Originally posted by Kyus_HoB

Originally posted by beeker255

Originally posted by Kyus_HoB

From my recollection wasn't the fact they work in WvW a bug that was reported and responded too on the official beta forums. So I take it that if they have continued to work the bug hasn't been fixed or we haven't had the build in which they are fixed. 

I beleive it was after BWE1 this was reported. If they do not work in WvW then there is no problem with them as far as I can see. 

There you go (linky link link below!) I think this clears it up that if any of them are working its a mistake also the speed buff is 100% confirmed to dissapear in WvW by the people in this thread.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/uys45/cash_shop_items_that_improve_speed_armor_and/

Goodnight BcBully.

I love beeker far too much, mostly the fact that he talks like fabio capello (ex england manager (soccer) for the americans :-))

I did notice the thread drop down a-head of steam after I posted the link. I think the best thing the community can do is test these buffs in WvW if we get anymore stress tests and report any working buffs as bugs.

This is the link that stopped the buff talk around the 2nd BWE.

Since then the tool tip for the buffs was changed from "does not work in pvp" to what it is now "Does not work in Spvp" There are pictures in this thread to show that it in fact does work in WvWvW. 

Originally posted by bcbully

 

This is the link that stopped the buff talk around the 2nd BWE.

 

Since then the tool tip for the buffs was changed from "does not work in pvp" to what it is now "Does not work in Spvp" There are pictures in this thread to show that it in fact does work in WvWvW. 

Doesn't it actually say competitive PVP and not SPvP, I have definately seen a screen shot saying competitive pvp  but not one that says structured pvp or SPvP for short. 

Now we can allude to the fact competitive = structured but I would probably combine the fact that Arena Net initially reported these working in WvW as a bug which was a Dev post on the beta forums. We can also report that some people have definately in BWE2 noticed that some of these buffs did not apply in WvW they were shown but did not function until they exited the area. I would put the case out there that if in BWE3 and subsequent stress tests that these worked in WvW, it was by mistake and the direction players should take is to report this as a bug until Arena Net inform us that it is working as intended.

When you combine that with the fact it would cost someone $1000 dollars to provide 5 players wtih these buffs for a 64 hour period and rely on a supply of mystic chests to match I'm not too worried.

EDIT: http://i.imgur.com/QoNGP.jpg There we go definately does not 100% say structured just competitive. 

• <div noh="" direction_ltr"="" id="id.331940673567125">

  Currently yes. It doesn't come from just the cash shop though, the item is pretty easy to come by on your own.

   

Originally posted by Kyus_HoB

Originally posted by beeker255

Originally posted by Kyus_HoB

From my recollection wasn't the fact they work in WvW a bug that was reported and responded too on the official beta forums. So I take it that if they have continued to work the bug hasn't been fixed or we haven't had the build in which they are fixed. 

I beleive it was after BWE1 this was reported. If they do not work in WvW then there is no problem with them as far as I can see. 

There you go (linky link link below!) I think this clears it up that if any of them are working its a mistake also the speed buff is 100% confirmed to dissapear in WvW by the people in this thread.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/uys45/cash_shop_items_that_improve_speed_armor_and/

Goodnight BcBully.

I love beeker far too much, mostly the fact that he talks like fabio capello (ex england manager (soccer) for the americans :-))

I did notice the thread drop down a-head of steam after I posted the link. I think the best thing the community can do is test these buffs in WvW if we get anymore stress tests and report any working buffs as bugs.

If I'm not mistaken this picture http://i.imgur.com/VW3yr.jpg was taken 2 months after the reddit thread. Which spawned this conversation http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/48244-worries-about-pay2win-tendencies/

“… it’s never OK for players who spend money to have an unfair advantage over players who spend time."

The boosts from the CS and the mystic chest make leveling up faster. Someone who doesn't spend cash will get those boosts less often, hence level up slower. The first player reaches max level in about 80 hours, the second may need about 90. 

Where exactly is that unfair advantage? That some player can reach level 80 a few hours faster? Does anyone care about that?

"But WvW!!!" you say? Last time I checked arrow carts don't discriminate between people with a 10% damage buff and people without. If you plan on doing 1vs1 duels in WvW, you haven't understood what WvW is about.

Originally posted by Naqaj

“… it’s never OK for players who spend money to have an unfair advantage over players who spend time."

The boosts from the CS and the mystic chest make leveling up faster. Someone who doesn't spend cash will get those boosts less often, hence level up slower. The first player reaches max level in about 80 hours, the second may need about 90. 

Where exactly is that unfair advantage? That some player can reach level 80 a few hours faster? Does anyone care about that?

"But WvW!!!" you say? Last time I checked arrow carts don't discriminate between people with a 10% damage buff and people without. If you plan on doing 1vs1 duels in WvW, you haven't understood what WvW is about.

 

 

A 10% damage buff is like an extra major trait.  Also, I'm willing to bet the player with the 10% incoming damage reduction handles arrow cart fire about 10% better than someone without the damage reduction...

Originally posted by bcbully

 

If I'm not mistaken this picture http://i.imgur.com/VW3yr.jpg was taken 2 months after the reddit thread. Which spawned this conversation http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/48244-worries-about-pay2win-tendencies/

is this the finalized version of the cash shop and its implementation in the game?

are we sure this buff is actually yielding its effect in the current zone evidenced by something other than its tooltip?

can anyone even answer these questions?

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Originally posted by Ramanadjinn

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Originally posted by bcbully

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If I'm not mistaken this picture http://i.imgur.com/VW3yr.jpg was taken 2 months after the reddit thread. Which spawned this conversation http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/48244-worries-about-pay2win-tendencies/

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is this the finalized version of the cash shop and its implementation in the game?

are we sure this buff is actually yielding its effect in the current zone evidenced by something other than its tooltip?

can anyone even answer these questions?

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Is this thread any more worthy of existing than any of the other 100+ threads on the Cash Shop?

Originally posted by Ramanadjinn

Originally posted by bcbully

If I'm not mistaken this picture http://i.imgur.com/VW3yr.jpg was taken 2 months after the reddit thread. Which spawned this conversation http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/48244-worries-about-pay2win-tendencies/

is this the finalized version of the cash shop and its implementation in the game?

are we sure this buff is actually yielding its effect in the current zone evidenced by something other than its tooltip?

can anyone even answer these questions?

none of those boosts are sold on the shop

this all comes down to the availability of Mystic Keys  and no one knows the drop rate of Mystic Keys in game

Originally posted by killion81 

A 10% damage buff is like an extra major trait.  Also, I'm willing to bet the player with the 10% incoming damage reduction handles arrow cart fire about 10% better than someone without the damage reduction...

When 2 volleys are lethal, the fact that you can handle one 10% better does not result in a tangible advantage. 10% less dead is still dead  ;)

Originally posted by cronius77
Matt Witter

 

• <div noh="" direction_ltr"="" id="id.331940673567125">

  Currently yes. It doesn't come from just the cash shop though, the item is pretty easy to come by on your own.

   

so apprently this argument is pointless as you can get them easily in game as well as the cash shop.

Awe you just spoiled everyone's fun. :/

Originally posted by Naqaj

Originally posted by killion81 

A 10% damage buff is like an extra major trait.  Also, I'm willing to bet the player with the 10% incoming damage reduction handles arrow cart fire about 10% better than someone without the damage reduction...

When 2 volleys are lethal, the fact that you can handle one 10% better does not result in a tangible advantage. 10% less dead is still dead  ;)

Depends.  If 2 arrow volleys do 100% of your health as damage, they would 90% of your health as damage with a 10% damage reduction boost.  That would mean a full 3rd volley would be necessary to kill you.  However, being realistic, unless you are a terrible player and seek out arrow cart volleys to stand in, they aren't going to kill you too often.  At least they didn't kill me very often...

Originally posted by Nadia

 

none of those boosts are sold on the shop

this all comes down to the availability of Mystic Keys  and no one knows the drop rate of Mystic Keys in game

thank you for clarifying that for me.

i'm a little less worried about it if the buffs themselves are both not directly purchaseable, not necessarily in the finalized version of the game, and not necessarily useable in WvW.

i finally tracked down the reddit thread that was referenced: 

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/uys45/cash_shop_items_that_improve_speed_armor_and/

it seems people are making claims both ways about WvW useability. i guess me myself personally will just wait to see how it all turns out.  its not like theres a better game to play coming out any year soon anyways!

sorry if i rehashed junk that was already stated over and over in this thread, i'm not going to read every P2W thread that pops up though :(

Originally posted by killion81

Depends.  If 2 arrow volleys do 100% of your health as damage, they would 90% of your health as damage with a 10% damage reduction boost.  That would mean a full 3rd volley would be necessary to kill you.  However, being realistic, unless you are a terrible player and seek out arrow cart volleys to stand in, they aren't going to kill you too often.  At least they didn't kill me very often...

Agreed, they are seldomly lethal if the player pays attention. They hurt just about enough to discourage further advancement though, and I can't see the buff changing that.

Ultimately, WvW is a game of logistics and organization. We've seen a group of 5 fight back an invading zerg of 20. I just can't bring up the energy to be enraged over a buff in an environment that is comletely unbalanced by design. 

Other people seem top have more than enough energy to rage though. Everything balances out in the end :)

Originally posted by Naqaj

Originally posted by killion81

Depends.  If 2 arrow volleys do 100% of your health as damage, they would 90% of your health as damage with a 10% damage reduction boost.  That would mean a full 3rd volley would be necessary to kill you.  However, being realistic, unless you are a terrible player and seek out arrow cart volleys to stand in, they aren't going to kill you too often.  At least they didn't kill me very often...

Agreed, they are seldomly lethal if the player pays attention. They hurt just about enough to discourage further advancement though, and I can't see the buff changing that.

Ultimately, WvW is a game of logistics and organization. We've seen a group of 5 fight back an invading zerg of 20. I just can't bring up the energy to be enraged over a buff in an environment that is comletely unbalanced by design. 

Other people seem top have more than enough energy to rage though. Everything balances out in the end :)

WvW is sort of about logistics and organization.  Putting a target cap on AoEs (including arrow carts) diminishes the logistics and organization in favor of numbers, imo.  If an arrow cart can only hit 5 people and 30 people run through the AoE, 25 of them will take no damage from the cart.  This makes AoEs a lot less effective at area denial.  Smaller numbers will be destroyed by larger numbers if the skill level of the players is even remotely in the same vicinity.  That being said, a player running around with 10% increased damage, 10% reduced incoming damage  and 10% increased speed, all for one hour, will have an advantage over someone who doesn't have those buffs.  The only way to reliably maintain those buffs is to purchase a whole lot of Mystic Keys from the Gem Store and and a whole lot of Mystic Chests from the trading post (generally at 1-2 copper each).  Will this break the game?  Probably not.  However, I can't say it does not provide an advantage that could potentially change the outcome of an individual battle.

Originally posted by Denambren

Kind of sickening to see so many players convincing themselves that paying real money for in-game advantages is OK if it isn't that much of an advantage. The corporations have you people trained well.

 

As the years go by, the gaming population will continue to be educated by corporate marketing strategies on what is acceptable and not acceptable, pushing the limit a little further with each clever marketing milestone that actually catches on with the public. 

 

I feel quite discouraged by all the readers of this post who will slap their foreheads and genuinely think I'm stupid for not understanding that GW2 is NOT PAY TO WIN, and give an emotional response to defend what they've been conditioned to believe. The fact of the matter (and not opinion) is that GW2 allows players to get an in-game advantage by paying money. You can spin it off as a trivial advantage and keep telling yourself over and over how little the advantage is until you feel it's no advantage at all, but the game lets you pay for an advantage. If you can't see that, then you're walking the path that game marketing has cleverly laid out for you. You're the ripe crop of the gamer world for corporate exploitation.

 

I'm not innocent myself,  because I've pre-purchased Guild Wars 2. I want this game to be fun and I want it to succeed. I won't be spending any money on in-game advantage items, but I may spend money on vanity items like character outfits. However, the fact of the matter is that I'm supporting a game that has in-game advantage items when I made my purchase of the GW2 box. And I know it. And every time we support one of these games, then another batch of games will keep trying their own spin on a similar pricing model, pushing what can be bought and can't be bought just a little further.

 

Many of us can see the darkness on the horizon that approaches with F2P models. The future of online gaming is changing rapidly, and the concept of a game universe where everyone is born equal is fading further and further into obscurity with each passing month. GW2 has a shadow cast over it, and while the shadow seems like little more than a passing cloud, it's still a shadow. If you can't see this shadow and feel that everything is a fine sunny day, then congratulations. You're helping pave the road for the future generation of wallet warriors by justifying this kind of pricing model.

See your just plan wrong, You cannot spend RL cash and get this boost.  You have to go find a chest and then buy a key in the cash shop.  So NO it is not pay to win.  You need to learn some common sense and logic and use them.

You would be correct IF you could buy these boost directly from the cash shop, you cannot.

You would be correct IF you could buy the chest fromt he cash shop, you cannot.

So you are incorrect.  Plan and simple, you are wrong, GW2 is not pay to win, it will not be pay to win considering the CEO said so. (lying to your customers is not a good business move and has been prove to cost your company money).

You have to play the game to find the chest, during that time you have as much as a chance to find a key as you do finding a chest. (as far as we know currently).   So how is it pay to win if you first have to play the game to get the chest before you can get the boost that you think are going to make you win?

So lets recap.  TO get these boost a player must loot a chest which is a rare drop in the world or quest rewards.  To open the chest a player has to use a key which is a rare drop or quest reward or buy a key from the cash shop.  Upon openning the chest the player MAY get one of these boost or they may get something else including another key.   That is the reality of how it works.  So how can it be pay to win if you cannot pay to get these boost but you have to play to get the chest which MIGHT get you these boost.

Just because you find a chest and buy a key from the cash store does not mean you will get these boost, you have a CHANCE to get these boost.   Huge difference.

I know facts, logic and common sense are very hard from some people to understand, you clearly are one of them.

I'm not crazy about the items but the restrictions seem to make them pretty irrelevant.

You can't use them in sPVP, you can't use them in WvWvW.

So now we're left with PVE only, in a game where outside of 5 man dungeons, as many participants can show up as they want.   I don't know about you but I wouldn't spend money to just be slightly stronger on a temporary basis in DEs with 30 other people.  Just seems pretty irrelevant.

Of course they're still available outside the cash shop, you'll still get some keys.   As such if you really want the boost for doing a 5 man dungeon you are having trouble with, you can still do so.   I don't see much advantage in having a ton of these consumables though.    

Again not defending it or saying I like it, but it just isn't really any real factor to the game.

Originally posted by Justsomenoob

I'm not crazy about the items but the restrictions seem to make them pretty irrelevant.

 

You can't use them in sPVP, you can't use them in WvWvW.

 

So now we're left with PVE only, in a game where outside of 5 man dungeons, as many participants can show up as they want.   I don't know about you but I wouldn't spend money to just be slightly stronger on a temporary basis in DEs with 30 other people.  Just seems pretty irrelevant.

 

Of course they're still available outside the cash shop, you'll still get some keys.   As such if you really want the boost for doing a 5 man dungeon you are having trouble with, you can still do so.   I don't see much advantage in having a ton of these consumables though.    

 

Again not defending it or saying I like it, but it just isn't really any real factor to the game.

Is WvWvW competitive PvP? If so then what is non competitive PvP?

because these http://i.imgur.com/QoNGP.jpg can be used in non competitive pvp.

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Justsomenoob

I'm not crazy about the items but the restrictions seem to make them pretty irrelevant.

 

You can't use them in sPVP, you can't use them in WvWvW.

 

So now we're left with PVE only, in a game where outside of 5 man dungeons, as many participants can show up as they want.   I don't know about you but I wouldn't spend money to just be slightly stronger on a temporary basis in DEs with 30 other people.  Just seems pretty irrelevant.

 

Of course they're still available outside the cash shop, you'll still get some keys.   As such if you really want the boost for doing a 5 man dungeon you are having trouble with, you can still do so.   I don't see much advantage in having a ton of these consumables though.    

 

Again not defending it or saying I like it, but it just isn't really any real factor to the game.

Is WvWvW competitive PvP? If so then what is non competitive PvP?

because these http://i.imgur.com/QoNGP.jpg can be used in non competitive pvp.

 

 

 

Bully, just stop. Seriously. The buffs are meaningless. Each WvW map supports around 500 players. Maybe less, maybe more, I don't think that number has been finalized yet. A bunch of people with these buffs, even if they are usable in WvW aren't going to make a difference.

Moreover, these buffs can be acquired by other means. Keys drop in the game as loot and as rewards for story missions. You can also buy them from the AH. Food and potions provide similar, if not better buffs.

Lastly, if you have such a huge issue with this, consider that the game does not charge a subscription fee. Take that $15 you'll be saving each month and apply it towards a few mystic keys to get these boosts. Everyone wins.

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Justsomenoob

I'm not crazy about the items but the restrictions seem to make them pretty irrelevant.

 

You can't use them in sPVP, you can't use them in WvWvW.

 

So now we're left with PVE only, in a game where outside of 5 man dungeons, as many participants can show up as they want.   I don't know about you but I wouldn't spend money to just be slightly stronger on a temporary basis in DEs with 30 other people.  Just seems pretty irrelevant.

 

Of course they're still available outside the cash shop, you'll still get some keys.   As such if you really want the boost for doing a 5 man dungeon you are having trouble with, you can still do so.   I don't see much advantage in having a ton of these consumables though.    

 

Again not defending it or saying I like it, but it just isn't really any real factor to the game.

Is WvWvW competitive PvP? If so then what is non competitive PvP?

because these http://i.imgur.com/QoNGP.jpg can be used in non competitive pvp.

 

 

 

Bully, just stop. Seriously. The buffs are meaningless. Each WvW map supports around 500 players. Maybe less, maybe more, I don't think that number has been finalized yet. A bunch of people with these buffs, even if they are usable in WvW aren't going to make a difference.

Moreover, these buffs can be acquired by other means. Keys drop in the game as loot and as rewards for story missions. You can also buy them from the AH. Food and potions provide similar, if not better buffs.

Lastly, if you have such a huge issue with this, consider that the game does not charge a subscription fee. Take that $15 you'll be saving each month and apply it towards a few mystic keys to get these boosts. Everyone wins.

This is were you will find people who strongly disagree with you. 

Better or worse we do not know. We do know that these buffs stack with the mystic chest buffs.