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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » If raiding is so great.....

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47 posts found

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 22588

8/11/12 4:42:32 PM#21
Originally posted by L0C0Man
Originally posted by laokoko

The thing is why can't a game have everything.

Why does it have to be limited by only "xxx".

There can be both. There are already several games that have everything, personally I wouldn't play a game that had only raiding and not leveling to go with it, but I bet there are people that would. There's room for both everything and limited to one thing kind of games

Heck, look at the MOBA games. Real Time Strategy games had been around for a while, even with heroes, and someone decided to do a more limited version with only the heroes, no base building or unit creation... and turned out to be succesful enough that it's now considered its own genre with lots of games on that style.

I think the lesson is that sometimes being focus is good. There are many examples.

MOBA is one.

Diablo is another. Before Diablo, RPGs have stories, and lots of other stuff. Diablo sheds everything else but a) combat, and b) progression (item + level), and becomes a huge success.

More is not always better. Doing some aspect of a game very well, sometimes is preferably than having everything particularly when there is a limited pool of resources to implement.


Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 13403

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

8/11/12 4:45:11 PM#22
Originally posted by XAPGames

Roll a character and go straight into endgame.  Voted yes, but in thinking about it... I'd have to say maybe.

It's interesting to see how many posters here are voting in favor of an instanced lobby game.

There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein


Advanced Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 3921

8/11/12 6:39:14 PM#23
I don't mind lore .. However I can do without a story.. I don't like reliving a pre-set story, I want to make my own as I play the game..   And Raiding.. OMG.. I can so do without the current gear grind hamster wheel raid system..  If a game has it, I won't even bother playing the game.

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/05/08
Posts: 1274

8/11/12 7:34:45 PM#24

We have games close to that now.


large scale modern FPS are just PvP raids that only have PvP raids.  Co-op in games is becoming more popular.


Yes, I think there will be a time where we see co-op games with "raid" type numbers in PVE only gameplay.  I don't know if they will charge a monthly fee or not, but I can see that outcome. 

  User Deleted
8/11/12 7:46:21 PM#25
Originally posted by MMOman101

We have games close to that now.


large scale modern FPS are just PvP raids that only have PvP raids.  Co-op in games is becoming more popular.


Yes, I think there will be a time where we see co-op games with "raid" type numbers in PVE only gameplay.  I don't know if they will charge a monthly fee or not, but I can see that outcome. 

U know I would'nt be surprised if the people wanting raiding to be the only relevant thing in the game don't consider these raids because they aren't at the "end" of the game.


Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 13403

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

8/12/12 8:11:19 AM#26
Originally posted by Enigmatus

U know I would'nt be surprised if the people wanting raiding to be the only relevant thing in the game don't consider these raids because they aren't at the "end" of the game.

THat is a very bizarre but very plausible scenario.

There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein


Novice Member

Joined: 8/01/09
Posts: 415

“Every man takes the limits of his own field of vision for the limits of the world.”

8/12/12 8:17:14 AM#27

I sort of wish you would have included an option where raiding didn't have a tiered loot structure.  Simply because I've always been curious what percentage of people who raid would do it if they didn't have that particular carrot dangled in front of them.

I know I would, and I have friends who would, but I have no real idea what the general viewpoint would be on that.

Come to think of it though, I voted no to this maybe my question needs a seperate poll outside of a "raiding only" environment.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/03/07
Posts: 346

8/12/12 8:21:47 AM#28

i think that most people that play mmo's still want some sort of world, or at least the illusion they are in a world.  a fps style lobby system, where you just clicked 'join next raid' or invited friends to a group, wouldnt be popular imho. as bad as some may think WoW has become in terms of being a 'lobby' at endgame, you could at least run around the world aimlessly if you so chose.



and ill ask this hee, as i dont think it needs its own thread:

RAIDS - do you hate the idea of the raid itself, or hate the geargrind and treadmill aspect?

so many people here the word raid and have this pavlovian hate response.

i personally really enjoy large scale group pve content, but the gear grind is what eventually wears me out.


edit: i aslo think of SWTOR, where many people complained that gear came too easy, you would have near full sets or geaqr after a mere couple of weeks, leaving 'no reason' to continue to do it.


Novice Member

Joined: 4/14/06
Posts: 1522

8/12/12 8:38:40 AM#29

Voted no; the only content I enjoy in MMORPGs is the non-loot character progression/leveling. Playing the game and earning new skills or abilities and new ways to spec a character is the fun part of character progression for me. Once the ability to progress in that way is gone I usually stop playing unless the community is good enough to keep the game fun in a social aspect.


Novice Member

Joined: 10/05/08
Posts: 599

8/12/12 8:50:54 AM#30
I would but then I never raided for the loot.  I just enojyed good raid content and I don't mind doing the same instance a number of times.   (Heck did Elesses(sp?), deadmines,  Mara,  Schoolo, BRS lower, etc.. atleast 30 times each.)

I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.


Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 2166

"See how I reward those who fail me!"

8/12/12 9:17:25 AM#31
Not particularly interested in a game that was only about raiding. To be fair I don't care about story in most MMOs either because I can't stand reading dumb generic quest monologue texts. The only two games MMOs I've cared about story in were LotRO and SWTOR because they actually manage to present story at a meaningful degree.

"Tiny clown, he got wet. I was talking to a psychic and I can't sleep in the ozone. There are too many different peanuts, looking sad.


Novice Member

Joined: 5/18/11
Posts: 2080

8/12/12 9:55:02 AM#32
You are missing just the plain old No option

Forum Bunny

Joined: 10/24/10
Posts: 2693

8/12/12 11:23:53 AM#33
Idk why they dont put low level raids tbh. It makes it so bait and switchy to me. At least fiesta online had the decency to have raids starting level 10. Id like raiding more if its not jst tacked on at the end.

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Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/06
Posts: 4793

Functionless Art is Simply Tolerated Vandalism...We Are The Vandals.

8/12/12 9:50:27 PM#34
There's got to be more to a game than just raiding. Raiding is the MMO definition of insanity. Doing the same thing over and over expecting different drops.

Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!


Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/11
Posts: 1126

What is "real"? How do you define "real"?

OP  8/13/12 6:16:56 AM#35
Originally posted by DJJazzy
You are missing just the plain old No option

LOL I had to spice it up a little!  It's basically Yes, Maybe, No, and WTF is the point of this stupid thread!


On the whole, some pretty good answers and about what I expected in this totally non scientific poll.  I also think it's kind of lame to change up a game at level cap, and story ending to make it a wholly different experience and then keep repeating the new experience over and over again.


I think putting raids into a game at earlier levels is a great idea.  Especially if the main point to anyone raiding is to get gear and progress their character.  If a game has plenty to do within the game itself and doesn't penalize you for being level cap (as in not being able to go into lower level areas without being so overpowered there's no point), then integrating raids into the game itself rather than having it as "endgame" would be a good thing IMO.

You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???

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Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6496

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

8/13/12 6:23:16 AM#36

Part of the e-peenery is getting a character up to entry-level capability, the passing the barriers to entry (tiered up) and the various gear checks.

OP's describing a game with even less content.  Developers are providing that to us, whether or not we ask for it, so :shrug: just wait a bit, it should be along shortly.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10959

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

8/13/12 8:19:22 AM#37

I think raiding is great for people who like it, but I don't think raiding by itself is great. Raiding is the end of a three stage progression system. Leveling to Dungeons to Raids. Without the Leveling and Dungeons to compare the Raids to, they don't have the necessary impact.

There is also the link between the MMORPG world and raids where the raiders have to do things out in the world to prepare for the raids, even if that preparation is just farming gold to pay for repairs and potions. Seeing the 'world' gives the raid context. It makes the raid important, not just challenging.

This is all from the point of view of someone who doesn't raid, so it could be gibberish.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.


Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2898

8/13/12 9:43:21 AM#38
That's an interesting idea.  If a developer spent all of their energy just on class design, PVE balance and a pipeline of strong end game raids, they could definitely be a player in the market.  I personally wouldn't pay to play it, but they could conceivably attract the hardcore raiders and elitists.  Whether that's a big enough crowd to try and capture is another question.

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/11
Posts: 1845

8/13/12 9:45:46 AM#39
Originally posted by FrodoFragins
That's an interesting idea.  If a developer spent all of their energy just on class design, PVE balance and a pipeline of strong end game raids, they could definitely be a player in the market.  I personally wouldn't pay to play it, but they could conceivably attract the hardcore raiders and elitists.  Whether that's a big enough crowd to try and capture is another question.

I doubt it. Part of being an elitist is the fun or flaunting it infront of 'lesser' players. If everybody is doing it then nobody is special. Feeling 'better' and 'special' is what drives those types

For that you need a big enough gap between the haves and the haves not. Like an arbitrary levelling/progression system


Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/11/05
Posts: 2941

8/13/12 9:51:30 AM#40

I despise raiding. I don't like the idea or execution of it.

When I hit level cap, my character's journey is done.

So, a game with only raiding?  No thanks.

My SWTOR referral link.

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