Originally posted by meari

Originally posted by MorpheusMJW

Hello all,

Usually the business model of a MMO is either F2P with cash shop or subscription model with lower cost purchase. I haven't seen barely any mention on this on the forums, other than when the prices were first announced, so does that mean it is now acceptable to charge £50-120 for an MMO and then tap a cash shop on as well?

 

I could be more forgiving if the cash shop was just more bank slots like in GW1, but paying for character slots, when I have just purchased a £50 game is a bit greedy in my opinion. Add to that genuine advantages (regardless of how large or small and I know they can be very small advantages) people can get from purchasing consumable items, it seems ridiculous to me to even have these items, Arenanet already stand to make around £100million just for box sales alone (a conservative difference between the amount of prepurchases and beta accounts active)

 

I can already imagine people posting 'The cash shop is optional and the advantages aren't even that significant'. Regardless of how significant they are, people have the option to run 25% faster than me, even after me paying £50 for a game.

Its like paying £40 for FIFA and then they have a cash shop for all players in squad to run 25% faster, doesn't seem fair for me. I think the initial purchase should make it so everyone is on a level playing field. Don't get me wrong, I'm really looking forward to playing, but this is the only thing that disappoints me.

 

So what do people think, is it now acceptable to charge £50+ for a game and then adding a cash shop?

Let's see... WoW, Tera, Secret World... pay for game? check. Subscription? check. Cashshop? check.

I think you should post this in The Pub as it seems more a genre issue.

 

I don't have issue with GW2 cashshop as it currently is.

Wow have cash shop?? You can buy only in wow some special mount without any speed advantage. What you need to pay is character transfer to another server but you don't need to pay for character  slots ora any potion or gear. Inform you please first, it looks to me like standard--''Hey wow is crap'' but i never tried wow before

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

I think a good B2P+Cash shop model is one where $15 per month gives you a minor advantage indeed, but where its in no way required to play the game efficiently, $15 per month being the usual monthly fee of MMOs.

GW2 seems to fit that bill just fine.

...And the great thing about that model is that you are not forced to spend that $15 yet you can still compete very well against other players in the game.

The fact that someone levels faster than me in PvE doesn't bother me in the least because I'm not all about leveling, and neither is GW2.

The fact that there are so many people playing WvWvW at any given time tends to nullify any boost those players may get from the CS.  In probably 95% of cases, you won't be fighting 1v1 or small group vs small group very much, so the boosts don't affect things very much.

The fact that none of that stuff works in sPvP is undeniable.

All of these things add up to:  GW2 CS is not Pay2Win at all and it's not necessary to buy anything from there to compete against other players.  And since it is a B2P game with an optional CS, Arenanet is far less greedy than ANY P2P game, especially the ones that require box/expansion purchases and even have a cosmetic CS.  And they are far less lazy.  They know they have to make a game good enough that people will want to continue to play and by expansions for.  And they know they have to sell items in the CS that people will actually want to buy that won't alienate their player base.

How much easier would it be to simply charge a box price + subscription and make a bunch of money that way?

Originally posted by palulalula

Wow have cash shop?? You can buy only in wow some special mount without any speed advantage. What you need to pay is character transfer to another server but you don't need to pay for character  slots ora any potion or gear. Inform you please first, it looks to me like standard--''Hey wow is crap'' but i never tried wow before

doesnt matter if cash shop is only cosmetic

its still a cash shop and what i consider "double dipping" if players are already paying a monthly sub

for WOW players that want to buy experience bonuses,

they can buy themselves a RAF second account for a 3 month 300% exp to both accts

regardless of the primary intent of RAF being for friends,

Blizzard says its fine for players to also boost *themselves* w this method -- even if no friend is involved

Originally posted by palulalula

Originally posted by meari

Originally posted by MorpheusMJW

Hello all,

Usually the business model of a MMO is either F2P with cash shop or subscription model with lower cost purchase. I haven't seen barely any mention on this on the forums, other than when the prices were first announced, so does that mean it is now acceptable to charge £50-120 for an MMO and then tap a cash shop on as well?

 

I could be more forgiving if the cash shop was just more bank slots like in GW1, but paying for character slots, when I have just purchased a £50 game is a bit greedy in my opinion. Add to that genuine advantages (regardless of how large or small and I know they can be very small advantages) people can get from purchasing consumable items, it seems ridiculous to me to even have these items, Arenanet already stand to make around £100million just for box sales alone (a conservative difference between the amount of prepurchases and beta accounts active)

 

I can already imagine people posting 'The cash shop is optional and the advantages aren't even that significant'. Regardless of how significant they are, people have the option to run 25% faster than me, even after me paying £50 for a game.

Its like paying £40 for FIFA and then they have a cash shop for all players in squad to run 25% faster, doesn't seem fair for me. I think the initial purchase should make it so everyone is on a level playing field. Don't get me wrong, I'm really looking forward to playing, but this is the only thing that disappoints me.

 

So what do people think, is it now acceptable to charge £50+ for a game and then adding a cash shop?

Let's see... WoW, Tera, Secret World... pay for game? check. Subscription? check. Cashshop? check.

I think you should post this in The Pub as it seems more a genre issue.

 

I don't have issue with GW2 cashshop as it currently is.

Wow have cash shop?? You can buy only in wow some special mount without any speed advantage. What you need to pay is character transfer to another server but you don't need to pay for character  slots ora any potion or gear. Inform you please first, it looks to me like standard--''Hey wow is crap'' but i never tried wow before

Um... nobody said WoW is crap. People are pointing out that WoW is a P2P game that has a cash shop as well. Also the mounts do provide an advantage comparable to any advantage GW2 CS provides. Mounts you buy in WoW are instantly unlocked for every character in the game, so you never have to worry about spending gold on mounts. You only need to worry about purchasing the training. 

My question for those complaining about character slots, how many characters do you really have? How many characters do you actually focus on. Other than a few select people, most people only focus on a couple characters. I'm not talking about creating 5 alts and having them all sit at level 12. I'm talking about legitimately creating alts that you will spend time on and level. 

I think it is great that GW2 has cash shops now what they expect you to buy from this cash shop I don't entirely agree with. 5 character slots to boot bullcrap oh you want more bag space pony up bitch bullcrap. Don't leach your customer base anet for christ sakes. If this is how you roll I would rather just pay a sub fee. Lets just nickle and dime our fanbase so they end up paying more than they would if they had a sub lol we win and our customers are none the wiser for its only $5 here $10 there (suckers).

For the record I enjoy playing GW2 and will most likely play the hell out of it but that doesn't change how I feel about adding additional charges to core game items.

Question: if I unlock additional bag space on one character is it just for that character or is it account wide? I'm guessing that its for that character, I don't recall how many bag unlocks there were but I'm thinking at least 6. Even if you didn't go with extra character slots your 5 slots worth of characters your looking at 30 or so expandable bag slots. I don't recall what the pricing was on those but its my guess its not going to be inexpensive.

Originally posted by trenshod

I think it is great that GW2 has cash shops now what they expect you to buy from this cash shop I don't entirely agree with. 5 character slots to boot bullcrap oh you want more bag space pony up bitch bullcrap. Don't leach your customer base anet for christ sakes. If this is how you roll I would rather just pay a sub fee. Lets just nickle and dime our fanbase so they end up paying more than they would if they had a sub lol we win and our customers are none the wiser for its only $5 here $10 there (suckers).

For the record I enjoy playing GW2 and will most likely play the hell out of it but that doesn't change how I feel about adding additional charges to core game items.

Question: if I unlock additional bag space on one character is it just for that character or is it account wide? I'm guessing that its for that character, I don't recall how many bag unlocks there were but I'm thinking at least 6. Even if you didn't go with extra character slots and expanded your bags for your 5 slots worth of characters your looking at 30 or so expandable bag slots. I don't recall what the pricing was on those but its my guess its not going to be inexpensive.

1) Are you really going to focus on 5 characters all at once? Down the road it may be a problem (assuming they don't add character slots in expansions like GW1), but initially it won't be a problem. And over the course of the year or so it takes you to get to the point where you need more character slots, you could be spending gold on gems to save up for more character slots.

2)  Bag space. Currently I believe there are a total of 5 bag slots. Your initial bag is 20 slots. At level 80, you should be able to get 22(I think that's the number) space bag slots available. Not to mention you have 30 bank slots, plus a whole separate tab for materials and collectables in your bank, which you can send your mats to from anywhere in the world. You can also post directly to the TP from anywhere in the world as well. You have plenty of space. People are freaking out because they see the option to purchase bag space in the CS, and they don't have much room currently. Of course you don't have much room currently, you're level 5. I have yet to see a game that allows you to purchase 20 slot bags right at level 5. 

What gets me is the fact that all of the cash shop items simply serve to shorten the amount of time you spend in game. However, one of the chief selling points of any video game is gameplay hours, the more you hours of content the larger the bragging rights. 

Is it not a contradiction to simultaneously want to shorten AND lengthen the amount of time it takes to complete all the available content?

And before all the "it gets you to end-game faster thus it's P2W" nonsense, the game we are talking about here has no bimodal "endgame".

Currently there are three groups in this Cash Shop debate.

1) Cash shop is always bad

2) Cash shop is only bad in B2P

3) Cash shop don't matter in GW2

Regardless of your stance, if you are in 1, nothing will change, you have made up your mind. We understand your position, but don't try to preach to those in group 3.

Those in 2, examples are given many times to disapprove that Cash Shops are bad in B2P, we have proven that not only is Cash Shop bad in B2P, its also bad in Subscribed games, and F2P. Therefore please make up your mind and go to Group 1. Its pretty much the same argument.

Therefore, back to my first statement, since there really is only 2 groups, don't Preach to group 3, we have experienced it, and we find that Cash Shop don't matter in GW2.

Since we can't convince Group 1, and Group 1 can't convince Group 3. And all the informations regarding the Cash Shop has already been told. Its no Secret what is in GW2 Cash Shops. There is really nothing to wait and see, its all available for everyone to see right now atm.

To those that said wait till you have played till later levels, well it doesn't really matter, since its an non subscription game, you buy the game you own it. So just decide if its worth it, because if Cash Shop really bothers you, out weighting the fun of GW2, then you really should think twice before you buy. But stil, your money, your decision.

Originally posted by MorpheusMJW

Hello all,

Usually the business model of a MMO is either F2P with cash shop or subscription model with lower cost purchase. I haven't seen barely any mention on this on the forums, other than when the prices were first announced, so does that mean it is now acceptable to charge £50-120 for an MMO and then tap a cash shop on as well?

 

I could be more forgiving if the cash shop was just more bank slots like in GW1, but paying for character slots, when I have just purchased a £50 game is a bit greedy in my opinion. Add to that genuine advantages (regardless of how large or small and I know they can be very small advantages) people can get from purchasing consumable items, it seems ridiculous to me to even have these items, Arenanet already stand to make around £100million just for box sales alone (a conservative difference between the amount of prepurchases and beta accounts active)

 

I can already imagine people posting 'The cash shop is optional and the advantages aren't even that significant'. Regardless of how significant they are, people have the option to run 25% faster than me, even after me paying £50 for a game.

Its like paying £40 for FIFA and then they have a cash shop for all players in squad to run 25% faster, doesn't seem fair for me. I think the initial purchase should make it so everyone is on a level playing field. Don't get me wrong, I'm really looking forward to playing, but this is the only thing that disappoints me.

 

So what do people think, is it now acceptable to charge £50+ for a game and then adding a cash shop?

+1 for you

I find it odd that you think aditional storage in the shop is acceptable but aditional character slots isn't?

You get 5 character slots included in the box price, there have been / are P2P games that offer less character slots and make you pay to unlock more slots.

Originally posted by Lucioon

 

 And all the informations regarding the Cash Shop has already been told. Its no Secret what is in GW2 Cash Shops. There is really nothing to wait and see, its all available for everyone to see right now atm.

theres a big unknown for how rare Mystic keys will drop in game

some people claim the keys are rare and thats what makes the store P2W

Originally posted by lilHeala

I find it odd that you think aditional storage in the shop is acceptable but aditional character slots isn't?

You get 5 character slots included in the box price, there have been / are P2P games that offer less character slots and make you pay to unlock more slots.

I have to agree here, and I'm actually even slightly puzzled, as unless I've done my math badly wrong, it'd probably be more cost-effective to buy a character slot and use the character as a mule, than buy more storage space.

Originally posted by altairr

Originally posted by MorpheusMJW

Hello all,

Usually the business model of a MMO is either F2P with cash shop or subscription model with lower cost purchase. I haven't seen barely any mention on this on the forums, other than when the prices were first announced, so does that mean it is now acceptable to charge £50-120 for an MMO and then tap a cash shop on as well?

 

I could be more forgiving if the cash shop was just more bank slots like in GW1, but paying for character slots, when I have just purchased a £50 game is a bit greedy in my opinion. Add to that genuine advantages (regardless of how large or small and I know they can be very small advantages) people can get from purchasing consumable items, it seems ridiculous to me to even have these items, Arenanet already stand to make around £100million just for box sales alone (a conservative difference between the amount of prepurchases and beta accounts active)

 

I can already imagine people posting 'The cash shop is optional and the advantages aren't even that significant'. Regardless of how significant they are, people have the option to run 25% faster than me, even after me paying £50 for a game.

Its like paying £40 for FIFA and then they have a cash shop for all players in squad to run 25% faster, doesn't seem fair for me. I think the initial purchase should make it so everyone is on a level playing field. Don't get me wrong, I'm really looking forward to playing, but this is the only thing that disappoints me.

 

So what do people think, is it now acceptable to charge £50+ for a game and then adding a cash shop?

+1 for you

You asked a very simple question, so i will answer it with NO for any other game.

Yes for GW2

So incase of any follow up questions, NO for all other games including TSW , TERA, WOW regardless how insignificant it is.

And YES for GW2, because I have experienced it and find it totally fine where it doesn't affect my enjoyment of the game.

When the Cash Shop isn't Pay2Win, yes, then it is quite acceptable.

Many people even find it acceptable to pay for the box, pay a subscription and pay for extras from the cash shop.

Cash Shop can leave a bad taste in the mouth for many that have tried F2P games, but B2P and P2P cash shops are quite different because you already paid for the game the publisher isn't pushed to milk the player base at regular intervals.

Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by Lucioon

 

 And all the informations regarding the Cash Shop has already been told. Its no Secret what is in GW2 Cash Shops. There is really nothing to wait and see, its all available for everyone to see right now atm.

theres a big unknown for how rare Mystic keys will drop in game

some people claim the keys are rare and thats what makes the store P2W

 

Regardless of how rare an certain item is, WE KNOW that Mystic Keys are in the Cash shop, we know it exists, we know it also drops. Doesn't matter if its 1 out of 10 or 1 out of 5.

Its not an item that was kept from the players and the press as an secret of the Cash Shop.

Your complaint is no longer about the Cash Shop, its about the RNG.

Originally posted by Nefera

Originally posted by lilHeala

I find it odd that you think aditional storage in the shop is acceptable but aditional character slots isn't?

You get 5 character slots included in the box price, there have been / are P2P games that offer less character slots and make you pay to unlock more slots.

I have to agree here, and I'm actually even slightly puzzled, as unless I've done my math badly wrong, it'd probably be more cost-effective to buy a character slot and use the character as a mule, than buy more storage space.

This page has an excellent breakdown on cost per type of storage upgrade (including character slot for which you craft all 20 slot bags):

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/46211-guildwars-2-inventory-and-you-maximizing-space-on-the-cheap/