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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » GW2 looks to harshly crack down on gold sellers.

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79 posts found
  Naevius

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/26/12
Posts: 315

8/13/12 2:42:48 PM#61
Originally posted by RocSek
Originally posted by Fusion
Originally posted by timtrack
Originally posted by Fusion
So, in order to combat gold sellers, everyone suffers... nice going.

How exactly are you going to suffer by this?

Example: i make alot of cash on the TP and want to send cash for my GF for say... cultural armor, im limited by the amount obtainable only via events/quests etc.

Just one example how it affects players

So walk your character over to hers and hand her the cash or items you want her to have.... You don't need the mail system or guild bank to do that.

No face-to-face trading in GW, as far as I know. I suppose you can drop items on the ground, not sure about gold though.

  gaeanprayer

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/08
Posts: 2360

8/13/12 2:46:04 PM#62
Originally posted by Naevius
Originally posted by RocSek
Originally posted by Fusion
Originally posted by timtrack
Originally posted by Fusion
So, in order to combat gold sellers, everyone suffers... nice going.

How exactly are you going to suffer by this?

Example: i make alot of cash on the TP and want to send cash for my GF for say... cultural armor, im limited by the amount obtainable only via events/quests etc.

Just one example how it affects players

So walk your character over to hers and hand her the cash or items you want her to have.... You don't need the mail system or guild bank to do that.

No face-to-face trading in GW, as far as I know. I suppose you can drop items on the ground, not sure about gold though.

There is no person-to-person trading in GW2, everything is done by mail. You also cannot drop things on the ground, pulling something out of your inventory only gives you the option to destroy it.

"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  tabindex

Novice Member

Joined: 4/28/12
Posts: 75

8/13/12 2:51:22 PM#63

1.  30 days is a big deal when the themepark ends in less than that

2.  No face to face trading or item dropping.  LOLOLOL

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 6960

8/13/12 3:02:31 PM#64
Originally posted by Creslin321
Sooo since selling gold is "legal" anyway, what is the point of trying to stop third party gold sellers?  Way I see it, the damage of RMT is already done to the game...the only party who benefits from stopping third party gold sellers is ANet, because they can undercut the gem/gold rate and take ANet's profits.

much respect.

  Tawn47

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/27/07
Posts: 515

8/13/12 3:06:36 PM#65
Originally posted by Zylaxx

Each account, for the first 30 days after its creation, will have its ability to send coins through the mail and guild bank deposits restricted to the account’s net “profit." Profit, in this case, means anything gained from rewards.

Personally I think this measure is genius.  Yea, its a slight annoyance in the first month for some..  but down the line this will impact on the gold sellers much more. 

  gestalt11

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/17/06
Posts: 6159

8/13/12 3:08:36 PM#66

Smart to keep track of overall "profit".  This is extremely important.

 

For those of you who have not followed some of the Gold Seller practices they basically use money laundering techniques so that the GM's are basically in a losing battle of whack-a-mole.  The farming toons themselves can be banned all day long, its the money laundering you need to find or prevent.

  gaeanprayer

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/08
Posts: 2360

8/13/12 3:11:22 PM#67
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Creslin321
Sooo since selling gold is "legal" anyway, what is the point of trying to stop third party gold sellers?  Way I see it, the damage of RMT is already done to the game...the only party who benefits from stopping third party gold sellers is ANet, because they can undercut the gem/gold rate and take ANet's profits.

much respect.

Not quite. Whether a gem sells for 1 gold or 10000gold is irrelevant to Anet, it's still going to take a certain amount of gems to buy an item mall item, gems which someone else has to buy first. They don't materialize from nothing. You have it reversed, the only people that benefit from the stopping of third party sellers is the gamers. 

And the difference between players trading among each other and botting gold farmers doing so should be obvious to anyone who's ever touched an online game.

"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  herennow

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/20/05
Posts: 69

8/13/12 3:16:15 PM#68
Originally posted by The_Korrigan
Originally posted by Anthur

There is only one way to fight gold sellers/buyers: Perma ban for every gold seller and buyer first time they get caught. No nice mails, No 3day whatever ban. The risk must be high and it must hurt.

Specially for the buyers. Ban the buyers, advertise it. There's no excuse for buying gold from some annoying spammer in GW2, since you can do it totally legally via the official shop. You buy gold from some annoying spamming asshat? Perma ban for your account, go to the shop and buy another one, and learn your lesson that time.

 

I don't get this. I hate the gold spam as much as the next person but in a game with a legitimate money farm there will be poor people trying to cut corners. The punishment should fit the crime. Somebody buys from a farmer means a victimless crime unless you are trying to protect Guild war's profit margin or are one of the people hacked off with gold spam. If the former then employ more moderaters. If the latter then I am with you but can we keep it real?

 

If, like me, you are one of the latter group then I agree with sanctions but a perma-ban does not teach people to learn. To borrow a boring analogy the death sentence in the UK was never linked to a reduction in crime but proportionate sentencing has been. So a first time offender/eejit gets a month's ban.

 

They come back to the game older and wiser and rejoin the community.  If they'd just been kicked NCSoft would have lost a customer and they'd have learnt they do not like NCSoft. While the Guildwars 2 model apears to mean the developers need cash from the store to develop future content (if i have understood it correctly) it also neds to foster a community. I fail to see how perma-bans can foster anything but anger if used as an initial response to buying currency.

 

Sanctions are a good idea to rid us of the spam we hate and solely targeting suppliers is ineffective as they have effectively circumnavigated the restrictions blizzard allegedly employ so they'll probably do the same with this game. However  it would appear moderated servers with sanctions that punish transgressors without forcing them out of the game forever appears a sensible and strategic approach. Plus perma-bans for all sellers' accounts obviously.

  User Deleted
8/13/12 3:24:09 PM#69
Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Source?

Good stuff btw, even though I'm sure there won't be many gold sellers in this game, if any.

and why you think that? aion failed just because of the reason that there were alot of gold sellers and bots .

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

8/13/12 3:26:33 PM#70
Originally posted by gaeanprayer
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Creslin321
Sooo since selling gold is "legal" anyway, what is the point of trying to stop third party gold sellers?  Way I see it, the damage of RMT is already done to the game...the only party who benefits from stopping third party gold sellers is ANet, because they can undercut the gem/gold rate and take ANet's profits.

much respect.

Not quite. Whether a gem sells for 1 gold or 10000gold is irrelevant to Anet, it's still going to take a certain amount of gems to buy an item mall item, gems which someone else has to buy first. They don't materialize from nothing. You have it reversed, the only people that benefit from the stopping of third party sellers is the gamers. 

And the difference between players trading among each other and botting gold farmers doing so should be obvious to anyone who's ever touched an online game.

 ?...How do you figure?

You know those "gems that someone else has to buy first?"  Who do you think they buy them from.  Oh that's right...ANet.  And let's say I'm a player who wants to buy gold...if I buy it from a gold seller, then my gold never gets spent on gems...which means the exchange for gold in terms of gems gets pushed up.  In other words, gems become worth more gold because there are people trying to buy gems with gold, but people trying to get gold, are just buying them from a third party instead.

This means that if I want say, 5000 gold, I will have to buy less gems to make that happen...thus cutting into ANet's profits.

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  User Deleted
8/13/12 3:26:39 PM#71
Originally posted by herennow
Originally posted by The_Korrigan
Originally posted by Anthur

There is only one way to fight gold sellers/buyers: Perma ban for every gold seller and buyer first time they get caught. No nice mails, No 3day whatever ban. The risk must be high and it must hurt.

Specially for the buyers. Ban the buyers, advertise it. There's no excuse for buying gold from some annoying spammer in GW2, since you can do it totally legally via the official shop. You buy gold from some annoying spamming asshat? Perma ban for your account, go to the shop and buy another one, and learn your lesson that time.

 

I don't get this. I hate the gold spam as much as the next person but in a game with a legitimate money farm there will be poor people trying to cut corners. The punishment should fit the crime. Somebody buys from a farmer means a victimless crime unless you are trying to protect Guild war's profit margin or are one of the people hacked off with gold spam. If the former then employ more moderaters. If the latter then I am with you but can we keep it real?

 

If, like me, you are one of the latter group then I agree with sanctions but a perma-ban does not teach people to learn. To borrow a boring analogy the death sentence in the UK was never linked to a reduction in crime but proportionate sentencing has been. So a first time offender/eejit gets a month's ban.

 

They come back to the game older and wiser and rejoin the community.  If they'd just been kicked NCSoft would have lost a customer and they'd have learnt they do not like NCSoft. While the Guildwars 2 model apears to mean the developers need cash from the store to develop future content (if i have understood it correctly) it also neds to foster a community. I fail to see how perma-bans can foster anything but anger if used as an initial response to buying currency.

 

Sanctions are a good idea to rid us of the spam we hate and solely targeting suppliers is ineffective as they have effectively circumnavigated the restrictions blizzard allegedly employ so they'll probably do the same with this game. However  it would appear moderated servers with sanctions that punish transgressors without forcing them out of the game forever appears a sensible and strategic approach. Plus perma-bans for all sellers' accounts obviously.

in wow you can just make a lame excuse that it was the hacker and not you who traded gold . my brother did it three times and each time he gave blizzard the same answer and everytime his perma ban was lifted .

  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11235

8/13/12 3:26:53 PM#72
Originally posted by tabindex
2.  No face to face trading or item dropping.  LOLOLOL

ANETs reasoning

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/44139-why-is-there-not-a-trading-function/page__st__30

Hey guys,

The no face-to-face trade is a real decision and it’s primarily a question of trust (as many of you have noted). But it’s also a decision to protect players from scamming and protect the economy from black-markets. Let’s run through some quick examples.

1) Give something to my friend. – As several of you noted, target your friend, right click the item and select ‘mail-to…’. Done, this works in contact list, guild list, or in world anywhere without having to ‘meet’ them or ‘catch’ them.

2) Get a fair price for an item (anti-scam). – Because ALL trading goes through the trading post we can guarantee that highest bidder meets lowest seller and we can give every player the benefit of current market information.

3) Barter item-for-item. This is the grey area and also the most risky kind of trade because even with UI many items look alike in icon and many social engineering scams take place in this kind of system. It’s a risky trade environment which is why when you support it you have to have these multi-stage UI’s where everyone double-checks everything, and then eventually get’s lazy and stops double-checking and gets scammed anyways.

In the end we decided with super easy access to mail for trusted trades and trading post for untrusted trades that such a system wasn’t worth the risk, complication, and fragmenting the player market off of the trading post..

In testing we’ve found that mail is easier 90% of the time we’d want trade and the other 10% trading post is far safer and avoids drama and thing like random trade windows being thrown at you and lots of other unsavory hawking in game.

Hope that all makes sense.

 

  gaeanprayer

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/08
Posts: 2360

8/13/12 3:30:29 PM#73
Originally posted by herennow
Originally posted by The_Korrigan
Originally posted by Anthur

There is only one way to fight gold sellers/buyers: Perma ban for every gold seller and buyer first time they get caught. No nice mails, No 3day whatever ban. The risk must be high and it must hurt.

Specially for the buyers. Ban the buyers, advertise it. There's no excuse for buying gold from some annoying spammer in GW2, since you can do it totally legally via the official shop. You buy gold from some annoying spamming asshat? Perma ban for your account, go to the shop and buy another one, and learn your lesson that time.

 

I don't get this. I hate the gold spam as much as the next person but in a game with a legitimate money farm there will be poor people trying to cut corners. The punishment should fit the crime. Somebody buys from a farmer means a victimless crime unless you are trying to protect Guild war's profit margin or are one of the people hacked off with gold spam. If the former then employ more moderaters. If the latter then I am with you but can we keep it real?

 

If, like me, you are one of the latter group then I agree with sanctions but a perma-ban does not teach people to learn. To borrow a boring analogy the death sentence in the UK was never linked to a reduction in crime but proportionate sentencing has been. So a first time offender/eejit gets a month's ban.

 

They come back to the game older and wiser and rejoin the community.  If they'd just been kicked NCSoft would have lost a customer and they'd have learnt they do not like NCSoft. While the Guildwars 2 model apears to mean the developers need cash from the store to develop future content (if i have understood it correctly) it also neds to foster a community. I fail to see how perma-bans can foster anything but anger if used as an initial response to buying currency.

 

Sanctions are a good idea to rid us of the spam we hate and solely targeting suppliers is ineffective as they have effectively circumnavigated the restrictions blizzard allegedly employ so they'll probably do the same with this game. However  it would appear moderated servers with sanctions that punish transgressors without forcing them out of the game forever appears a sensible and strategic approach. Plus perma-bans for all sellers' accounts obviously.

You are assuming so much. People don't come back "wiser" to the game, it's obvious you shouldn't be buying gold in the first place. It's not about wisdom, and it's the idea that buying gold is a "victimless crime" that makes it easy to become a repeat offender. It's not victimless, and there's plenty of reading and research out there to show you why. Economies are destroyed overnight by gold sellers, and they are only emboldened by the people that buy the gold. I'd do more than ban them if I could, I'd run their IP and notify GMs of any and every game they play that they're yet another one of the locusts.

"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  gaeanprayer

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/08
Posts: 2360

8/13/12 3:36:52 PM#74
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by gaeanprayer
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Creslin321
Sooo since selling gold is "legal" anyway, what is the point of trying to stop third party gold sellers?  Way I see it, the damage of RMT is already done to the game...the only party who benefits from stopping third party gold sellers is ANet, because they can undercut the gem/gold rate and take ANet's profits.

much respect.

Not quite. Whether a gem sells for 1 gold or 10000gold is irrelevant to Anet, it's still going to take a certain amount of gems to buy an item mall item, gems which someone else has to buy first. They don't materialize from nothing. You have it reversed, the only people that benefit from the stopping of third party sellers is the gamers. 

And the difference between players trading among each other and botting gold farmers doing so should be obvious to anyone who's ever touched an online game.

 ?...How do you figure?

You know those "gems that someone else has to buy first?"  Who do you think they buy them from.  Oh that's right...ANet.  And let's say I'm a player who wants to buy gold...if I buy it from a gold seller, then my gold never gets spent on gems...which means the exchange for gold in terms of gems gets pushed up.  In other words, gems become worth more gold because there are people trying to buy gems with gold, but people trying to get gold, are just buying them from a third party instead.

This means that if I want say, 5000 gold, I will have to buy less gems to make that happen...thus cutting into ANet's profits.

Then we're not talking about the same thing. You're talking about purchasing gold with cash. It only sounds like that's the same thing with buying gold with gems, except it's not. It's more like a trade, one resource for another. Gems are needed for item mall things, gold is needed for ingame things. Cash is a real life exchange that's meant to be prohibitive both because yes, it cuts into Anet's profits (which considering they don't have a sub, should be an obvious negative for those that would like to play the game for a long time to come), and it also affects the economy for those that would like to play the legit way, rather than risk trading money with shady third-party vendors. With your own reply, you basically answered your own original question.

"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  Aelious

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2294

World > Quest Progression

8/13/12 3:39:02 PM#75
Girlfriend point gaining could be done by sending her goods to sell herself on the market right?

Yes, I absolutly want ANet to protect it's income. It's their game and I am relying on them to update the game on a regular basis. Going against the ToS is doing something wrong. It's pretty simple.

At least ANet is trying something different rather than "yeah, we'll uh, be monitoring mail and, uh, chat chat channels". Let's see how it works out.
  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

8/13/12 3:51:22 PM#76
Originally posted by gaeanprayer
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by gaeanprayer
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Creslin321
...

.

 ?...How do you figure?

You know those "gems that someone else has to buy first?"  Who do you think they buy them from.  Oh that's right...ANet.  And let's say I'm a player who wants to buy gold...if I buy it from a gold seller, then my gold never gets spent on gems...which means the exchange for gold in terms of gems gets pushed up.  In other words, gems become worth more gold because there are people trying to buy gems with gold, but people trying to get gold, are just buying them from a third party instead.

This means that if I want say, 5000 gold, I will have to buy less gems to make that happen...thus cutting into ANet's profits.

Then we're not talking about the same thing. You're talking about purchasing gold with cash. It only sounds like that's the same thing with buying gold with gems, except it's not. It's more like a trade, one resource for another. Gems are needed for item mall things, gold is needed for ingame things. Cash is a real life exchange that's meant to be prohibitive both because yes, it cuts into Anet's profits (which considering they don't have a sub, should be an obvious negative for those that would like to play the game for a long time to come), and it also affects the economy for those that would like to play the legit way, rather than risk trading money with shady third-party vendors. With your own reply, you basically answered your own original question.

 "Hey man, can I give you $20 for 100 gold?"

WHOA WHOA WHOA buddy!  That is a cash for gold transaction, and I CANNOT condone that.

"Ummm okay, how about I buy a $20 gift certificate from Starbucks for $20, and then give you that gift certificate for 100 gold?"

Okay, sounds good.

WTF?

This really does not seem that different to me...except in the second scenario Starbucks is guaranteed a payday.  I also don't see gems as a "currency" that people just get to be traded...it is really just a exclusivity agreement between you and ANet to spend your money there. 

The way I see it is that the only way you can get gems is either to pay money or buy them with gold.  So, if you buy them with gold...you probably are not going to sell them right back for gold.  And if you want to get gold, then you will probably buy the gems you need for this express purpose. 

Gems are just a means to an end...there is no benefit to just "store" them.  That's why I see trading gems for gold as equivalent to trading cash for gold.  You will literally buy gems for $15 or whatever, and then immediately buy gold with them.

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  TwystedWiz

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/15/05
Posts: 172

8/13/12 3:54:12 PM#77

Sounds great!

 

Fk with legit players to slow down the gold sellers...

 

Brilliant.

  Aericyn

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/11/10
Posts: 391

8/13/12 4:38:28 PM#78
Originally posted by TwystedWiz

Sounds great! 

Fk with legit players to slow down the gold sellers...

 Brilliant.

Not sure how this screws me, I can't send or guild bank deposit more than I have earned. So what is the concern? Nothing else seems to impact regular gameplay that I can tell. Real question - not picking on you or anything.

I am all for disrupting the first 30 days of RMT spammers. I think this will help the economy settle more naturally, than it would otherwise.

By affecting this critical point in launch they are handicapping RMT, while the rest of us settle in and acquire wealth through in-game mechanisms.

 

  Johaboha

Novice Member

Joined: 5/07/12
Posts: 20

8/13/12 4:43:11 PM#79
They have no choice but to be extremely harsh with gold sellers, or they wouldnt make any money after the first 3 months and game would have to shut down.
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