Not having raids is not a good thing...

Not forcing people to raid, that is a good thing.

But any game with challenging raids that do not need to be repeated endlessly to get the gear you want has a great asset.  Raids are fun, challenging and great teamwork, as long as they do not turn intoo requirements in the geargrind process.

In my opinion every dungeon should have a  1 person, 3person, full group, dual group and raid versions of 20, 25 or even 40 or 50 people.  But for every version there should be totally different content inside, including dynamics.  

Stop spouting missinformations about raids, GW2 have a bunch of raids, you can experience them even at low levels and without the organisation it need in some other games like WOw, they are other games which feature open to all raids like Uo. I think Anet  in their promotion campaign showed enought of those raids, and players frapsed enough of those raid events after playing for like few days in the stress tests. If you need any kind of proof i think a quick search on you tube will confirm it.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=gw2+boss

Not having raids is fine - although I don't think there is anything wrong with raiding, or players who want to press the hardest challenges to consider themselves the best.  Lots of raider hate here, not sure why.  A small percentage are "elitist" in my experience.  Most just want progression and have fun.  If they want to stand around looking impressive after the fact, that's fine really.

For me it's simple:  as an RPG, will I progress in the endgame?  This is assuming all endgame content is "fun," be it raiding or world exploration or whatever.  Will I get something for my continued play?  Exploring is nice, but I want to get better.  Either through stats or at least by looking more impressive.  So I'll take gear progression for stats making me more powerful, OR progression in other ways - better looking gear, diffrent pvp rewards, etc.

So no raiding?  I'm ok with it as long as there is some form of progression in the game.  Just wandering around to explore all areas and new events that do not progress your character in any way is not fun to me.  Some for of actual progression is needed imo.  If this has that... I'll be a hapy camper.  =)

Having things get steadily harder is a good thing. however i feel that with the solution to things getting harder is "get more people" is bad. TSW is using the idea that the fights get harder, more mechanics are added and things like that. I find this better than "add a ton of health and make the fights things they've done in dungeons well call it a raid".  this isnt a solution, simply adding health isnt enough. i Remember the first NM run i did when i got to the boss i was cocky cause ive killed him a dozen times, suddenly a new mechanic wiped the party.

i hope GW2 picks up on this idea because it is a good one. they have a dodge system very similar to TSW from what i hear.

Variety and small numbers is always more fun than Static and massive groups.

Originally posted by Rayshe

Having things get steadily harder is a good thing. however i feel that with the solution to things getting harder is "get more people" is bad. TSW is using the idea that the fights get harder, more mechanics are added and things like that. I find this better than "add a ton of health and make the fights things they've done in dungeons well call it a raid".  this isnt a solution, simply adding health isnt enough. i Remember the first NM run i did when i got to the boss i was cocky cause ive killed him a dozen times, suddenly a new mechanic wiped the party.

 

i hope GW2 picks up on this idea because it is a good one. they have a dodge system very similar to TSW from what i hear.

 

Variety and small numbers is always more fun than Static and massive groups.

There is a scaling system that is supposed to deal with the increase of player in GW2. This doesn't mean you can solo the big boss either, some of the big events and raid like event are tagged as "group events" on the map in game, and you will need at least a few people to take them down, the boss will get stronger as more people join the event.

Originally posted by Requiamer

Stop spouting missinformations about raids, GW2 have a bunch of raids, you can experience them even at low levels and without the organisation it need in some other games like WOw, they are other games which feature open to all raids like Uo. I think Anet  in their promotion campaign showed enought of those raids, and players frapsed enough of those raid events after playing for like few days in the stress tests. If you need any kind of proof i think a quick search on you tube will confirm it.

 

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=gw2+boss

Actually i loved the good old unorganised open world raids in EQ and DAoC, and yes we will see them back in this game for sure.

What this game currently does not have is instanced raiding,  as said before adding raid versions of the current instanced dungeons would not be a bad thing tough, as long as they are not a requirement for geargrinding there is no reason not to implement them. The more diversity in the game, the better.

But i am looking forward to endgame bosses and the organisation it should take to defeat them, knowing that randomly attacking these bosses will lead to defeat, people need to get organised when fighting these huge bosses in the open world. Who will stand up and lead the troops.

Originally posted by Beiloch

It's so funny and intesnely hypocritical.

20+ man groups for best loot - BOO go away

5 man for best loot = YAY! More!

What?

Explain to me how needing an even smaller group of people to finish top content is LESS elitist than larger groups.

Seriously think about it. 5 guys = good. Increase all aspects so 20, 40 heck maybe even 60 people can do it at once and all get a challenge and loot. Boooo. This 'kneejerk' hating of raiding is really telling of people's ignorance.

 

You don't ALL get anything.  That's one of my many problems with raids.  You're the ignorant one if you think otherwise.  Fact: In traditional raiding, there's a very good chance given a high amount of people (ie: 20) that you won't get jack shit out of your hard spent time.  There's nothing "kneejerk" about it.  Think before you post.

Originally posted by destroyerdee
Did a DE 2 days ago, there were about 10 of us fighting a giant blob. I swear that was fight was like a raid boss took us 2 attempts alot of dying and 15 mins on the actual kill itself ..was awesome!

And therein lies my problem with games like WoW - the leveling process contains no challenge whatsoever.  They removed the elite status from some of the hardest mobs, almost all of them in fact.  You're in no danger of dying for the weeks it takes some people to level a character - months for some others newer to the game.  The game is effectively pointless until you get to 85 to actually start progressing, and then good luck getting that drop THIS week... maybe next time, fella.  That's not my idea of fun.

Originally posted by Rayshe
You know i never understood they why limited access like that. well i know their reason but it still doesn't make sense

Limit what now?

Originally posted by Rayshe
The amount of runs you can do in a raid per week. having a limit is really dumb.

It's only dumb when you're not charging a subscription to get the most money possible out of people.  People go on about the longevity of WoW, but if you took away those raid locks, people would be done far quicker than presently and there would be a much bigger dip in users long before any expansion was released.

Some people just like feeling that comforting wool over their eyes though.  Raids are good.  Locks are good.  Omm.

Originally posted by Rayshe
The amount of runs you can do in a raid per week. having a limit is really dumb.

People get geared too fast otherwise, which means they burn through content so fast that they are going "There's nothing to do, release more content" in few weeks. It's kinda like a progression brake for the hc raiders.

Anything new and excitiing and different should be welcomed in gaming communities as it is a sign of inovation and progress,   Game Companys need to do this in order to keep the next set game to feel different and not a cardboard copy of the last.  Now if it's a series that's fine, But in some cases the Combat needs and overhaul, See GW1 and GW2. Now then, Please tell me the plus side of 20+ man raids with the style of combat GW2 has.. There is none, You'd be lagging and watching all that would be a pain to keep track of lower HP targets, Yourself, Positions of them adds. Etc. It just doesn't work in this kind  of game, Now smaller groups such as 5 mans might work, I am unaware of that at this time

Sorry for any spelling mistakes, It's 5 AM..

Originally posted by Arid

 

Anything new and excitiing and different should be welcomed in gaming communities as it is a sign of inovation and progress,   Game Companys need to do this in order to keep the next set game to feel different and not a cardboard copy of the last.

I agree 100%.  The problem with the slur "GW2 fanboys" is that some of us are legitmately appreciative that a company is opening up new avenues for future game devs to give their players, it's not just about a game, it's about what GW2 represents. More options are always good in this genre, and in fact video games in general.  Do I know if GW2 will be a huge, long term success?  Of course not, it's not so much about the game to me as it is a CHANGE that was desperately needed in the stagnating waters that are the MMORPG market.  

No raids?  What's the big deal?  Don't like it?  Play a game that has raids.  Get bored of raids, come to a game that doesn't have them.  Everybody wins.

Originally posted by Rayshe
Thats basically why i said what i said. While the combat is different, the dodge mechanic is still in there so being laggy means your a dead man. When a company has a good idea another company using it isnt a bad thing. I dont think TSW will ever do anything bigger than a 10man, if it even does that. GW2 should look at it the same way. find a way that the top players and guilds can do these "raids" for lack of a better term with a higher difficulty. perhaps make Normal Elite and Nightmare Servers (TSW difficulty terms) for those players and allow free transfers. or even higher difficulty instances. that way you have the same freedom however the players that get bored of the fight can go make it harder.

The flaw with your theory (highlighted above) is that those "raiders" who are reacting negatively right now will still complain, UNLESS they also get "the best" gear, statistically, for that harder content, with no other way to get that same gear. It goes against ANet's manifesto to give them that "better gear".   

This argument is not just about what content is in the game, it is about the reward for that content.  In fact, it's more about the reward than the content for those raiders arguing here.  Just go back and read their posts to see how it always comes back to that.

I've raided in all of the previous MMOs I have played and the raiders reacting negatively here actually represent a very small subset of even the raiding community as a whole.  They are the ones that absolutely must have the best possible gear rather than partaking in the raiding for the experience and challenge.   They do not even represent the entire raiding portion of the MMO community, which as has been said before is already a small subset.   

Put in simple terms, there is really no way for GW2 to accomodate them without tossing out their own design manifesto.   And I don't really see why anyone would want there to be a way to accomodate them...there are already plenty of other MMOs they can play to satisfy their needs.

I am still up in the air with this mmo and this is my two cents.

After doing the betas and played almost every other game to end game/raid/pve/housing/crafting/etc I have found out what keeps the player around is not the "game" it is 99% the community. 

Community though comes in many shapes and form. 

High population community - aka WoW, even though you hate 99% of the players you still play it because one your friend plays it, two you like "the pvp ranking/pve progression" /flex e-peen

Low Population - Vanguard,EQ1 - most are tight nit families or friends for over 10 years. They play the game casually or hardcore but as way to keep in touch and relax.

FOTM - was Tera and now this month will be GW2. Look at the dip in population in Tera only after a few months. These type of community consist a large portion of game hoppers which is why probably this forum started. FOTM community are always over hyped and cannot keep their opinions to themselves. 

I love how everyone here says end game raiding caters to the elitist and it is just repetitve crap. Well how is BG or WvW pvp not repetitve? Or going Rifts, etc. 

Raiding will ALWAYS be important in a game due to the fact that people want to be able to accomplish things that other people can't.

Just like in reality. Would you want everyone to have the same equal standing even though you work twice as many hours as the other guy doing the same job? This equality crap to me makes no sense because if that is true why not go give half of what you own to some random homeless near you? 

I agree to whoever said that innovation and progress in gaming world is good because it brings new flavors and choices to the gamers. Not everyone might like the game but there will still be people playing it. Instead of being a fanboy for GW2 or WoW or any other game just keep an open mind and give it a try. 

Personally, I love raiding because that is the only time that all of my friends can play together in a game. I usually play with 10 or more people and other than raids in end game contents for games we can never party as 10 or more. Yeah you can argue in Rift you can go do rifts and shit or World bosses, but to us that doesn't feel as close. In those type of events its usually /afk -autoattack. So for the people that are so hyped for the World Content don't be because those type of evnets are going to end up like Tera's Nexus for those that have personally experienced it will know how crappy that system is.

Oh and allt he fanboys about GW2 redid this redid that... not really GW1 was very similar mechanic just on larger scale... And a lot of the concepts/design/mechanic according to an interview i watched from a developer were (responses, critics for other games) that the changes they have made was to cater those responses but if you think about it. Most of the people that are responding to those things are the same fanboys starting threads on here about WoW is the best, GW2 is the coolest new thing ever. 

Overall, I enjoyed and respect the gameplay of GW2 but I am not yet a true believer. I will probably wait until christmas myself to buy it because i don't believe it will last the trial of time for PvE. As for PvP as long as they constantly spice up arenas, in tier pvp gear etc that will be like a new mini meta game that people will be willing to log on for. 

-ozerinx