin lmao.
• They don’t have a personality to speak of so they don’t play well with others.
• They are too lazy to do the work, example… They don’t want to get the necessary gear it takes to raid

It's not that we are lazy, if it was like an old school rpg like idk....Wild Arms and i knew that i was going to get an item that i needed after 2+ hours to do one raid i would be all in. However, you might have to raid the same dungeon 50+ times and that is to much of my life gone that i can never get back.
I’ve raided in every game I’ve played over the last 14 years and I absolutely love it.

You didn't raid in RO.
I guess because I’m ex-military, I love the teamwork involved in raiding. Getting dedicated players together on a regular basis to down raid mobs is so much more fun than doing simple dynamic events.

I have a medal of national defence and was a 19delta, and i could care less about teamwork. However as a scout the only thing the other 5 people did for me that i was usualy in trenches with was make sure i could sleep. I did return the favor however.

I honestly hope Anet changes its stance in the future and brings in some type of organized raiding. Exploreable 5 man dungeons are great and all, but it’s a far cry for a raid.
If they don’t, so be it. Guild Wars 2 will be fun for awhile atleast.

Agreed.

Tomato/Tamaato. 

Originally posted by Grimlock426

You missed a reason.

Raiding is only fun the first couple times you down a boss, and so people get tired of slogging through the same boss fights ad nauseum hoping for the one piece of gear to drop.

This.

I've been raiding in WoW for a long time, my guild has been server first quite a long time too, and I totally agree with Grimlock. The first few times are challenges, after that, it's just mindless gear grinding because you have 25 people you have to equip when each boss only drops 2 or 3 items.

It's not the challenge of raiding that people dislike. It's the repetition.

Also:

Originally posted by Krimzin

• They don’t have time in real life to dedicate to an organized guild structure that it takes to raid successfully.
• They have been ridiculed in past games for their lack of skill, Example... Get out of the fire dumbass.
• They don’t have a personality to speak of so they don’t play well with others.
• They are too lazy to do the work, example… They don’t want to get the necessary gear it takes to raid

Except point 1 which is valid, this is just an insulting and stupid generalization, but sadly a typical attitude among raiders. They think they are some kind of special, superior race. I'm glad I've never been infected by that crap mindset, even when we were clearing heroics like if they were normals.

Note that I'm not saying that raiding doesn't require skill and focus, but please, stop stupid generalizations about people you don't know.

Originally posted by Krimzin

Let me start by saying that I am a huge Guild Wars 2 fan and am in no way bashing it or the fan base.
 

I’ve been on these forums for well over 8 years and it is simply amazing how attitudes and trends change on a very regular basis. When EQ was in its glory days it was all about raiding. If you didn’t raid you were a scrub. When WoW released, raiding was still king of the mountain. Since then many games have come and gone, raiding has remained in most of them until recently. GW2 is bringing a new type of MMO to the marketplace that has no end game raiding to speak of. On the forums for months now you see numerous posts revolving around “Thank god there is no raiding in GW2 or Raids aren’t needed”.

After reading these type posts for some time I’ve come to a realization that most people fall into a certain category of non-raiders.
There are typically a few reasons people don’t like Raiding.

• They don’t have time in real life to dedicate to an organized guild structure that it takes to raid successfully.
• They have been ridiculed in past games for their lack of skill, Example... Get out of the fire dumbass.
• They don’t have a personality to speak of so they don’t play well with others.
• They are too lazy to do the work, example… They don’t want to get the necessary gear it takes to raid

I’ve raided in every game I’ve played over the last 14 years and I absolutely love it.
I guess because I’m ex-military, I love the teamwork involved in raiding. Getting dedicated players together on a regular basis to down raid mobs is so much more fun than doing simple dynamic events.

I honestly hope Anet changes its stance in the future and brings in some type of organized raiding. Exploreable 5 man dungeons are great and all, but it’s a far cry for a raid.
If they don’t, so be it. Guild Wars 2 will be fun for awhile atleast.

.....wait....what?

And I love the use of "work" here.  I know raiding is work.  I had worked at it since 1999.  Enough is enough.

Originally posted by Krimzin

• They don’t have time in real life to dedicate to an organized guild structure that it takes to raid successfully.

You started off good, but then you switched to all insults...
• They have been ridiculed in past games for their lack of skill, Example... Get out of the fire dumbass.

Or raids are ridiculously easy after a certain point, and the games force yout o stay in them through gating mechanics and raid timers.
• They don’t have a personality to speak of so they don’t play well with others.

Or they're annoyed by the large amounts of retards and drama queens that are raiding... I'm sure there are guilds without those, but all my raid-centric friends seem to deal with them on a weekly basis.
• They are too lazy to do the work, example… They don’t want to get the necessary gear it takes to raid

Alternatively, they play games to have fun, because they work enough already.  Playing games to have fun isn't lazy, it just means you'd rather work in meaningful things.  Like having a family, a job.... hell, building macrame handcrafts to sell on Etsy is more meaningful than gear grinding and raiding in an MMORPG, since it makes money.

I only raided in wow up to Tempest keep I think, with kael thas. I even took over the guild and led the raids for a time. It had it's moments, usually thanks to vent and the guildies. My problems where:

-Too much drama over loot or raid slots,perhaps the leading edge raid guilds didn't have this issue since they have a list of ppl waiting to get in.

-Too much time needed to farm buffs/pots/food just in preparation for said raid.

-Too difficult to get so many people to commit to showing up at the same time every week.

-And finally the gear grind, perhaps I enjoyed the raids the first couple times. Once you reach farm mode though, how can anyone enjoy that. Sure I enjoyed talking with the guildies, but the game was a snoozefest during those times.

Just my 2 cents.

I don't like raiding because it's a repetitive grind to keep  you on a game when there's really no reason to stay.

I prefer interesting reasons to stay rather than repitition.

Well it's not like everyone loves raiding or everyone hates raiding.

Different people different tastes.

But the new thing is that finally "no raiders" fans have a quality mmorpg to play. It's all about variety in the market :)

Btw it's true that Gw2 doesn't have "instanced" raids... but there is still plenty of open world raids to play. And Orr!

Can't wait to raid Orr...

Originally posted by Krimzin

Let me start by saying that I am a huge Guild Wars 2 fan and am in no way bashing it or the fan base.
I’ve been on these forums for well over 8 years and it is simply amazing how attitudes and trends change on a very regular basis. When EQ was in its glory days it was all about raiding. If you didn’t raid you were a scrub. When WoW released, raiding was still king of the mountain. Since then many games have come and gone, raiding has remained in most of them until recently. GW2 is bringing a new type of MMO to the marketplace that has no end game raiding to speak of. On the forums for months now you see numerous posts revolving around “Thank god there is no raiding in GW2 or Raids aren’t needed”.

After reading these type posts for some time I’ve come to a realization that most people fall into a certain category of non-raiders.
There are typically a few reasons people don’t like Raiding.

• They don’t have time in real life to dedicate to an organized guild structure that it takes to raid successfully.
• They have been ridiculed in past games for their lack of skill, Example... Get out of the fire dumbass.
• They don’t have a personality to speak of so they don’t play well with others.
• They are too lazy to do the work, example… They don’t want to get the necessary gear it takes to raid

I’ve raided in every game I’ve played over the last 14 years and I absolutely love it.
I guess because I’m ex-military, I love the teamwork involved in raiding. Getting dedicated players together on a regular basis to down raid mobs is so much more fun than doing simple dynamic events.

I honestly hope Anet changes its stance in the future and brings in some type of organized raiding. Exploreable 5 man dungeons are great and all, but it’s a far cry for a raid.
If they don’t, so be it. Guild Wars 2 will be fun for awhile atleast.

The game has open world raids.

Moreover, there are dozens of games that have instanced raids, go play one of them. Stop trying to change this game to fit your preference.

Originally posted by Krimzin

... On the forums for months now you see numerous posts revolving around “Thank god there is no raiding in GW2 or Raids aren’t needed”.

I guess you also noticed that these posts started to appear in response to the nn'th: "LOL - No endgame in GW2" post?

I am quite pleased that Anet won't spend a massive amount of dev-time on a rather small playersegment. I definately prefer that they stay with their own design instead of trying to tack on raids, geargrind and all the other staples of stereotypical MMO's of yesteryear.

For some reason, the way you formulated your 4 classifications of "non-raiders", made me quite content that most raiders will be playing other games.

Raiding is not about gear.

Gear is there to give developers enough time to push out new content.

Originally posted by Krimzin

Let me start by saying that I am a huge Guild Wars 2 fan and am in no way bashing it or the fan base.
I’ve been on these forums for well over 8 years and it is simply amazing how attitudes and trends change on a very regular basis. When EQ was in its glory days it was all about raiding. If you didn’t raid you were a scrub. When WoW released, raiding was still king of the mountain. Since then many games have come and gone, raiding has remained in most of them until recently. GW2 is bringing a new type of MMO to the marketplace that has no end game raiding to speak of. On the forums for months now you see numerous posts revolving around “Thank god there is no raiding in GW2 or Raids aren’t needed”.

After reading these type posts for some time I’ve come to a realization that most people fall into a certain category of non-raiders.
There are typically a few reasons people don’t like Raiding.

• They don’t have time in real life to dedicate to an organized guild structure that it takes to raid successfully.
• They have been ridiculed in past games for their lack of skill, Example... Get out of the fire dumbass.
• They don’t have a personality to speak of so they don’t play well with others.
• They are too lazy to do the work, example… They don’t want to get the necessary gear it takes to raid

I’ve raided in every game I’ve played over the last 14 years and I absolutely love it.
I guess because I’m ex-military, I love the teamwork involved in raiding. Getting dedicated players together on a regular basis to down raid mobs is so much more fun than doing simple dynamic events.

I honestly hope Anet changes its stance in the future and brings in some type of organized raiding. Exploreable 5 man dungeons are great and all, but it’s a far cry for a raid.
If they don’t, so be it. Guild Wars 2 will be fun for awhile atleast.

What I think everyone is forgetting is that Guild Wars 2 does have its own version of Raid content.

Here are some raid boss examples:

1. Shatterer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUVLclPDCBE

2. Tequatl the Sunless

http://youtu.be/_1JfSbKjHHI?t=1m55s

3. An example of a low level taste of a raid boss in the human zone.

http://youtu.be/kFKFqzRhXKs?t=1m20s

4. Another smaller type raid boss fight in the charr lower level zone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7pdNci5HxY

5. Norn low level raid boss fight

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bycGGyAWkRA

these are just a few examples of Raid type content within Guild Wars 2.

I personally experienced both the Shadow Behemoth and the Cyclops and can tell you out of the last 15 years of raiding I've done hardcore I've not had as much fun as I did coordinating the battles of these two mini bosses....

I love raiding and I'm happy as hell that the RAID content within Guild Wars 2 is open for everyone to experience not just a select few who can get a good enough guild to do them.

I'm not gonna quote the OP and criticize every little thing he said like some of you did. I don't think that's nice, he's just stating his opinion (even though he sounded like an ass).

I just wanna point out that I spent the whole BWE 2 doing explorable dungeon runs and I've never had to strategize so much in a game in my life. You really have to push yourself and think, work with your teammates, work the enviroment.

It's not like TSW dungeons, for example, where you have to have cookie cutter builds and memorize enemy attacks and everybody wipes if they don't have the right timing or the perfect trinity. You CAN play with any professions and any build you want, but every time you play it, you're gonna have to adapt and play it differently.

That, for me, is better than traditional raiding could ever be.