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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] The Secret World: A Complex Issue for Funcom

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131 posts found
  Grunties

Novice Member

Joined: 9/16/07
Posts: 871

8/15/12 12:56:03 PM#41
Originally posted by Dakirn

 

I'm so tired of hearing people wishing that a game will fail.. they don't even take into consideration what they're asking for.  They're asking for hundreds of employees to lose their jobs and ability to provide for their families.. simply because they don't "like" the game or have some deep set grudge against the company because of a game you played 5 years ago.

 

If you don't like a game, state your reasoning and move on.. don't spend your time bashing the game and wishing for failure.  It doesn't help the industry at all.

 

MMO developers have to be some of the most selfless people on the planet to work such long hours for very average pay to make a game that so many people end up hating, wishing for the failure or of wishing personal bodily harm to those who work on it.

-1 Sorry I gotta disagree with this, I think its you that might not see the big picture.  Your 'emotional appeal' aside, there are some very very good reasons why some companies going away would be to the benefit of everyone and to the genre as a whole. It is not an all or nothing thing of course, it depends entirely on the qualities of the companies and the games they make. But if a company is bad, puts out poor quality products, treats its customers poorly and participates in shady business practices... why exactly does it deserve to keep doing business? Just because 'people' are employed there? Just because there is some minority of fans that like it? More damage is being done by keeping them in business. I don't wish death or pain on anyone, I would be surprised if anyone did, but I certainly don't want companies like that in business.

Now, I post rarely on the TSW forums, because I wasn't foolish enough to buy it after I didn't enjoy the trial. I was however foolish enough to buy Funcoms previous mmos Anarchy Online and Age of Conan and I was active in those forums. Their previous titles were released in poor working condition, without features the devs themselves claimed were in and fully working. People who brought attention to these problems were silenced by funcom and its fans. Myself and many others were overcharged on our credit cards ahead of the billing date (thank god for chargebacks, nice try FC). The devs shamelessly told players to go out and rate their games a 10 on various review sites to pump up their ratings. They put all their effort into polishing the entry areas of the game to trick players into getting those initial subscriptions and then leave everything mid-late game to post launch updates. They blow lots of money on advertising for the same reason. I could go on but I won't.

So.. why should a company that lies, steals, and goes about their business this way a good thing for the industry? The fact is its not.. its only good for Funcom. But don't worry, I won't be hanging around the forums to drill that concept into people that still don't get it, that company has wasted enough of my time.

Waiting for: A skill-based MMO with Freedom and Consequence.
Woe to thee, the pierce-ed.

  User Deleted
8/15/12 12:59:02 PM#42
Originally posted by Ahil6

First and last time I will buy a lifetime sub for a game. Lesson learned.

:(

 

Stick with it.  New issues each month means for a few days/weeks you can check in and see something new for the game.  Trust me.  It's not going anywhere.  Just play and have fun when you can, knowing that you bought the lifetime for a reason and that reason is still there and being improved upon.

  volvoxaureus

Novice Member

Joined: 5/29/12
Posts: 29

8/15/12 1:01:18 PM#43

good point also the players comments are bad sometimes (just because they are haters)!!!

same happent to me with Diablo 3 i read many comments that saying is bad but today i tried free trial and i said DO NOT READ COMMENTS FROM IDIOTS ANYMORE!!!! If i like it i play it and the opinion of others is ZERO!!!! Now i have to buy D3 :)

 

and for F2P there is always a catch

  User Deleted
8/15/12 1:02:47 PM#44
Originally posted by Grunties
Originally posted by Dakirn

 

I'm so tired of hearing people wishing that a game will fail.. they don't even take into consideration what they're asking for.  They're asking for hundreds of employees to lose their jobs and ability to provide for their families.. simply because they don't "like" the game or have some deep set grudge against the company because of a game you played 5 years ago.

 

If you don't like a game, state your reasoning and move on.. don't spend your time bashing the game and wishing for failure.  It doesn't help the industry at all.

 

MMO developers have to be some of the most selfless people on the planet to work such long hours for very average pay to make a game that so many people end up hating, wishing for the failure or of wishing personal bodily harm to those who work on it.

-1 Sorry I gotta disagree with this, I think its you that might not see the big picture.  Your 'emotional appeal' aside, there are some very very good reasons why some companies going away would be to the benefit of everyone and to the genre as a whole. It is not an all or nothing thing of course, it depends entirely on the qualities of the companies and the games they make. But if a company is bad, puts out poor quality products, treats its customers poorly and participates in shady business practices... why exactly does it deserve to keep doing business? Just because 'people' are employed there? Just because there is some minority of fans that like it? More damage is being done by keeping them in business. I don't wish death or pain on anyone, I would be surprised if anyone did, but I certainly don't want companies like that in business.

Now, I post rarely on the TSW forums, because I wasn't foolish enough to buy it after I didn't enjoy the trial. I was however foolish enough to buy Funcoms previous mmos Anarchy Online and Age of Conan and I was active in those forums. Their previous titles were released in poor working condition, without features the devs themselves claimed were in and fully working. People who brought attention to these problems were silenced by funcom and its fans. Myself and many others were overcharged on our credit cards ahead of the billing date (thank god for chargebacks, nice try FC). The devs shamelessly told players to go out and rate their games a 10 on various review sites to pump up their ratings. They put all their effort into polishing the entry areas of the game to trick players into getting those initial subscriptions and then leave everything mid-late game to post launch updates. They blow lots of money on advertising for the same reason. I could go on but I won't.

So.. why should a company that lies, steals, and goes about their business this way a good thing for the industry? The fact is its not.. its only good for Funcom. But don't worry, I won't be hanging around the forums to drill that concept into people that still don't get it, that company has wasted enough of my time.

 

You sir are the problem.  You're exactly what the first part of the article is talking about.

I can never understand anyone whom takes gaming and companies so serious and with such venom.

  Ichmen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/15/06
Posts: 1236

hatred enriches.life is a prison, death a release.

8/15/12 1:03:55 PM#45

frankly i didnt mind TSW i thought it was a rather well polished game when i played the weekend cbt. sure some of the quests had bugs or were a pain in the ass to decode to compete but it was alright gameplay wise.  i dont get why people hate it so much :/  people are soo finical on games now days. its got to have dx9999999 graphics and be 100% destructive while being compeletly sexual in nature with full loot pvp ect ect... 

but then they get it and dont want it cause its not what THAT person wants :/ 

kind sucks. tsw was/is fun for some people but others hate it.. and the ones who do bash on it :/  instead of just moving on. 

CPU: Intel Core i7 CPU 860 2.8GHz
Evga GeForce 670 FTW
Evga P55 SLI

<

  Tibernicus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/15/12
Posts: 437

8/15/12 1:04:37 PM#46
Originally posted by jdnyc
Originally posted by Tibernicus
 

You're coming from a point of ignorance. What you deem as "trash" comments are usually made by Veteran MMORPG players who judge modern MMOs by the same standards as old MMOs. And compared to old MMOs, modern MMOs are SEVERELY lacking in the features that make an MMO an MMO. Most are shallow, uninspired, generic, and boring. But to someone new to the genre, they may be enticed for a time.

 

And you coming from a point of jaded elitism honestly.  When you trash a game or pile on - you are affecting other peoples' lives.  The problem for me isn't when a game deserves it, but can you honestly say that TSW deserves to cease to exist, as well as the company that made it.  Has Funcom done such a horrible job that everyone should lose their jobs? 

If you make a bad product, it doesn't deserve to succeed. Much less a bad product that is dishonest and as obviously money grubbing as TSW. That's capitalism. Do I WANT people to lose their jobs? No. But that's what happens when you make a bad product.

And no, I'm not coming from a point of "jaded elitism". I'm coming from a point of experience. I measure all MMOs against what MMOs are billed to be. Some games don't measure up, others do. Most of the ones that did measure up were released before 2003. A few are newer, like Vanguard and Darkfall.

  Jaedor

Elite Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 1015

8/15/12 1:09:13 PM#47

This was a good article, but it feels like there's a lot left out. I'm guessing that's largely related to the fact that we are not Funcom insiders so can only speculate. I never played a Funcom game before TSW so had no preconceived notions of the game or the company. I had planned to buy GW2 and then saw some tidbit about TSW and pre-ordered on a whim.

 

I was fortunate to get into the beta fairly early and was frankly stunned in a negative way about some of the content. Being naive, I was glad it was "only beta" so the general public wouldn't see the mess that was character creation, significantly askew combat animations, cutscenes with characters so scary looking I'd close my eyes.

 

You can imagine my nerdrage then to see reviews after launch talking about things that existed in closed beta but were fixed before launch. I knew those reviews were lies, and I knew the reviewers hadn't been back into the game because the things they complained about were fixed.

 

I feel bad for Funcom, because stockholders and investors feed on drama and emotional rollercoaster rides. Yes, it's more of a niche game and I can see several costly marketing type mistakes. But TSW is a great game that deserves better.

 
  Boraell

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/17/06
Posts: 83

8/15/12 1:14:31 PM#48
Originally posted by Tibernicus

 

You're coming from a point of ignorance. What you deem as "trash" comments are usually made by Veteran MMORPG players who judge modern MMOs by the same standards as old MMOs. And compared to old MMOs, modern MMOs are SEVERELY lacking in the features that make an MMO an MMO. Most are shallow, uninspired, generic, and boring. But to someone new to the genre, they may be enticed for a time.

Well i've been playing MMO's since the mid 90's and dial-up and I agree with him,  the majority of user comments on this site are either trash or elitism. I see the same posters bashing every new game that comes out, usually based on a preview or interview not on experience, and saying how eveything was sooooooo much better in their day, guess they forgot about all the kill stealing, camp stealing, cockblocking, constant grind etc etc.

  TalulaRose

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/27/12
Posts: 472

8/15/12 1:16:21 PM#49
Originally posted by Tibernicus
Originally posted by TalulaRose
Originally posted by Tibernicus
Originally posted by TalulaRose
Originally posted by Dakirn

This was a good article.

 

I'm so tired of hearing people wishing that a game will fail.. they don't even take into consideration what they're asking for.  They're asking for hundreds of employees to lose their jobs and ability to provide for their families.. simply because they don't "like" the game or have some deep set grudge against the company because of a game you played 5 years ago.

 

If you don't like a game, state your reasoning and move on.. don't spend your time bashing the game and wishing for failure.  It doesn't help the industry at all.

 

MMO developers have to be some of the most selfless people on the planet to work such long hours for very average pay to make a game that so many people end up hating, wishing for the failure or of wishing personal bodily harm to those who work on it.

 

It's sad to read so much, especially on this site.. especially in an industry where something "new" is rare.  Everyone wants a company to try something different and then hope for their failure at the same time.

This site needs to start doing a better job at moderating its community. Most of the times its a band wagon mentlity of trashing a game for lolz.

Trashing a game because it's a bad game.

We hope for games to fail so that there's a positive change in the industry. Those developers will ultimately be the ones to suffer either way, so long as publishers that don't know what they're doing are dictating what the devs are making.

When I first came to this site I was like..this is amazing...now I can find a new MMO. Started reading the reviews...not bad......read the user comments and was......is any game worth playing? For the first few months I had the impression that 99%of the games listed on this site were trash. I thought this was strange and tried the games that interested me. 

Now I think that 99% of the user comments are trash.

 

You're coming from a point of ignorance. What you deem as "trash" comments are usually made by Veteran MMORPG players who judge modern MMOs by the same standards as old MMOs. And compared to old MMOs, modern MMOs are SEVERELY lacking in the features that make an MMO an MMO. Most are shallow, uninspired, generic, and boring. But to someone new to the genre, they may be enticed for a time.

I use to put more weight into Veteran MMO gamers comments vs the reviews on this site. Reasoning being someone who plays the game should have a better understanding vs someone who has only dabbled. That has not been my experience.

Now I look for comments from certain posters only because they have a track record of actually having substance.

Most times most of the comments is just trolling in the guise of contributing to the topic. I have learned to do this myself, I can admit it. The pvp forum wars are some of the best entertainment while at work but I feel they drive potential players away. Not only from games but from the genre..and I do feel bad for contributing to it.

FYI, my first MMO was EQ before Sony acquired it. Try not to sound so pompous, you come across as one of those posters I am talking about.

  Gorilla

Old School

Joined: 6/07/04
Posts: 2218

8/15/12 1:17:03 PM#50
Originally posted by jdnyc
Originally posted by Kuppa
The aricle was OK. But I could not stand your f2p rant, I just don't agree with it. You basically made the f2p transition look like the greatest evil that could happen to a game.

Traditionally F2P is lower quality and for those that get into the game, end up paying more for an MMO.  I present exhibit A) Allods Online.

Also, I just don't agree with you.  He didn't say all F2P models do that, he said there was a potential for that to happen - thanks to investor pressure.  And he's right.

I would say historically f2p was lower quality. We are where we are now and that is AAA's using micro transactions as thir revenue model. Allods was a rip off pure and simple in any case that is a straw man argument. I could present exhibits b) lotro c) Conan d) ...well you get the picture. Oh and they are certainly equal 'quality' to any other AAA, TSW included.

I don't often agree with Smedly but I think he is probablly right SWTOR will likely be the last major MMO to use a sub model.

  Xstatic912

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/20/11
Posts: 367

8/15/12 1:26:31 PM#51
This is why the game should have been F2P from the start.. I said it before, the game isn't bad nor is it great, but I don't see some persons wanting to pay beyond 2 or 3 months, no matter how much content and updates you throw at it..

On a personal note, I hate clothes (armor) its nothing to awwww at, the weapons design are cool and all.. Combat gets boring fast, which can be because of the animation etc...

Now the biggest gripe, because these guys work for a wall street company, the expectations for this was set so high that it was kinda doom before before launch.. I don't know how much sub they were expecting but I was saying I hope it doesn't need alot because it will never get it, and to make matters worse you had a veteran sub base game readying to launch only a few months after this, plus you have a damn good B2P being release also.. Person were either going to use this game as s hold over until those game launches or just try it out for the free month..

I blame Funcom really for expecting too high and just offering a lifetime and sub model payment.. Greed will only get you so far and the mmo crowd is more hard to please now than it did years ago..
  Agent_Joseph

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/11/06
Posts: 975

8/15/12 1:27:10 PM#52

prolly ,TSW ll be F2P next year after first expansion , it is Funcom business model,look AO

 

F2P isnot sight of faillure ,it is simple new trend in mmo market and easy way for get money

 

only EVE is real MMO...but I am impressive with TSW

  s1fu71

Novice Member

Joined: 12/08/10
Posts: 220

8/15/12 1:32:41 PM#53

I very much agree with the section of "The Informed Consumer."

There are so many games I would have never tried if I only read reviews.

And many times I've been pleasantly surprised. This game is one of those times.

I've always wanted a modern horror game to play. And the first horror stories I ever read

were, Lovecraft.

It's not about fighting, it's about balance. It's not about enlightenment, it's about balance. It's not about balance.

  Razeekster

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 7/09/11
Posts: 2041

May the game be ever in your favor.

8/15/12 1:33:02 PM#54
One of the reasons Funcom isn't doing as well as expected is because many people are scared to give Funcom another chance after other mistakes they've made. I'm one of those people who isn't willing to waste money on a company that's had a bumpy history. 

Smile

  Xstatic912

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/20/11
Posts: 367

8/15/12 1:38:57 PM#55
@ Jaedor

it is a good game but just like Eve it wasn't gonna appeal to the masses like they were hoping. I just wish the guys who made this game were independent like Trion, so they would have been ok carving out a little piece of the mmo market for itself and can survive off that...
  BarCrow

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/25/07
Posts: 2226

8/15/12 1:43:04 PM#56
Originally posted by Tibernicus
Originally posted by TalulaRose
Originally posted by Tibernicus
Originally posted by TalulaRose
Originally posted by Dakirn

This was a good article.

 

I'm so tired of hearing people wishing that a game will fail.. they don't even take into consideration what they're asking for.  They're asking for hundreds of employees to lose their jobs and ability to provide for their families.. simply because they don't "like" the game or have some deep set grudge against the company because of a game you played 5 years ago.

 

If you don't like a game, state your reasoning and move on.. don't spend your time bashing the game and wishing for failure.  It doesn't help the industry at all.

 

MMO developers have to be some of the most selfless people on the planet to work such long hours for very average pay to make a game that so many people end up hating, wishing for the failure or of wishing personal bodily harm to those who work on it.

 

It's sad to read so much, especially on this site.. especially in an industry where something "new" is rare.  Everyone wants a company to try something different and then hope for their failure at the same time.

This site needs to start doing a better job at moderating its community. Most of the times its a band wagon mentlity of trashing a game for lolz.

Trashing a game because it's a bad game.

We hope for games to fail so that there's a positive change in the industry. Those developers will ultimately be the ones to suffer either way, so long as publishers that don't know what they're doing are dictating what the devs are making.

When I first came to this site I was like..this is amazing...now I can find a new MMO. Started reading the reviews...not bad......read the user comments and was......is any game worth playing? For the first few months I had the impression that 99%of the games listed on this site were trash. I thought this was strange and tried the games that interested me. 

Now I think that 99% of the user comments are trash.

 

You're coming from a point of ignorance. What you deem as "trash" comments are usually made by Veteran MMORPG players who judge modern MMOs by the same standards as old MMOs. And compared to old MMOs, modern MMOs are SEVERELY lacking in the features that make an MMO an MMO. Most are shallow, uninspired, generic, and boring. But to someone new to the genre, they may be enticed for a time.

He's not coming from ignorance. He's coming from experience. He tried the games despite the comments and apparently found some games unworthy of the poor comments. Doesnt matter what the commentors mindsets are...how old they are..or how THEY judge games. It matters to Talularose how Talularose judges a game. He probably judges them by whether he likes them, has fun, or not and judges comments from others about a game on whether he agrees with them or not. At least..if he's like me he does.

  erictlewis

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/08/08
Posts: 3059

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results.

8/15/12 2:01:01 PM#57

Well if anybody has ever read my rants in the past about failcom  you know how I feel about failcom.  

However I was at a friends house he showed me the game, and I went and picked it up.  I am only playing 2-3 days out of the week as kind of a curiosity.

The game is ok,  however compared to aoc it is great.

The only problem is funcom still has the failcom word attached to it.  And if it goes free to play well that just shows they missed the target audience they were aiming for.

I have subscribed but it is not my main mmo by a long shot.  I still play eq2 as my main game and tsw is no even in the same arena as soe.

 

  Grunties

Novice Member

Joined: 9/16/07
Posts: 871

8/15/12 2:10:36 PM#58
Originally posted by jdnyc

You sir are the problem.  You're exactly what the first part of the article is talking about.

I can never understand anyone whom takes gaming and companies so serious and with such venom.

Ethics and accountability are very important concepts in many walks of life, including the business world. They are not unique to gaming companies by any stretch. They have far reaching implications and they serve an important function for maintaining a positive business and customer relationship. If someone prefers to ignore those things because they only care about having another game to play, thats their perogative. My opinion is that such a position is selfish and shortsighted, but to each their own I guess.

If people who care about those things are the problem I would hate to hear what you think the solution is...

Waiting for: A skill-based MMO with Freedom and Consequence.
Woe to thee, the pierce-ed.

  CassSmith

Novice Member

Joined: 6/02/05
Posts: 16

8/15/12 2:11:47 PM#59

F2P can be done appallingly with no regard to the player past being a cash cow, these are the games that are doomed to fail, however.... it can be done really well also, with the attitude of pumping out all they can for the player to keep their interest.

I love TSW to death but my one issue with it is that it requires university knowledge/research skills, unless you use a walkthrough...... I used to love this but it seems investigation missions have got increasingly hard, they were fun in Kingsmouth/Savage Coast, other than the story component, I sadly cant say the same for Egypt.

cleamarshall Xfire Miniprofile
  User Deleted
8/15/12 2:16:39 PM#60
Originally posted by Grunties
 

If people who care about those things are the problem I would hate to hear what you think the solution is...

Forums shouldn't be a venue for personal axes to grind.  Save that for your blog.  :)

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