Originally posted by Mardukk

I hate Turbines model.  It's definitely worse for those that plan on spending nothing.  I can't do a quest...that's worse than wearing green gear by a long shot.

I suppose if you spend in cash shops the Turbine model may be slightly more acceptable but when I have to mob grind in a game with boring ass combat I'm done.

With the Turbine model you could easily earn the points through ingame play and buy that quest, not an option with SOE.

SOE offers no alternatives other than spending cash if you want restrictions lifted. Turbine allows you to remove any restriction using points than can be entirely earned through play.

Sub for one month of LOTRO, you retain all unlocks gained during that period.

Sub for one month of gold in EQ2X or an SOE F2P title, you get to watch them lock all your content (including the classes you had been playing that are not included with Bronze) once your sub is up. You retain nothing.

I can't believe anyone is foolish enough to think SOE is the better deal, it's so obvious it isn't that anyone who thinks otherwise really needs to have there head examined.

Originally posted by VermilioNomy

Seeing the "Vanguard-going-F2P" hype about this game I thought it might be a good idea to try it out... but then oh dear, I have to pay(a small amount but I have to pay nonetheless) for being able to just wear gear? I mean that's just ridiculous in my eyes.

 

If it were a turbine game you would have to pay to access the dungeon that drops said gear.

There is tons of available, wearable gear.  Dont let anyones opinion one way or the other sway you, just play the game for yourself

Originally posted by Istavaan

Originally posted by teakbois

Originally posted by Istavaan

Maybe it is for you but most people raid for better loot in vanguard at level cap. You also can't craft the best items in the f2p version.

level cap is a long way off though.  If you like the game enough to invest a few months to get to the level cap but are too cheap to pay a couple bucks a month to upgrade your gear you really have no right to complain anyway.

 

Vanguard is NOT a race to the level cap to raid game.  If thats the style of game you want, wouldnt you be better off in Rift?

I played vanguard up to a few months ago so don't go telling me where i would be better off.I said nothing about racing to end game i said vaguards end game is progression raiding or crafting. once you play for awhile the exploration novelty wears off.

For some of us, exploration isent a novelty. I love to revisit areas of the game that are a hike to get to. Part of the fun.

Originally posted by Kost

Originally posted by Mardukk

I hate Turbines model.  It's definitely worse for those that plan on spending nothing.  I can't do a quest...that's worse than wearing green gear by a long shot.

I suppose if you spend in cash shops the Turbine model may be slightly more acceptable but when I have to mob grind in a game with boring ass combat I'm done.

With the Turbine model you could easily earn the points through ingame play and buy that quest, not an option with SOE.

SOE offers no alternatives other than spending cash if you want restrictions lifted. Turbine allows you to remove any restriction using points than can be entirely earned through play.

I can't believe anyone is foolish enough to think SOE is the better deal, it's so obvious it isn't that anyone who thinks otherwise really needs to have there head examined.

earning points in turbine games isnt exactly fun though.  yeah, its an option but its also infinitely more efficient to go work a minimum wage job for a couple hours.  probably more fun too.  There is just too many different zone packs and expansion packs for LOTRO.  Through normal play you wont have enough points to unlock Moria, let alone the quest packs along the way to get you there.

Originally posted by VermilioNomy

Seeing the "Vanguard-going-F2P" hype about this game I thought it might be a good idea to try it out... but then oh dear, I have to pay(a small amount but I have to pay nonetheless) for being able to just wear gear?

Are you being obtuse or was that a poor attempt at spin?

Do you have to play (oh dear!) to be able to just wear gear? No, Vermi, you do not.

If you are playing for free (not on a sub and not on Station Pass), and if it is high level gear then you would have to pay a small one-time fee to wear it.

The sense of entitlement is strong in this thread.

I'd come back if the game didn't feel and look like a shit-bird turd. Sorry, but even though I love the design and the non-instanced approach, the game just can't excite me at this stage.

Maybe if they added meaningful PvP - and made it almost entirely free with a cash-shop. But I doubt I'd play even then.

The timing is also very, very bad - with GW2 little more than a week away. Coupled with the F2P model, it's like Sony REALLY wants it to die.

Heres a repost of a post I made in 2010 about EQ2X vs LOTRO's model, educate yourself (all of these examples apply directly to Vanguard as well):

(1) LOTRO gives you access to 7 classes as a free player (Burglar, Captain, Champion, Minstrel, Hunter, Guardian and Lore-Master), there are only 9 classes in the game and the two they do not give free players are expansion content and always have been.

EQ2 has 24 classes, and they give you access to 8 for free. As a free player you get access to one third of the games classes for free, where as LOTRO gives free players access to every single (non-expansion) class for absolutely free.

(2) LOTRO only has 4 races, they give free players access to every race they have in the game for free immediately.

EQ2X has 19 available races, and they give you access to four for free. Forcing you to pay for nearly every race in the game.

(3) In LOTRO you can access ALL non expansion zones regardless of subscription level, it is the quest packs you need to pay for, and unlike EQ2X you can easily earn enough TP through ingame play to purchase the needed packs to unlock the content you desire.

(4) In LOTRO I can purchase a one month subscription, and retain everything I earned while VIP when my account reverts from VIP to Premium.

EQ2X locks any features you don't have access to if you subscribe and then revert back to a Bronze or Silver level. Forcing you to pay in order to regain access to those features, which is especially frustrating if you happen to have created characters while you were Gold or better that are not among the classes available at Bronze or Silver. Locked characters are pretty useless, no?

(5) EQ2X restricts a free players access to chat heavily. LOTRO does not.

(6) EQ2X restricts spell tiers. Which, despite what you claim, is very much a needed upgrade at endgame. No guilds intent on doing endgame content will take players with expert level spells, this is common knowledge, you are expected to have masters by 90 and this is no exception on 2X.

LOTRO does not restrict a free players access to class abilities or spells in any way.

(7) EQ2X restricts you from wearing any gear better than Mastercrafted as a free player. Again, hindering you seriously if you ever plan to use that character at endgame for anything other than questing or running content you outlevel.

LOTRO does not restrict a free players access to gear in any way.

SOEs devs have openly admited that the whole point of the payment model on 2X is to encourage freemium players to pay for subs, which (ironicly, and in typical SOE fashion) gives you access to LESS on EQ2X for the exact same price as a Live EQ2 sub which gives you everything the game has to offer.

I fail to see how EQ2X is the better deal in any way, shape or form. There is more than enough contrary evidence to prove otherwise. The restrictions LOTRO places on a free players are lax at best, and the fact that a free player can earn the TP ingame through free play to buy the needed packs for advancement is also a massive benefit over EQ2X.

What about numbers though?

EQ2X charges you 10 dollars for a guild charter. LOTRO does not charge anything for a kinship charter.

In EQ2X, what if I wanted to purchase the classes and races they don't offer me access to as a free player? Lets check out races first, shall we?

There are five race packs purchaseable in EQ2X (DE/Troll/Sarnak, Dwarf/Fae/HE, Gnome/Halfling/WE, Iksar/Ogre/Ratonga and Kerran/Froglok/Arasai). Each of these packs costs 750 Station Cash, equal to $7.50.

It would cost me $37.50 just to gain access to all of the games races.

Classes?

Well, individual classes (thats right, no "class packs" like races, you pay per single class) are also 750 Station Cash per class. With 16 available classes that are not accessable for free, you're looking at a whopping $120 just to purchase the classes.

So, if a new player wanted access to all classes and races (and wanted to start a guild), it would cost him or her an initial investment of $167.50 to be able to achieve that goal, or be forced into a sub where you will lose your content once it lapses.

What about LOTRO though?

Lets pretend that a free player wanted to buy those quests packs needed for 20-50 instead of earning the TP ingame, it would cost him or her a grand total of 17 dollars (and some change) to gain permanent access to the needed packs for progressing through the 20-50 range. This is the only purchase that would be required, and the users account would immediately be upgraded from Free to Premium just for making a purchase.

Seems like a no brainer to me.

Originally posted by Kost

Originally posted by Mardukk

I hate Turbines model.  It's definitely worse for those that plan on spending nothing.  I can't do a quest...that's worse than wearing green gear by a long shot.

I suppose if you spend in cash shops the Turbine model may be slightly more acceptable but when I have to mob grind in a game with boring ass combat I'm done.

With the Turbine model you could easily earn the points through ingame play and buy that quest, not an option with SOE.

SOE offers no alternatives other than spending cash if you want restrictions lifted. Turbine allows you to remove any restriction using points than can be entirely earned through play.

Sub for one month of LOTRO, you retain all unlocks gained during that period.

Sub for one month of gold in EQ2X or an SOE F2P title, you get to watch them lock all your content (including the classes you had been playing that are not included with Bronze) once your sub is up. You retain nothing.

I can't believe anyone is foolish enough to think SOE is the better deal, it's so obvious it isn't that anyone who thinks otherwise really needs to have there head examined.

In game play??  What am I going to do to earn those points?  Mob grind for a month? 

Edit:  I think SoE should open all blue items to F2P players.  So this is obviously not a great F2P set up either.

Another Edit:  I said to the player that wants to spend nothing SoE is clearly better...it's not close.

Originally posted by Badaboom
It's pretty restrictive. Grouped with a couple of subbed people and went in a dungeon and could not wear any of the drops.   It will be uninstalled shortly  before GW2. 

I was going back with the intent to only group but if this is true I won't be staying long either.

ugh.

http://www.vanguardthegame.com/free.vm

Originally posted by Purutzil
I would try it again, but the f2p restrictions and all are far to insane.  Maybe when they realize restrictions they are doing, much like eq2 are to impractical to keep in place I will give it a shot. Never good when a free trial sounds more appealing then the F2p model.

What about spending a small amount to unlock a few things and then you can play normally?

I don't think they are "insane' at all.

Originally posted by elocke

I played a few days again last week and just felt too restricted.  Sorry, I prefer the Turbine way handling F2P.  Would rather pay for content than every gear piece I come across because I can pay for the content when I get to it and then it's permanently unlocked on my account from then on out.  With the gear issue, it feels like you are getting your hand slapped everytime you get a new item you want to wear, making it unrewarding and not worth the effort of even playing.

Besides, GW2 in 2 weeks and NO other game will enter my mind for months.  

 Looking at the list of games you have played saying no other game will enter your mind for 'months' is highly optimistic.I would change it to minutes.

Originally posted by Kost

Heres a repost of a post I made in 2010 about EQ2X vs LOTRO's model, educate yourself (all of these examples apply directly to Vanguard as well):

(1) LOTRO gives you access to 7 classes as a free player (Burglar, Captain, Champion, Minstrel, Hunter, Guardian and Lore-Master), there are only 9 classes in the game and the two they do not give free players are expansion content and always have been.

EQ2 has 24 classes, and they give you access to 8 for free. As a free player you get access to one third of the games classes for free, where as LOTRO gives free players access to every single (non-expansion) class for absolutely free.

(2) LOTRO only has 4 races, they give free players access to every race they have in the game for free immediately.

EQ2X has 19 available races, and they give you access to four for free. Forcing you to pay for nearly every race in the game.

(3) In LOTRO you can access ALL non expansion zones regardless of subscription level, it is the quest packs you need to pay for, and unlike EQ2X you can easily earn enough TP through ingame play to purchase the needed packs to unlock the content you desire.

(4) In LOTRO I can purchase a one month subscription, and retain everything I earned while VIP when my account reverts from VIP to Premium.

EQ2X locks any features you don't have access to if you subscribe and then revert back to a Bronze or Silver level. Forcing you to pay in order to regain access to those features, which is especially frustrating if you happen to have created characters while you were Gold or better that are not among the classes available at Bronze or Silver. Locked characters are pretty useless, no?

(5) EQ2X restricts a free players access to chat heavily. LOTRO does not.

(6) EQ2X restricts spell tiers. Which, despite what you claim, is very much a needed upgrade at endgame. No guilds intent on doing endgame content will take players with expert level spells, this is common knowledge, you are expected to have masters by 90 and this is no exception on 2X.

LOTRO does not restrict a free players access to class abilities or spells in any way.

(7) EQ2X restricts you from wearing any gear better than Mastercrafted as a free player. Again, hindering you seriously if you ever plan to use that character at endgame for anything other than questing or running content you outlevel.

LOTRO does not restrict a free players access to gear in any way.

SOEs devs have openly admited that the whole point of the payment model on 2X is to encourage freemium players to pay for subs, which (ironicly, and in typical SOE fashion) gives you access to LESS on EQ2X for the exact same price as a Live EQ2 sub which gives you everything the game has to offer.

I fail to see how EQ2X is the better deal in any way, shape or form. There is more than enough contrary evidence to prove otherwise. The restrictions LOTRO places on a free players are lax at best, and the fact that a free player can earn the TP ingame through free play to buy the needed packs for advancement is also a massive benefit over EQ2X.

What about numbers though?

EQ2X charges you 10 dollars for a guild charter. LOTRO does not charge anything for a kinship charter.

In EQ2X, what if I wanted to purchase the classes and races they don't offer me access to as a free player? Lets check out races first, shall we?

There are five race packs purchaseable in EQ2X (DE/Troll/Sarnak, Dwarf/Fae/HE, Gnome/Halfling/WE, Iksar/Ogre/Ratonga and Kerran/Froglok/Arasai). Each of these packs costs 750 Station Cash, equal to $7.50.

It would cost me $37.50 just to gain access to all of the games races.

Classes?

Well, individual classes (thats right, no "class packs" like races, you pay per single class) are also 750 Station Cash per class. With 16 available classes that are not accessable for free, you're looking at a whopping $120 just to purchase the classes.

So, if a new player wanted access to all classes and races (and wanted to start a guild), it would cost him or her an initial investment of $167.50 to be able to achieve that goal, or be forced into a sub where you will lose your content once it lapses.

What about LOTRO though?

Lets pretend that a free player wanted to buy those quests packs needed for 20-50 instead of earning the TP ingame, it would cost him or her a grand total of 17 dollars (and some change) to gain permanent access to the needed packs for progressing through the 20-50 range. This is the only purchase that would be required, and the users account would immediately be upgraded from Free to Premium just for making a purchase.

Seems like a no brainer to me.

Your entire post is wrong, doesn't even apply correctly to EQ2 (since x is gone). Each game that is F2P for SOE has it's own unique matrix. They are all Freemiums, but they are all different, including Vanguard's. None of the above applies to anything SOE offers currently.

People dont look at SOE games as "f2p"... they are known for nickel and diming their players.

The only true F2P game conversion that ive played was AION.

Lotro and EQ2 were both good but I subbed, the f2p options are too limited. Same for AoC.

I tried Everquest 2 when it went F2P and was confused as hell because i hadn't played since launch and their didn't appear to be the two starter cities, then was some new, snowy city.

oh forgot to mention, I went to download, it downloads fast and easy, but...as is SOE,

it's down for maintainance on launch day, /facepalm.

Originally posted by Mardukk

In game play??  What am I going to do to earn those points?  Mob grind for a month? 

 

No, there is plenty to do, and you'll have enough points by 20 just from playing to buy your first quest pack and continue on without a hitch.

I refer you to my above post, numbers don't lie.

Originally posted by Rider071

Your entire post is wrong, doesn't even apply correctly to EQ2 (since x is gone). Each game that is F2P for SOE has it's own unique matrix. They are all Freemiums, but they are all different, including Vanguard's. None of the above applies to anything SOE offers currently.

You're wrong, but keep telling yourself you are not.

Also, did you miss the part where I said it was a repost from 2010? Of course things have changed since, but nowhere as drasticly as you want people to believe. 95% of my above statement is just as viable now as it was at the time it was originally posted.

Post data showing the opposite and prove me wrong?

Originally posted by Badaboom

Originally posted by I_Return
been back for a bit, Games I deleted are about a good many, and pretty much on Vanguard right now. The game is "Massive" in every sense of the word and still one of the best looking game worlds ever crafted.

The draw distance, trees, volumetric clouds and expansive world are indeed impressive. 

What is not is the control responsiveness and animations.  They are about as bad as anything that I have ever seen in a game.  You approach a mob and he starts meleeing you from 10 feet away.   You and the mobs run like your on a moving escalator, etc.  Pretty disappointing.

That is lag, you can't recognise lag when you see it?

This week has been a test week to iron out the bugs ready for the Official F2P launch, this has been stated many times, lag has played a big part in the last weeks lead up and is what causes mobs to attack from 10+ feet, not the control responsiveness and animations like you stated.

You do not see it but the game reads you as being within attacking distance, even though on your screen you have not got to that point yet.

This should be resolved during the patch being implemented now.