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Vanguard: Saga of Heroes

Vanguard: Saga of Heroes 

General Discussion  » Discouraging thread on official forum

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35 posts found
  Fangrim

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/07/12
Posts: 474

8/07/12 11:08:25 AM#21
Don't be too hard on yourself Kilsin,to me it shows you care and thats never a bad thing.Hope one day my noob toons get to fight alongside you ingame :)
  Vynt

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/19/04
Posts: 596

8/07/12 11:24:01 AM#22
Originally posted by Gardavsshade
Originally posted by slowpoke68

I saw a thread saying that due to all the changes and additions the game is now quite buggy.

I can't believe they would do this.  All they needed to do was polish the game up for launch and code in the f2p stuff.

So help me if the game goes free to play with a bunch of new bugs and they didn't bother to fix the old ones, I'm not even going to bother.

F2P VG was what I was most excited about...was looking forward to resubbing and having a healthy population to play with.

The more I hear, the less exicted I am.  Unbelievable.

Firstly it's obvious to at least some of us old timers that SOE bought Vanguard to kill it via a slow death of neglect. It was a direct rival of EQ2 and SOE could tolerate that. SOE had to do something to remove the competition... but what? Only thing that SOE could do that would look "OK" in the minds of MMO Players was to buy it out.... and so that is what they did. Vanguard was never really finished so of course it's full of bugs... why should SOE fix them if they want it to die?

SOE couldn't give a rat's furry behind about VG and never will care UNLESS turning VG into F2P makes them some money and THEN they will care. This is a last ditch effort to make a few more dollars, nothing more.

Secondly... It's Free to Play... nothing free in life is any good... how long will Players refuse to understand and comprehend this simple concept? How long will Players continue to behave like well trained  and mindless consumer drones and robots? Any MMO that is F2P or goes F2P is garbage. B2P is a completely different animal and usually is OK (not great but better than F2P).

You get what you pay for, and in MMOs the best are MMOs where everyone pays. Nothing that has happened in ANY MMO in the last 10 years has changed my mind on that point.

I think Vanguard is one of the best MMOs ever made (my opinion of course), I would play it but I seen the proposed changes and I know VG is going to be a mess come F2P. I don't want to see what a Mess SOE is going to make with it.

Soe did not buy Vanguard to let it die of neglect. It was not a rival at all. The game was about to be shut down. It was already released years too early due to lack of funding. The game was a total disaster. If not for SOE, there would be no Vanguard at all.

They didn't do much to change the game, but I can understand that. Why toss a bunch of money into a disaster of a failed game. They knew they could make some money from it because people still liked it, and the cost would be minimal with a small team. They probably should have gone the freemium model years ago though to try to improve the playerbase.

  cronius77

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/26/12
Posts: 1300

8/07/12 11:50:22 AM#23

Kilsin- trust me man i understand you are passionate and care about vanguard and you are right i didnt get on any higher end toons myself to try it. I did the three racial starting zones on new toons instead to experience the newer stuff. But SOE is going to take vanguard in the direction that it takes EQ2 as thats all SOE knows how to do . So to me its kinda like this , A the game is dead with a few dedicated hardcore fans like yourself and others or B they make it free to play and go in and change things like EQ2 did when it went free to play. The reasons for the stat changes I can bet you money right now they are going to itemize your stats over the course of a few patches just like EQ2 did. While to people whom seek challange , myself included its annoying yes and uncalled for but honestly it makes it easier on new players that have not played old school games.

Trust me man i started gaming with EQ and played DAOC religiously from release until catacombs. Im used to harder forced grouping games. When i first played vangaurd and seen the endurence bar with only 100 endurence or stamina whatever its called I smiled hard core. DAOC was like the only other game to add in the third challange mechanic where you couldnt just spam your skills like all the mmorpgs since wow. Vanguard is a beautiful game and while yes there is going to be dumbing down now, at least there will be tons of people to play with that join in. The best possible thing you vets can do is weed out the good quality ones and help them stay with vanguard and not move on with a wonderful community.

All i heard last night in chat in thestra was how buggy vanguard is. I heard a guy ask where do people buy a horse and instead of someone saying ask a guard , which 75% of players would never think of asking, they instead started linking horses bragging. For a game that is supposed to have the very best small community out there in a mmorpg , that was very discouraging to any potential players. I just wish people would focus more on the fact that vanguard has a chance to be a good mmorpg again with a active larger community and not focus on the negative so much as I think in the end while the changes will kinda mess with the otherall lore and gameplay , i think most will not be that bad .

  niceguy3978

Elite Member

Joined: 6/14/06
Posts: 1992

8/07/12 7:05:01 PM#24
Originally posted by Vynt
Originally posted by Gardavsshade
Originally posted by slowpoke68

I saw a thread saying that due to all the changes and additions the game is now quite buggy.

I can't believe they would do this.  All they needed to do was polish the game up for launch and code in the f2p stuff.

So help me if the game goes free to play with a bunch of new bugs and they didn't bother to fix the old ones, I'm not even going to bother.

F2P VG was what I was most excited about...was looking forward to resubbing and having a healthy population to play with.

The more I hear, the less exicted I am.  Unbelievable.

Firstly it's obvious to at least some of us old timers that SOE bought Vanguard to kill it via a slow death of neglect. It was a direct rival of EQ2 and SOE could tolerate that. SOE had to do something to remove the competition... but what? Only thing that SOE could do that would look "OK" in the minds of MMO Players was to buy it out.... and so that is what they did. Vanguard was never really finished so of course it's full of bugs... why should SOE fix them if they want it to die?

SOE couldn't give a rat's furry behind about VG and never will care UNLESS turning VG into F2P makes them some money and THEN they will care. This is a last ditch effort to make a few more dollars, nothing more.

Secondly... It's Free to Play... nothing free in life is any good... how long will Players refuse to understand and comprehend this simple concept? How long will Players continue to behave like well trained  and mindless consumer drones and robots? Any MMO that is F2P or goes F2P is garbage. B2P is a completely different animal and usually is OK (not great but better than F2P).

You get what you pay for, and in MMOs the best are MMOs where everyone pays. Nothing that has happened in ANY MMO in the last 10 years has changed my mind on that point.

I think Vanguard is one of the best MMOs ever made (my opinion of course), I would play it but I seen the proposed changes and I know VG is going to be a mess come F2P. I don't want to see what a Mess SOE is going to make with it.

Soe did not buy Vanguard to let it die of neglect. It was not a rival at all. The game was about to be shut down. It was already released years too early due to lack of funding. The game was a total disaster. If not for SOE, there would be no Vanguard at all.

They didn't do much to change the game, but I can understand that. Why toss a bunch of money into a disaster of a failed game. They knew they could make some money from it because people still liked it, and the cost would be minimal with a small team. They probably should have gone the freemium model years ago though to try to improve the playerbase.

Yeah, that is the part of the argument that I never understood.  If Sony wanted Vanguard to die, then they never would have bought the damn thing to begin with.  They pumped resources into the game for the first year and a half or so, why would they have done that if they wanted it to die?

  User Deleted
8/07/12 7:08:21 PM#25
Originally posted by Fangrim
Don't be too hard on yourself Kilsin,to me it shows you care and thats never a bad thing.Hope one day my noob toons get to fight alongside you ingame :)

That would be good :)

  User Deleted
8/07/12 7:14:12 PM#26
Originally posted by cronius77

Kilsin- trust me man i understand you are passionate and care about vanguard and you are right i didnt get on any higher end toons myself to try it. I did the three racial starting zones on new toons instead to experience the newer stuff. But SOE is going to take vanguard in the direction that it takes EQ2 as thats all SOE knows how to do . So to me its kinda like this , A the game is dead with a few dedicated hardcore fans like yourself and others or B they make it free to play and go in and change things like EQ2 did when it went free to play. The reasons for the stat changes I can bet you money right now they are going to itemize your stats over the course of a few patches just like EQ2 did. While to people whom seek challange , myself included its annoying yes and uncalled for but honestly it makes it easier on new players that have not played old school games.

Trust me man i started gaming with EQ and played DAOC religiously from release until catacombs. Im used to harder forced grouping games. When i first played vangaurd and seen the endurence bar with only 100 endurence or stamina whatever its called I smiled hard core. DAOC was like the only other game to add in the third challange mechanic where you couldnt just spam your skills like all the mmorpgs since wow. Vanguard is a beautiful game and while yes there is going to be dumbing down now, at least there will be tons of people to play with that join in. The best possible thing you vets can do is weed out the good quality ones and help them stay with vanguard and not move on with a wonderful community.

All i heard last night in chat in thestra was how buggy vanguard is. I heard a guy ask where do people buy a horse and instead of someone saying ask a guard , which 75% of players would never think of asking, they instead started linking horses bragging. For a game that is supposed to have the very best small community out there in a mmorpg , that was very discouraging to any potential players. I just wish people would focus more on the fact that vanguard has a chance to be a good mmorpg again with a active larger community and not focus on the negative so much as I think in the end while the changes will kinda mess with the otherall lore and gameplay , i think most will not be that bad .

Yeah I understand, it's just frustrating man, putting so much effort into VG over the years and supporting it like crazy to have SOE to extend there hand and instead of be thankful for the loyalty and support, use that hand to slap us extremely hard.

I know they need to make money and while I agree the game needs attention, I just think that attention is being spent in the wrong areas of the game, in areas that didn't need work done but anyway, SOE will do as they please and I hope it turns out for the best.

I am not liking what I see being advertised on the Launchpad though...

Full T3 Tank armour and a super rare flying mount being advertised for sale int he cash shop. If SOE sell weapons and armour that is of the best quality from the cash shop, this game will dive bomb very quickly, losing a very large portion of the veteran base that has supported this game over the years.

I really hope this is a mistake or wording issue and not some pay to win change SOE is making.

  cronius77

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/26/12
Posts: 1300

8/07/12 7:18:15 PM#27
i totally agree with you there pay to win is a deal breaker for myself also. It might just be appearence armor but no way to know for another hour when the servers open back up. Pay to Win sucks and if SOE goes with that route which they did for awhile with eq2 but took it away im out quick as im sure a lot of players will be. Thats a sure fire way to kill their own game. The mounts might be rare but that is something you will be stuck with as mounts make SOE a ton of money.
  SuperXero89

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/16/09
Posts: 2609

8/07/12 7:36:38 PM#28
Originally posted by Gardavsshade
Originally posted by slowpoke68

I saw a thread saying that due to all the changes and additions the game is now quite buggy.

I can't believe they would do this.  All they needed to do was polish the game up for launch and code in the f2p stuff.

So help me if the game goes free to play with a bunch of new bugs and they didn't bother to fix the old ones, I'm not even going to bother.

F2P VG was what I was most excited about...was looking forward to resubbing and having a healthy population to play with.

The more I hear, the less exicted I am.  Unbelievable.

Firstly it's obvious to at least some of us old timers that SOE bought Vanguard to kill it via a slow death of neglect. It was a direct rival of EQ2 and SOE could tolerate that. SOE had to do something to remove the competition... but what? Only thing that SOE could do that would look "OK" in the minds of MMO Players was to buy it out.... and so that is what they did. Vanguard was never really finished so of course it's full of bugs... why should SOE fix them if they want it to die?

SOE couldn't give a rat's furry behind about VG and never will care UNLESS turning VG into F2P makes them some money and THEN they will care. This is a last ditch effort to make a few more dollars, nothing more.

Secondly... It's Free to Play... nothing free in life is any good... how long will Players refuse to understand and comprehend this simple concept? How long will Players continue to behave like well trained  and mindless consumer drones and robots? Any MMO that is F2P or goes F2P is garbage. B2P is a completely different animal and usually is OK (not great but better than F2P).

You get what you pay for, and in MMOs the best are MMOs where everyone pays. Nothing that has happened in ANY MMO in the last 10 years has changed my mind on that point.

I think Vanguard is one of the best MMOs ever made (my opinion of course), I would play it but I seen the proposed changes and I know VG is going to be a mess come F2P. I don't want to see what a Mess SOE is going to make with it.

Vanguard would've died in alpha testing if SOE hadn't stepped in to save it after Microsoft dropped them.  McQuaid wasn't forced to sell out to SOE.  He could've sold the game to any number of publishers had they expressed interest.  The fact that no one else expressed interest leads me to believe there was something inherently wrong with Vanguard's development.

The idea that SOE purchased Vanguard simply to keep it out of direct competition with EQ2 is 100% conjecture with absolute no factual basis whatsoever.  SOE made an effort to salvage Sigil's mess shortly after release, but the subs kept dropping.  It made no financial sense to continue pooring dollars into a project with no return when their flagship title EverQuest 2 was still doing fairly well.

Sometimes I wish SOE never would've published Vanguard.  At least then the game may have died a proper death, and we wouldn't be listening to this drivel 5 years after release.

Secondly, what is this nonsense about B2P?  How many currently released MMORPGs feature a B2P model?  Guild Wars?  Guild Wars 2 will be released in a couple weeks, but beyond GW and the upcoming GW2, we have no idea how the B2P model will turn out or how it will be alltogether different from the supposedly "garbage" F2P model.

  beat_down

Novice Member

Joined: 5/28/10
Posts: 39

8/07/12 7:44:57 PM#29

They already posted the armor on the launcher is for appearance tab only.

 

They shouldn't have worded it how they did.

  bhug

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/17/03
Posts: 1032

truth is honour

8/14/12 2:42:49 AM#30

120814
Vanguard's isle start area had/has huge lag, even two days ago while few were on server.

During initial crafting / diplomacy lag is so bad one suspects the client has locked up or maybe one is somehow not following tutorial / limited info in the starter quest; or else the client crashes and you are back at char select.

Even on 5ms (800KB/s) dsl, the backbone to soe's server is close to 180ms (worse than dial-up). But seems ALL the soe games have terrible connection to the internet (cheap inferior connection)... pay a small fortune for broadband and the last 2 or 3 hops it jumps from 20 to 40ms to near 200ms; i doubt the servers are in europe, as crossing the Atlantic adds 100ms. (Pacific adds 250ms)

2012ce and no reason they should still have such junk connections to the internet, this is not the 1990s (and a million subscribers needing dynamic 2 way communication) anymore; unless they just refuse to put any more real $ into their games.

Also every few minutes there is a BLINDING flash/white-out of the display, absolutely destroys any immersion into the game.
After patching the client folder was 19.2 GB. And the game largely runs out of system memory (windows task manager/processes) with very little up/down internet communication (windows task manager/networking).

  thekid1

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/10/05
Posts: 772

8/14/12 2:48:54 AM#31
Originally posted by slowpoke68

I saw a thread saying that due to all the changes and additions the game is now quite buggy.

I can't believe they would do this.  All they needed to do was polish the game up for launch and code in the f2p stuff.

So help me if the game goes free to play with a bunch of new bugs and they didn't bother to fix the old ones, I'm not even going to bother.

F2P VG was what I was most excited about...was looking forward to resubbing and having a healthy population to play with.

The more I hear, the less exicted I am.  Unbelievable.

Ehm it's run by SOE, did you really expect anything else?

  slowpoke68

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/19/08
Posts: 344

 
OP  8/16/12 12:21:22 AM#32

When I heard about f2p I said it was thing I was most excited about, gaming wise, this year.  It appears they did exactly the opposite of what they should have.

Instead of just coding in the f2p stuff and polishing, they made a ton of changes and apparently introduced more bugs.  Inconceivably, there is still no rain in Win7 or vista...you have to play on a 3 generation old OS to see the rain that you can hear.  It is a shame because the rain really looks good.  Way to make a first impression.

Also I read somewhere that there would be an advertising push to go along with f2p launch...aside from this message board I have not seen a word about it.

I logged in f2p, gave it a look and sadly will not be playing.  Uninstalled for good this time.  Back to LOTRO for ROR for me.  What a pity.   

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17132

8/16/12 12:31:10 AM#33

The game is not any more buggy than when it became f2p. Certainly in a better place than at launch but it's always been creaky.

Game is fine otherwise and I'm keeping my sub.

  emota

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/16/07
Posts: 332

8/16/12 1:16:55 AM#34
Some of the criticism in this thread is unwarranted, Vanguard at launch was a mess, ftp version is a joy to play. It is much improved.
  emota

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/16/07
Posts: 332

8/16/12 1:16:55 AM#35
Some of the criticism in this thread is unwarranted, Vanguard at launch was a mess, ftp version is a joy to play. It is much improved.
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