Originally posted by laokoko

So what's the budget of GW2.  Ok you dont' know!

You keep saying about GW2 being AAA or whatever.  and you don't even know how much the development cost is.

So how much is the development cost of GW2?  20m?30m?50m?80m?100m?150m?  Can you even give me any resonable estimate of it?  NO!!!! No one knows

 

And like I told you before, we don't need to know the exact amount.  What we do know is how much SWTOR cost and it can be used as a comparison.  Comparing GW2 to something like R.O.S.E or Aika?....lol.

If that's your only argument to what I've said, you absolutely fail.  

---

Originally posted by MorpheusMJW
Hello all,

Usually the business model of a MMO is either F2P with cash shop or subscription model with lower cost purchase. I haven't seen barely any mention on this on the forums, other than when the prices were first announced, so does that mean it is now acceptable to charge £50-120 for an MMO and then tap a cash shop on as well?

 

I could be more forgiving if the cash shop was just more bank slots like in GW1, but paying for character slots, when I have just purchased a £50 game is a bit greedy in my opinion. Add to that genuine advantages (regardless of how large or small and I know they can be very small advantages) people can get from purchasing consumable items, it seems ridiculous to me to even have these items, Arenanet already stand to make around £100million just for box sales alone (a conservative difference between the amount of prepurchases and beta accounts active)

 

I can already imagine people posting 'The cash shop is optional and the advantages aren't even that significant'. Regardless of how significant they are, people have the option to run 25% faster than me, even after me paying £50 for a game.

Its like paying £40 for FIFA and then they have a cash shop for all players in squad to run 25% faster, doesn't seem fair for me. I think the initial purchase should make it so everyone is on a level playing field. Don't get me wrong, I'm really looking forward to playing, but this is the only thing that disappoints me.

 

So what do people think, is it now acceptable to charge £50+ for a game and then adding a cash shop?

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To be honest, These days in general i like the microtransaction systems.

For example, I would purchase a "premium class" in a ftp game and play that on and off at my leisure rather than pay the monthly "instalments"

Does that work out cheaper? that's hard to say, but at least that gives me freedom to choose when and if I buy modular packages.

Not so much into buying "usable items" its a hidden trap, once you buy those things you lose the "drive" to continue playing games that praise gear progression.

--------------------------------
Guild wars 2:

Still haven't decided on weather i will purchase this or not, But if i did i would probably buy stuff from the shop for "real money" - lets face it buying stuff from the shop directly supports developers and if you enjoy the product what's wrong with investing in your fun?

Originally posted by rykim86

Originally posted by laokoko

So what's the budget of GW2.  Ok you dont' know!

You keep saying about GW2 being AAA or whatever.  and you don't even know how much the development cost is.

So how much is the development cost of GW2?  20m?30m?50m?80m?100m?150m?  Can you even give me any resonable estimate of it?  NO!!!! No one knows

 

And like I told you before, we don't need to know the exact amount.  What we do know is how much SWTOR cost and it can be used as a comparison.  Comparing GW2 to something like R.O.S.E or Aika?....lol.

If that's your only argument to what I've said, you absolutely fail.  

I dont' think GW2 even cost much for development.  First of all Anet though independent is still under NCSoft.  NCsoft with it's resource and being a well managed company will keep the cost low.  And if GW2 is even high budget it'll already release it's development cost.

Wow 50m, Tera 50m, Aion 25m, C9 18m, allods 12m.  Maybe you think all comapnies are like APB or Bioware which stupidly toast hundred million around.

Some people on google even guess GW2 to cost 10m. 

And my question to you is you think APB should cost 100m, or 150m for SWTOR?

And my question is why dont' GW2 publish it's development cost.  Most games do.  Maybe it dont' cost much, that's why it's a widely hide secret.

-------------------------------------

Nevermind, after reading the post below me, I finally understood and everything you say is right...

I read nothing in this thread.

Just want to add my 2 cents.  Anything GW2 does is acceptable, dont you know

GW2 will cure cancer, and solve the world economy, while feeding Africa and taking out Kony, all while destroying the drug cartel in Mexico

Originally posted by MosesZD

Originally posted by VirgoThree
It's not so bad really. There are plenty of single player games that have cash shop like DLC such as Dead Space as an example. You can pay cash for overpowered weapons and breeze through the game. Granted it's not multiplayer but I find that to be more strange since it is singleplayer.

 

OMG.   Dragon Age Origins had a cash shop in the game.   As a vendor.   I'm like 'cool, there's a vendor at my camp.'  Followed by "OMG, WTFBBQ!!!"   That was the last (except the SWTOR mistake) full-retail BioWare game ever.   I have plenty of good games, waiting a year to buy the game on a super deep discount (if at all) suits me fine.

Newsflash, somethings not a cash SHOP if you dont buy anything from it.

An npc talking about DLC =/= cash shop.

And he wasnt a vendor either, just a dude.

Originally posted by warmaster670

Originally posted by MosesZD

Originally posted by VirgoThree
It's not so bad really. There are plenty of single player games that have cash shop like DLC such as Dead Space as an example. You can pay cash for overpowered weapons and breeze through the game. Granted it's not multiplayer but I find that to be more strange since it is singleplayer.

 

OMG.   Dragon Age Origins had a cash shop in the game.   As a vendor.   I'm like 'cool, there's a vendor at my camp.'  Followed by "OMG, WTFBBQ!!!"   That was the last (except the SWTOR mistake) full-retail BioWare game ever.   I have plenty of good games, waiting a year to buy the game on a super deep discount (if at all) suits me fine.

Newsflash, somethings not a cash SHOP if you dont buy anything from it.

 

An npc talking about DLC =/= cash shop.

 

And he wasnt a vendor either, just a dude.

was totally a vendor, click on him and presto, instant invitation to buy stuff, the only good thing is that 'much later on' they sold the whole DA;O thing with all the DLC included, at less than the original price, patience has its virtues eh.. anyway, saying something is not a cash shop if you don't buy from it, is like saying churches don't exist if you don't believe in god, i think the whole B2P or F2P thing, a cash shop is a necessary evil, you don't have to use them, but, their there, and in GW2's case, they are a feature that will hopefully make the game profitable, Arenanet believe it will, and as its their game, they should know.

Originally posted by Phry

Originally posted by warmaster670

Originally posted by MosesZD

Originally posted by VirgoThree
It's not so bad really. There are plenty of single player games that have cash shop like DLC such as Dead Space as an example. You can pay cash for overpowered weapons and breeze through the game. Granted it's not multiplayer but I find that to be more strange since it is singleplayer.

 

OMG.   Dragon Age Origins had a cash shop in the game.   As a vendor.   I'm like 'cool, there's a vendor at my camp.'  Followed by "OMG, WTFBBQ!!!"   That was the last (except the SWTOR mistake) full-retail BioWare game ever.   I have plenty of good games, waiting a year to buy the game on a super deep discount (if at all) suits me fine.

Newsflash, somethings not a cash SHOP if you dont buy anything from it.

 

An npc talking about DLC =/= cash shop.

 

And he wasnt a vendor either, just a dude.

was totally a vendor, click on him and presto, instant invitation to buy stuff, the only good thing is that 'much later on' they sold the whole DA;O thing with all the DLC included, at less than the original price, patience has its virtues eh.. anyway, saying something is not a cash shop if you don't buy from it, is like saying churches don't exist if you don't believe in god, i think the whole B2P or F2P thing, a cash shop is a necessary evil, you don't have to use them, but, their there, and in GW2's case, they are a feature that will hopefully make the game profitable, Arenanet believe it will, and as its their game, they should know.

I think DA:O is not necessarily a good comparison for the cash shop dlc argument. Last I recall majority of the DLC was extra content. If that vendor was selling DLC that were along the lines of dead space such as pay real money for phat gear, skins and etc then yeah I'd call that a straight up cash shop.

Honestly, this is one of those arguments that can go either way forever because there is a lot up to interpretation.

Originally posted by VirgoThree

Originally posted by Phry

Originally posted by warmaster670

Originally posted by MosesZD

Originally posted by VirgoThree
It's not so bad really. There are plenty of single player games that have cash shop like DLC such as Dead Space as an example. You can pay cash for overpowered weapons and breeze through the game. Granted it's not multiplayer but I find that to be more strange since it is singleplayer.

 

OMG.   Dragon Age Origins had a cash shop in the game.   As a vendor.   I'm like 'cool, there's a vendor at my camp.'  Followed by "OMG, WTFBBQ!!!"   That was the last (except the SWTOR mistake) full-retail BioWare game ever.   I have plenty of good games, waiting a year to buy the game on a super deep discount (if at all) suits me fine.

Newsflash, somethings not a cash SHOP if you dont buy anything from it.

 

An npc talking about DLC =/= cash shop.

 

And he wasnt a vendor either, just a dude.

was totally a vendor, click on him and presto, instant invitation to buy stuff, the only good thing is that 'much later on' they sold the whole DA;O thing with all the DLC included, at less than the original price, patience has its virtues eh.. anyway, saying something is not a cash shop if you don't buy from it, is like saying churches don't exist if you don't believe in god, i think the whole B2P or F2P thing, a cash shop is a necessary evil, you don't have to use them, but, their there, and in GW2's case, they are a feature that will hopefully make the game profitable, Arenanet believe it will, and as its their game, they should know.

I think DA:O is not necessarily a good comparison for the cash shop dlc argument. Last I recall majority of the DLC was extra content. If that vendor was selling DLC that were along the lines of dead space such as pay real money for phat gear, skins and etc then yeah I'd call that a straight up cash shop.

Honestly, this is one of those arguments that can go either way forever because there is a lot up to interpretation.

True enough, and honestly the whole DLC thing seems a bit dodgy to me, expansion packs that add new islands or whatever thats fine, GW1 had the right idea with that imo, the problem is that DA;O DLC pretty much was the whole phat loot thing, lots of extra 'bits' that gave you huge item drops that made the rest of the game a hell of a lot easier. i think players might think better of Bioware if they didnt keep doing all this DLC thing and actually had them in the game to begin with, especially after the whole ME3 debacle, in that respect, i truly think that Cash shops are a more 'honest' approach, so im tempted to think that despite the fact i don't like cash shops all that much, Arenanet are probably on the right track with their own.

Not really directed to the OP but he does fall into this.

When did ANet start forcing people to play GW2 ?

Last i checked it was a choice to pay for a game and continue to play it and or pay for it. If the B2P with CashShop is so bothersome maybe move on to another game ?

Same with lack of raiding, lack of Trinity, lack of pandas or pokemon. I just find it so odd, with the glut of MMOs' available why does GW2 have to conform to everyone elses idea ? 

If the game bothers you so much that you feel the need to troll the forums of the game, umm don't play it.

Or there is something else at play here, the trolls are afraid that GW2 will ruin the populations of there game so they make a vain attempt to try and influence others from buying it ? I dunno maybe i need a tinfoil hat on ?

Originally posted by laokoko

I dont' think GW2 even cost much for development.  First of all Anet though independent is still under NCSoft.  NCsoft with it's resource and being a well managed company will keep the cost low.  And if GW2 is even high budget it'll already release it's development cost.

Nope.  ArenaNet became a subsidiary for a reason.  For NCSofts resources.  And what the hell do you mean they'll release their development cost?  They're only legally bound to tell their bosses and shareholders.  Very, very doubtful they would tell anyone else, including media outlets.

Wow 50m, Tera 50m, Aion 25m, C9 18m, allods 12m.  Maybe you think all comapnies are like APB or Bioware which stupidly toast hundred million around.

Hmmm, when did WoW and Aion and a few others start development?  Oh yeah, before the global recession kicked everyone a new one.  

And you're still thinking ArenaNet gets all of the profit from box sales.  Laughable.

Some people on google even guess GW2 to cost 10m. 

And here's your regular "BECAUSE I GOOGLED IT" comment.

And my question to you is you think APB should cost 100m, or 150m for SWTOR?

No.  They never should've cost that much.  But with an IP like Star Wars, of course everything will cost more.  But you're moronic if you think GW2 didn't, at minimum, cost $50million.  

And my question is why dont' GW2 publish it's development cost.  Most games do.  Maybe it dont' cost much, that's why it's a widely hide secret.

Why?  Why the fuck would any company of that size publicly display their revenue stream?  Okay, you're making it very apparent now just how ignorant you are of business practices.  Dear Lord.  This isn't a film.

Originally posted by Xzen

None of the boosts work in PvP. PvE only.

25% run speed is still a huge difference when you're kiting a tough mob. Just saying.

Originally posted by MisterSr
People want the world and to have to pay nothing for it. Yeah sure the purchasing price

See how your post makes no sense?

Originally posted by laokoko

....  

I dont' think GW2 even cost much for development.  First of all Anet though independent is still under NCSoft.  NCsoft with it's resource and being a well managed company will keep the cost low.  And if GW2 is even high budget it'll already release it's development cost.

Wow 50m, Tera 50m, Aion 25m, C9 18m, allods 12m.  Maybe you think all comapnies are like APB or Bioware which stupidly toast hundred million around.

Some people on google even guess GW2 to cost 10m. 

And my question to you is you think APB should cost 100m, or 150m for SWTOR?

And my question is why dont' GW2 publish it's development cost.  Most games do.  Maybe it dont' cost much, that's why it's a widely hide secret.

-------------------------------------

Nevermind, after reading the post below me, I finally understood and everything you say is right...

 

I think its time to get real ! 10 mill for developing GW2 ???? naive or ignorant?

This is what Jeff Strain says in 2007 about how to create a succesfull MMO.

http://www.guildwars.com/events/tradeshows/gc2007/gcspeech.php

"If you are starting today and don't have at least three years and $30 million dollars, consider developing in another genre".

Jeff Strain is one of the founders of ArenaNet. Basicly what he is implying is that GW2 is not using less.

The numbers he talks about is the minimum. GW2 took 5 years, not 3 and ended up having around twice the numbers of developers working on it that what he said they had in 2007, where it was 140. 

So if 30 millions is his estimate for 3 years, 50 mill could be ours for 5 years, double the developers numbers working in the last years could account for at least another 20 mill. And 10 mill more could be what makes it 2012 numbers and not 2007 . We could discuss then how much more it cost to meet todays standards instead of what is required in 2007. But 10  mill is not high 

I think this estimate of 80 mill is actual what his numbers points at they had used as a minimum.

I don't know how much wage you have to pay in the states, to a bunch of talented developers. But it looks like they have found at least 1000 man years of work. If they had to pay 35.000$ a year on avarage in wage  that accounts for 35. mill, just in wage. The 35.000$ is the avarage payment for a worker with an associates degree. Again i have no clue if that works as a good estimate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States . But It cost something to keep talent.

And then there is all the other cost, to run a compagny.

Are we done talking numbers under 50 mill, to develop GW2 ?

Originally posted by wowfan1996

Originally posted by Xzen

None of the boosts work in PvP. PvE only.

25% run speed is still a huge difference when you're kiting a tough mob. Just saying.

Unless the run speed buff only works out of combat...

Originally posted by MorpheusMJW

Hello all,

Usually the business model of a MMO is either F2P with cash shop or subscription model with lower cost purchase. I haven't seen barely any mention on this on the forums, other than when the prices were first announced, so does that mean it is now acceptable to charge £50-120 for an MMO and then tap a cash shop on as well?

 

I could be more forgiving if the cash shop was just more bank slots like in GW1, but paying for character slots, when I have just purchased a £50 game is a bit greedy in my opinion. Add to that genuine advantages (regardless of how large or small and I know they can be very small advantages) people can get from purchasing consumable items, it seems ridiculous to me to even have these items, Arenanet already stand to make around £100million just for box sales alone (a conservative difference between the amount of prepurchases and beta accounts active)

In GW1 you can also buy extra character slots...

And you get the 4 character slots when you buy the game, that should take some time untill you level all the 4 characters (if you create all 4 characters).

Not to mention, subscription games started having cash shops this days, and sub games always had "microtransactions". 

I don't get it why people are so complaining, the best thing would be to make this game free for all without any cash shop and box prices. That'd surely make the game last, eh? -.-'

It's just hilarious how much content we're getting for just the box price and the game has no sub! You should take that into an account when talking gw2 shop (even tho those things you're mentioning as an advantages, they're not really advantages... Because you won't have much use of lvling up faster or getting karma faster since karma can be obtained really easy and by the time you'll actually need it - you'll have more than enough without the boosters).

So GW1 had a cash shop, OK. That means it has been in play for years. has it got game altering items yet? If so, you know where the GW2 cash shop is heading. If not then players can rest assured.