Originally posted by Mothanos

he who needs gear to win from his oponents are weak minded simpletons, dont hide behind gear.
Grab your balls play hard and desimate your oponent, when you win you can /bow and say iam better then you.

Crawl back to Aion / WoW and join them for the carrot on a stick design we have seen almost 2 decades now.

Dont buy GW2 either, you need skills to compete, think on your feet, make tactical decisions dodge their hardest nukes.
All shit is balanced around skills, not gear.

There are so many gear grinding mmo's out there, even games where you can PAY to get UBER gear.
GW2 aint like that.

Originally posted by bcbully Not everyone is sold on cosmetics. This diesn't mean GW2 is a bad game, but for those who do not view cosmetics as a form of progression, there're questions about will GW2 be able to keep their attention.

Originally posted by OldManFunk
PvP progression? Can anyone explain why anybody would want PvP progression (ie gear based PvP)?

Originally posted by Praetalus
By that, is the OP talking about gear grinding and raiding? Cause if so I say good riddance...

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Kyus_HoB

unforuntunately for the great unwashed there is no hiding behind gear grinding here. you have to turn up and compete on an even footing. 

If you want progression, Tournaments, ranks and cosmetics are available in structured and PVP specific gear as well as Server rankings are available in WvW. 

My job and career is where I progress.

Video games is where I go to chill out and have fun with friends.

Not everyone is sold on cosmetics. This diesn't mean GW2 is a bad game, but for those who do not view cosmetics as a form of progression, there're questions about will GW2 be able to keep their attention.

Good riddence to the grind i completely agree! and there IS progression here, it's just not gear-centric so they don't understand it.

Exactly, the progression is from skill points you allocate into the slots that give your toon more abilities more powerful abilities. People are just trying to make the game look stupid when it's actually quite brilliant a design all because they themselves can't handle the skill requirement.

and finally, do we really need to use old style HTML code to post, what's happening to the text editor on this site, i have mine set to enhanced and it's asking me in plain text to use code markers.

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Kuppa

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Mothanos

he who needs gear to win from his oponents are weak minded simpletons, 

 

You see I have never once died and said "He must have better gear than me" I've always felt that way of thinking was a cop out. I felt the same way when people used to say in WoW "if we had arena weapons the field will be leveled" WoW gave them the gear. Hear me now WoW gave them the gear. They didn't have to earn it through progession in skill, it was gifted to them. They were happy though. The gear is all they really wanted. They didn't care about a level playing field. The gear was always there for them. They just had to get better. Guess what? When those players who used gear as an excuse got the gear. Those players were still bad. 

 

I embrace the challenge. 

 

I guess there is also a very niche crowd aside from those who want gear to beat on people just because they have spent more time in the game and those who want an equal footing. This other niche crowd(which bcbully seems to be a part of) is the ones who like the "challenge" in going up against folks with better gear than them. Sounds kind of not really challenging, but ok.

 

issue is most gear dependent pvp you only have a chance against people pretty close to your gear tier... For instance in Rift when it had 8 ranks a rank 4 had no chance on a rank 8 one on one many times my rank 8 could take on 4 or 5 low rankers at a time... Not a whole lot of challenge in that...

 

We've had this conversation before. We can rehash it though. RIFT was extreme in the beginning from rank one to rank eight. Like you said though rank five and beyond gear became less of a factor. What's wrong with giving those rank fivers something more than cosmetic to reach for?

I feel a sense of deja vu with this thread.

We have known this for the past 2 years...if you don't like it, don't play it. Pretty simple.

Guild Wars 1 has been around for 7 years with a similar system.

Progression in the form of stats and stats on gear isn't now or have ever been something I wanted in what I will call structered pvp.

Give me titles or accomplishments to work for and I am a happy camper. Couple that with searching for distinctive ways to essentially dress my character like it's fashion week in New York, I'm even happier.

Majority of sports on the planet regulate equipment used to a baseline and that's where skill sets(learned or natural ability) are king. Strategy and tactics equal boss. Why should it be any different in this atmosphere?

Your true progression is that as a player you improve. When you reach a level that you feel you are no longer having fun, or not seeing proper competition, do what most ppl do...move on. And then do what most ppl do....return sometime down the road only to learn you're not good anymore and the progression starts again.

As far as pve progression....well, since the entire game is essentially only really a few levels, enjoy the world presented to you. Besides, the trait system modifies how your character defends itself, which is just a different take on giving you bigger numbers to look at onscreen.

Originally posted by Mardukk

Originally posted by Mothanos

he who needs gear to win from his oponents are weak minded simpletons, dont hide behind gear.
Grab your balls play hard and desimate your oponent, when you win you can /bow and say iam better then you.

Crawl back to Aion / WoW and join them for the carrot on a stick design we have seen almost 2 decades now.

Dont buy GW2 either, you need skills to compete, think on your feet, make tactical decisions dodge their hardest nukes.
All shit is balanced around skills, not gear.

There are so many gear grinding mmo's out there, even games where you can PAY to get UBER gear.
GW2 aint like that.

 

Hate to tell you all but console games were all about "even ground" for 30+ years. Character building hasn't had near the amount of titles. Just wanted to remind the console crowd how nice they've had it throughout the years. It is nice to see an MMO cater to these people, now they can stay occupied and not complain about character building in other MMO's.

I don't think you understand GW2 very well.

Thank god for that, ubber items have no place in pvp. They should offer you great looking costume but not ubber items that will help you beat new players with ease.

This will be my new pvp game and the best part, im allowed to take a break to try new games and stil be competive when i return. People wont outgear me so i dont need to spend 1 month farming new pvp gear to compete.

Progressive pvp is a double edge sword, good to retain people but also very bad to get returning costumers.

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Kyus_HoB

unforuntunately for the great unwashed there is no hiding behind gear grinding here. you have to turn up and compete on an even footing. 

If you want progression, Tournaments, ranks and cosmetics are available in structured and PVP specific gear as well as Server rankings are available in WvW. 

My job and career is where I progress.

Video games is where I go to chill out and have fun with friends.

Not everyone is sold on cosmetics. This diesn't mean GW2 is a bad game, but for those who do not view cosmetics as a form of progression, there're questions about will GW2 be able to keep their attention.

I'll take:  "Horizontal Scaling is more fair and a hundred times better for long-term sustainment" for $100 Alex.

Originally posted by Onomic

Thank god for that, ubber items have no place in pvp. They should offer you great looking costume but not ubber items that will help you beat new players with ease.

This will be my new pvp game and the best part, im allowed to take a break to try new games and stil be competive when i return. People wont outgear me so i dont need to spend 1 month farming new pvp gear to compete.

Progressive pvp is a double edge sword, good to retain people but also very bad to get returning costumers.

 Yeah...it is going to be pretty cool.

Have to say though that from what I have seen Forge seems like it may be a really cool PvP game as well. Far as PvP goes I may eventually end up switching between the two. That game won't be dealing with tiered itemization either.

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Kyus_HoB

unforuntunately for the great unwashed there is no hiding behind gear grinding here. you have to turn up and compete on an even footing. 

If you want progression, Tournaments, ranks and cosmetics are available in structured and PVP specific gear as well as Server rankings are available in WvW. 

My job and career is where I progress.

Video games is where I go to chill out and have fun with friends.

Not everyone is sold on cosmetics. This diesn't mean GW2 is a bad game, but for those who do not view cosmetics as a form of progression, there're questions about will GW2 be able to keep their attention.

Which is why all those recent releases have done so well on retention... oh wait. 

Clearly, if you're a gear treadmill raider GW2 is just not for you. I'm wondering, however, how sustainable that a la wow treadmill really is for any game that's not wow...

OP obviously never played the game, there is a full progression in pve (gear, skills and level), there is a semi progression in World vs World pvp (gear and skill but everyone is at lv80 when entering those zones), and there is no progression at all in spvp (you get same gear, skills and lv as everyone else) but you still gain rewards though like gear skins and others stuff.

Originally posted by mustang2750
There should NEVER be gear progression PvP like WoW w no skill involved whatsoever. With that said there should be some type of progression ala DAOC w real abilities that are PvP specific with at least some type of rank levels for titles or something. I am 100% against gear progression but there should be something to work for personally on ur char other than server pride (unfortunately most ppl could care less).

Ps. I am strictly talking WvWvW here as i have absolutely no intrest in sPvP/Arena style World of Warcraft crap.

Regarding WvWvW pvp abilities:

If you add in abilities that are pvp centric that you gain as you "rank up" in pvp, you might as well add pvp gear.  Asthetics, titles, anything that does not effect pvp combat, sure.  I know people want some kind of progression but that (I believe) is not the way to go.  You end up with people who have an advantage.  That is against what the game is about:  pvp decided by skill.

It will be good for balanced PvP. Just like in RTS or FPS, there is no vertical progression (usually). Just the horizontal one.

The PvP aspect of the game will be fun and I am really looking forward to playing WvWvW, but when I look at the game as a whole, I find it extremely shallow because of this. As much as the RTS / FPS I mentioned. It is what makes me curious about the longevity of the game.

In an MMORPG, there has to be some sort of vertical progression which does not necessarily mean a gear grind. The progression can take many forms, like skill levels, profession levels, crafting, gear drops...simply anything that makes your character stronger (not crafting cosmetics).

Why would you want that...to have advantage over new players, so you can gank them in PvP? Of course not. For me, huge part of MMORPG is my character's development. The more interesting it is, the more attractive the game is, for me. Without character development, the game is not interesting since it lacks depth and mostly a point. GW sacrificed all this for balance in PvP.

The PvP would not be balanced like that. New player who joins will not be as strong as someone who is playing the game for  a year, but it is ok since not every MMO is about one big battleground or structured PvP. Not every MMO desires to be an e-sport.

I wonder if this is really the future of MMOs as people claim in this section of the forum. Maybe for some people, it really is. As soon as we all hit max level and the gear cap, we just all meet in a huge battleground where we are all balanced, so we can just PvP nonstop. It kind of reminds me of MOBA games. I find it surprising for how many people the ultimate top concern in an MMO is balance between players. Should an MMO be only about skills, so it can become an e-sport like SC?

Nice side game for sure just like a RTS / FPS, but if the MMORPGs were all to turn into this, it would sooner or later mean an end of MMO gaming for me.

/in my opinion

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Kyus_HoB

unforuntunately for the great unwashed there is no hiding behind gear grinding here. you have to turn up and compete on an even footing. 

If you want progression, Tournaments, ranks and cosmetics are available in structured and PVP specific gear as well as Server rankings are available in WvW. 

My job and career is where I progress.

Video games is where I go to chill out and have fun with friends.

Not everyone is sold on cosmetics. This diesn't mean GW2 is a bad game, but for those who do not view cosmetics as a form of progression, there're questions about will GW2 be able to keep their attention.

And those people that are obsessed with gear-stat chasing and don't care about cosmetics, thinking it's stupid:  well, "this is not the game you're looking for."   Those people shouldn't be in this game because they'll get to 80 really fast, bypassing most content, and complain that there's "nothing to do" and the game is "pointless".  Those people are NOT the target audience and really shouldn't waste their time or bother other people who enjoy the game with their crazed rantings.