Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Mothanos

he who needs gear to win from his oponents are weak minded simpletons, 

 

You see I have never once died and said "He must have better gear than me" I've always felt that way of thinking was a cop out. I felt the same way when people used to say in WoW "if we had arena weapons the field will be leveled" WoW gave them the gear. Hear me now WoW gave them the gear. They didn't have to earn it through progession in skill, it was gifted to them. They were happy though. The gear is all they really wanted. They didn't care about a level playing field. The gear was always there for them. They just had to get better. Guess what? When those players who used gear as an excuse got the gear. Those players were still bad. 

 

I embrace the challenge. 

If the gear in WoW doesn't actually matter then how is it any different?

Originally posted by Kzak
Sadly with normalization, that's the way it is starting to look.

 Well this is actually what some are looking forward to. Depends on the gamer. I like it myself. Besides there are plenty of other games out there if you want gear to be the overriding factor in PvP.

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Mothanos

he who needs gear to win from his oponents are weak minded simpletons, 

 

You see I have never once died and said "He must have better gear than me" I've always felt that way of thinking was a cop out. I felt the same way when people used to say in WoW "if we had arena weapons the field will be leveled" WoW gave them the gear. Hear me now WoW gave them the gear. They didn't have to earn it through progession in skill, it was gifted to them. They were happy though. The gear is all they really wanted. They didn't care about a level playing field. The gear was always there for them. They just had to get better. Guess what? When those players who used gear as an excuse got the gear. Those players were still bad. 

 

I embrace the challenge. 

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by Kzak
Sadly with normalization, that's the way it is starting to look.

 Well this is actually what some are looking forward to. Depends on the gamer. I like it myself. Besides there are plenty of other games out there if you want gear to be the overriding factor in PvP.

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Kyus_HoB

unforuntunately for the great unwashed there is no hiding behind gear grinding here. you have to turn up and compete on an even footing. 

If you want progression, Tournaments, ranks and cosmetics are available in structured and PVP specific gear as well as Server rankings are available in WvW. 

My job and career is where I progress.

Video games is where I go to chill out and have fun with friends.

Not everyone is sold on cosmetics. This diesn't mean GW2 is a bad game, but for those who do not view cosmetics as a form of progression, there're questions about will GW2 be able to keep their attention.

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by Kzak
Sadly with normalization, that's the way it is starting to look.

 Well this is actually what some are looking forward to. Depends on the gamer. I like it myself. Besides there are plenty of other games out there if you want gear to be the overriding factor in PvP.

 

Not overriding factor, but a motivational factor to learn and progress as pvpr. GW2 has a carrot never mistake that, That cosmetic carrot may not be as fulfilling to some though. If my garden hoe is as effective as your flaming sword of brilliance, I would probably look at you like you over paid for that thing.

Originally posted by Kuppa

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Mothanos

he who needs gear to win from his oponents are weak minded simpletons, 

 

You see I have never once died and said "He must have better gear than me" I've always felt that way of thinking was a cop out. I felt the same way when people used to say in WoW "if we had arena weapons the field will be leveled" WoW gave them the gear. Hear me now WoW gave them the gear. They didn't have to earn it through progession in skill, it was gifted to them. They were happy though. The gear is all they really wanted. They didn't care about a level playing field. The gear was always there for them. They just had to get better. Guess what? When those players who used gear as an excuse got the gear. Those players were still bad. 

 

I embrace the challenge. 

 

I guess there is also a very niche crowd aside from those who want gear to beat on people just because they have spent more time in the game and those who want an equal footing. This other niche crowd(which bcbully seems to be a part of) is the ones who like the "challenge" in going up against folks with better gear than them. Sounds kind of not really challenging, but ok.

Originally posted by Kuppa

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Mothanos

he who needs gear to win from his oponents are weak minded simpletons, 

 

You see I have never once died and said "He must have better gear than me" I've always felt that way of thinking was a cop out. I felt the same way when people used to say in WoW "if we had arena weapons the field will be leveled" WoW gave them the gear. Hear me now WoW gave them the gear. They didn't have to earn it through progession in skill, it was gifted to them. They were happy though. The gear is all they really wanted. They didn't care about a level playing field. The gear was always there for them. They just had to get better. Guess what? When those players who used gear as an excuse got the gear. Those players were still bad. 

 

I embrace the challenge. 

 

I guess there is also a very niche crowd aside from those who want gear to beat on people just because they have spent more time in the game and those who want an equal footing. This other niche crowd(which bcbully seems to be a part of) is the ones who like the "challenge" in going up against folks with better gear than them. Sounds kind of not really challenging, but ok.

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by Kzak
Sadly with normalization, that's the way it is starting to look.

 Well this is actually what some are looking forward to. Depends on the gamer. I like it myself. Besides there are plenty of other games out there if you want gear to be the overriding factor in PvP.

 

Not overriding factor, but a motivational factor to learn and progress as pvpr. GW2 has a carrot never mistake that, That cosmetic carrot may not be as fulfilling to some though. If my garden hoe is as effective as your flaming sword of brilliance, I would probably look at you like you over paid for that thing.

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by Kzak
Sadly with normalization, that's the way it is starting to look.

 Well this is actually what some are looking forward to. Depends on the gamer. I like it myself. Besides there are plenty of other games out there if you want gear to be the overriding factor in PvP.

 

Not overriding factor, but a motivational factor to learn and progress as pvpr. GW2 has a carrot never mistake that, That cosmetic carrot may not be as fulfilling to some though. If my garden hoe is as effective as your flaming sword of brilliance, I would probably look at you like you over paid for that thing.

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Kuppa

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Mothanos

he who needs gear to win from his oponents are weak minded simpletons, 

 

You see I have never once died and said "He must have better gear than me" I've always felt that way of thinking was a cop out. I felt the same way when people used to say in WoW "if we had arena weapons the field will be leveled" WoW gave them the gear. Hear me now WoW gave them the gear. They didn't have to earn it through progession in skill, it was gifted to them. They were happy though. The gear is all they really wanted. They didn't care about a level playing field. The gear was always there for them. They just had to get better. Guess what? When those players who used gear as an excuse got the gear. Those players were still bad. 

 

I embrace the challenge. 

 

I guess there is also a very niche crowd aside from those who want gear to beat on people just because they have spent more time in the game and those who want an equal footing. This other niche crowd(which bcbully seems to be a part of) is the ones who like the "challenge" in going up against folks with better gear than them. Sounds kind of not really challenging, but ok.

 

issue is most gear dependent pvp you only have a chance against people pretty close to your gear tier... For instance in Rift when it had 8 ranks a rank 4 had no chance on a rank 8 one on one many times my rank 8 could take on 4 or 5 low rankers at a time... Not a whole lot of challenge in that...

The thing is that people keep asking and whining about gear in GW2, there is gear yes, cosmetic, you can pimp the way your character looks, thats as far as that carrot goes, you dont need it to become powerfull.
The power is between your ears, not in stats you need to farm over and over and over again.

Man i met a mesmer and warrior when walking solo to a keep, they both died it was not my gear that made sure i won versus those 2 guys, it was the way i used my skills and dodges.

Ive also lost to a ranger who completely owned me as i dint know how to fight him and he used his skills perfectly.

That is for me the most rewarded experience i will ever get playing an mmo.

Do you guys know how much games i needed to play in random battlegrounds (SOTA COUGH COUGH) with random noobs who dont give a shit about teamwork, but just farm kills for 2 honor a pop...

Game after game after game you get nothing but scrubs who make your exprience of PvP horrible.

I played Aion also, and its even worse, your chanses if winning versus a geared guy who played a year longer then you are zero.

I coulnt even made a dent in his health as all i was seeing is (resisted) (resisted) then you get 1 shotted....

Gw2 is that game where the most competitive pvp players will hang out for at least a few years.
Iam not saying iam a pro player, but damn people, accept that Arenanet wants every1 to be on even ground.

Originally posted by Kyus_HoB

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by Kzak
Sadly with normalization, that's the way it is starting to look.

 Well this is actually what some are looking forward to. Depends on the gamer. I like it myself. Besides there are plenty of other games out there if you want gear to be the overriding factor in PvP.

 

Not overriding factor, but a motivational factor to learn and progress as pvpr. GW2 has a carrot never mistake that, That cosmetic carrot may not be as fulfilling to some though. If my garden hoe is as effective as your flaming sword of brilliance, I would probably look at you like you over paid for that thing.

 

It also has a fun carrot thats pretty tasty too :D!

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Kuppa

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Mothanos

he who needs gear to win from his oponents are weak minded simpletons, 

 

You see I have never once died and said "He must have better gear than me" I've always felt that way of thinking was a cop out. I felt the same way when people used to say in WoW "if we had arena weapons the field will be leveled" WoW gave them the gear. Hear me now WoW gave them the gear. They didn't have to earn it through progession in skill, it was gifted to them. They were happy though. The gear is all they really wanted. They didn't care about a level playing field. The gear was always there for them. They just had to get better. Guess what? When those players who used gear as an excuse got the gear. Those players were still bad. 

 

I embrace the challenge. 

 

I guess there is also a very niche crowd aside from those who want gear to beat on people just because they have spent more time in the game and those who want an equal footing. This other niche crowd(which bcbully seems to be a part of) is the ones who like the "challenge" in going up against folks with better gear than them. Sounds kind of not really challenging, but ok.

 

Kup you say a lot of things that are smart and I'll even go as far to say empirical at times, but this has to be one of your most unempirical pseudo smart post you have ever made.

Presenting people who don't believe that gear is the sole factor determining winning and losing as a small group not representative of the pvp base as a whole is an unbelievably misconstured and insulting to the pvp community as a whole.

To top it off you say fighting when odds are against you is not a challenge? You can do better than this kup.

Does any of this make GW2 bad? No not at all. Will this affect retintion? We will see.

I don't believe it is a big group of people, but that is just my opinion of it. I just don't see people in mmos saying "man, screw gear Im going in and fighting with whichever gear I have!". Its more along the lines of "ya, I gotta grind some pvp gear then Ill get in there". As far as challenging, I just find it more frustrating because not many games will allow you to do this. Most gear based pvp games I've played if you are undergeared there is no way for you to win, you have to at least be close in gear to stand a chance.

I believe GW2s system has a good chance, if we've learned anything from games that follow this system its that its got retention.

In short

Your level 80 blues that you got from a merchant are equal in power to the level 80 blues you can craft.

\/ Increase in Power \/

the level 80 greens from a mob drop are equal to the level 80 greens you can get from a karma vendor

\/ Increase in power \/

lvl 80 yellow from dungeons are equal to lvl 80 yellow from a badge of honor vendor.

\/ Increas in Power \/

Golds and Legendaries are the same level these are of course rarer and require more work especially legendaries so if you get a legendary it will be as powerful as a gold.

The reason this is so good in PVE and WvW is that you can progress in differnet areas equally and there isn't huge gear stat inflation, just enough to make it worthwhile.

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Kyus_HoB

unforuntunately for the great unwashed there is no hiding behind gear grinding here. you have to turn up and compete on an even footing. 

If you want progression, Tournaments, ranks and cosmetics are available in structured and PVP specific gear as well as Server rankings are available in WvW. 

My job and career is where I progress.

Video games is where I go to chill out and have fun with friends.

Not everyone is sold on cosmetics. This diesn't mean GW2 is a bad game, but for those who do not view cosmetics as a form of progression, there're questions about will GW2 be able to keep their attention.