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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » So I figured out why so many people hate raiding...

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59 posts found
  thamighty213

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/17/06
Posts: 1647

8/11/12 2:46:46 PM#21
For me its simply time.   Spending an hour prep and 3hr in a 24 man was fun for me 10 years ago,   2 kids and other hobbies later and I wouldnt even have the time to do it let alone actually want to.
  thexrated

Novice Member

Joined: 11/26/04
Posts: 1379

8/11/12 2:52:42 PM#22
Originally posted by Vannor
Well I hate raiding because it's a massive time investment and starts taking over your life. I have a real life to live. I'm sure a large percentage of those that don't like raiding dislike it for the same reason.

It is only a massive time investment, if you are in a sub par guild. In good guilds, you only have a heavy time investment for few weeks when new content is released. Once you have cleared the new content, a typical raiding time is around 1-3 hours per week. It is a fact, that when you are in a good guild, you have to play a lot less unless you also like to PvP and just generally spend time in the game doing something else. 

The mistake many people make, who really enjoy raiding, is to stay loyal to sub par guilds. You should always aim to be within the top five guilds in a typical server. However, this might mean that you have to bail out, and often piss off people. There is a huge difference in the level of commitment you have in the best guilds. It is not so much about skill anymore, but commitment. That is the reason why you do not have to fuck around.

This does not mean that casual raiding can't be fun as well, the above is true only if you are serious about raiding and do not like to waste time.

 

"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."

  dorugu

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/06/03
Posts: 131

8/11/12 2:59:19 PM#23

onlöy raided once or twice i think i kno i avnt got the skill for tht w 7 alts in wow :) so i dun even try since i kno ow elitistic raiders usually r. for example ive only sen the bosses in forge o souls due to the fact i culd stealth there with my rogue :)

so i dun hate raiding i dun like it either its simply somefing i wont / cant do

  Netspook

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/01/07
Posts: 1422

8/11/12 3:07:01 PM#24
Originally posted by pointchiz
Who the hell wants to schedule thier lives around a raid schedule? Most people schedule thier lives based on a list of priorities and raiding in a video game isn't a popular option I can tell yea that much.

 

Exactly.

A couple more of my reasons, could easily list a few more:

- As someone already said, raids tends to bring out the worst in people. I play for fun - I don't think it's fun when the new guy did something wrong, and suddenly the chatbox has more prophanity than an average Joe Pesci movie.

- Raids are really not that special. It's just like dungeons and other stuff, it gets boring when you've done the same things many, many times before. And when the repetitive stuff requires hours of your time, each time, there is no fun left.

OP, you may have figured out why SOME hate raids, but your list is way too short to cover the majority. And btw, I don't hate raids, I just think they're among the most boring things you can do in any MMO.

  eyelolled

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/13/10
Posts: 3083

I am more than some of my parts

8/11/12 3:21:28 PM#25

I enjoyed raiding somewhat but I am really hoping that it gets improved immensely.

 

I enjoyed taking part in a difficult area with multiple dynamics that meant lots of people have to work as a team to finish the goals at hand.

I did not enjoy the fact that for things to be really challenging it also meant that one person who is not doing their job well, could bring the raid to a halt. This leads to elitism and the flooding of group chat with "noob" comments.

 

I enjoyed being part of a large group working together.

I did not enjoy waiting around for the large group to get logged in and organized before the raid started.

 

I enjoyed finding some really cool gear from boss loots.

I did not enjoy feeling obligated to complete the raids numerous times just to have enough gear to progress to the next raids.

 

 

All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19273

8/11/12 3:32:18 PM#26

I did some hard mode raiding back in WOTLK .. what i hate ...

1) too much time commitment. I have a life.

2) too hard (we are talking about hard mode) ... you miss one manuevr and it is a wipe. You did a little less dps, and the boss enrage,, and it is a wipe. You move a little slower out of the area, and it is a wipe. If i want to play finger gymnastics, i would become a professional SC2 player in S Korea.

3) too much loot drama

4) too much fighting for raid spot .. for god sake, it is a game. Do i really need an interview, and a try out to get on the raid team?

  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8067

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

8/11/12 3:37:17 PM#27

I can only tell you why *I* hate raiding.

 

1) You usually stand around 1+ hour waiting for everyone to be ready.

2) You only get into raids that work if you are part of a raid guild with pro gear and play a MMO like work with daily schedules.

3) You are 2+ hours in some damn TS/Vent/Mumble with 40 people, 20 of them squeking teeangers.

4) Instead of an interesting battle it is more a timed reaction game "now do this then do that" which is neither exciting nor challanging just BOOOORING.

5) Usually any good gear goes to the inner circle anyway.

6) You need to repeat the same boring snoozefest 3000 times to get all part of the gear set.

 

 

WHO

WOULD

WANT

THAT??

A forum is a place where people can discuss about different opinions. So what I don't get is, how people react offended when they come to a forum and then find... well different opinions. If a different opinion offends you, what are you even doing here?

  User Deleted
8/11/12 3:39:44 PM#28
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by Psychow

The top 5 reasons I come up with for people not raiding are:

 

1. People are lazy. If there is an easier way to get gear than raiding, they will do it instead. 

 

2. People "used" to raid, but are now burnt out on it. The gear grind and progression isn't the carrot it used to be.

 

3. People have never raided, but heard horror stories about needing to farm all day in order to raid. Even though this isn't the case anymore, people are still uninformed.

 

4. Raids take too long. A 5-man dungeon can be competed in less than a hour, a raid is usually 2+ hours.

 

5. People do not like scheduling their lives outside of game around their raid schedule. 

 

Honerable mention: Everyone now wears epics. There was a time that epics were worn only by the most dedicated players, but now it's pretty easy to be in full epics within days of reaching max level. So I guess this is an e-peen reason. Having good gear used to be a status symbol (for some) and now it no longer is. 

 

 

 

 

I do not agree at all with your 1. statement.  I'm tired of you people labeling other play styles as lazy if they aren't hardcore.  The sheer arrogance of such a statement is mind boggling, especially when it's about gaming, which is the epitome of laziness as we all use it for entertainment / avoiding real work / escapism.

 

I should have said "People typically choose the path of least resistence" instead of using the word "lazy". But it doesn't change what I meant. 

 

And what do you mean by "You People"?

  AzurePrower

Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/07
Posts: 1530

Ahh yes, "Hypers." The people who praise and hate every MMORPG... We've dismissed that claim.

8/11/12 3:40:32 PM#29

Commitment.


One should never schedule their life around a game. Rather schedule their game around their life.

  Eir_S

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4697

GW2 socialist.

8/11/12 3:41:32 PM#30

I hated raiding because it seemed to bring out the worst in people and it took too damn long, but mostly nowadays I refuse to participate in raid games because of the inherent dishonesty that they represent.

"Hey we want you to have fun!"

Translation: "We're locking this raid so you have to wait, waiting = more sub money rolling in"

If they really wanted you to have fun, there wouldn't be locks.  It's a scam that a small percentage still buy into.  Raids could be so much more.

  thexrated

Novice Member

Joined: 11/26/04
Posts: 1379

8/11/12 3:51:47 PM#31
Originally posted by Elikal

I can only tell you why *I* hate raiding.

Read my previous post.

1) You usually stand around 1+ hour waiting for everyone to be ready.

Not in a well-organised guild.

2) You only get into raids that work if you are part of a raid guild with pro gear and play a MMO like work with daily schedules.

Untrue, read my previous post. In a good raiding guild, your time spend raiding significantly decreases over time. It takes commitment, tho. You need to have commitment in any sports, hobby or leisure activity to be successful. 

3) You are 2+ hours in some damn TS/Vent/Mumble with 40 people, 20 of them squeking teeangers.

Or you are in a proper guild that has knows how to manage their communication.

4) Instead of an interesting battle it is more a timed reaction game "now do this then do that" which is neither exciting nor challanging just BOOOORING.

It challenging to get it work for those 20-40 people. That is what the commitment is all about. If you find it boring, the raiding is probably not for you. It takes a lot of patience and good nerves, even in a good guild. Not all personalities are suitable for the top tier raiding mentality. People can find raiding very challenging. However, the problem is that mechanics are repeated so often, so they do tend to get boring, but also less challenging when you are in a good guild.

5) Usually any good gear goes to the inner circle anyway.

Again an example of bad management, get in a good guild and the gear is no longer about prestige, but about progression. You do get a higher percentage of loot whores in poor guilds...however, those types seldom survive long in the better managed and organised guilds.

6) You need to repeat the same boring snoozefest 3000 times to get all part of the gear set.

Untrue, if you are in a crappy guild, you do not only spend more time trying to get anywhere, but you also get less gear because it takes such a long time to clear the raid. More committed guilds clear the new content faster and typically have very little to do until the next expansion or content update. In a good guild, clearing a raid (once it has been beaten few times) takes only a bit longer than running any small-group content.

 

"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."

  Vynt

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/19/04
Posts: 596

8/11/12 3:52:01 PM#32
Originally posted by thexrated
Originally posted by Vannor
Well I hate raiding because it's a massive time investment and starts taking over your life. I have a real life to live. I'm sure a large percentage of those that don't like raiding dislike it for the same reason.

It is only a massive time investment, if you are in a sub par guild. In good guilds, you only have a heavy time investment for few weeks when new content is released. Once you have cleared the new content, a typical raiding time is around 1-3 hours per week. It is a fact, that when you are in a good guild, you have to play a lot less unless you also like to PvP and just generally spend time in the game doing something else. 

The mistake many people make, who really enjoy raiding, is to stay loyal to sub par guilds. You should always aim to be within the top five guilds in a typical server. However, this might mean that you have to bail out, and often piss off people. There is a huge difference in the level of commitment you have in the best guilds. It is not so much about skill anymore, but commitment. That is the reason why you do not have to fuck around.

This does not mean that casual raiding can't be fun as well, the above is true only if you are serious about raiding and do not like to waste time.

 

You're so right about being in a good guild and cutting your time playing drastically. I've been in good guilds, top guilds in various games and ended up playing less than casuals. I played more leveling up, than I did raiding. In WoW, I was probably down to about 10 hours a week playing, and had all the best stuff.

Of course it was longer when learning the new raids, but that just made it more fun. The times I would play like 30 hours a week, most wasn't raiding, it was because I was just having fun, grouping up, hanging out etc.

People watch more tv than what it takes to be in a good raidning guild. Also if people think 10-15 hours a week is too much to be in a top guild because they can only play a few hours a week, then probably shouldn't complain if they don't have all the best stuff.

  Bladestrom

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3134

8/11/12 4:14:57 PM#33
Originally posted by Vynt
Originally posted by thexrated
Originally posted by Vannor
Well I hate raiding because it's a massive time investment and starts taking over your life. I have a real life to live. I'm sure a large percentage of those that don't like raiding dislike it for the same reason.

It is only a massive time investment, if you are in a sub par guild. In good guilds, you only have a heavy time investment for few weeks when new content is released. Once you have cleared the new content, a typical raiding time is around 1-3 hours per week. It is a fact, that when you are in a good guild, you have to play a lot less unless you also like to PvP and just generally spend time in the game doing something else. 

The mistake many people make, who really enjoy raiding, is to stay loyal to sub par guilds. You should always aim to be within the top five guilds in a typical server. However, this might mean that you have to bail out, and often piss off people. There is a huge difference in the level of commitment you have in the best guilds. It is not so much about skill anymore, but commitment. That is the reason why you do not have to fuck around.

This does not mean that casual raiding can't be fun as well, the above is true only if you are serious about raiding and do not like to waste time.

 

You're so right about being in a good guild and cutting your time playing drastically. I've been in good guilds, top guilds in various games and ended up playing less than casuals. I played more leveling up, than I did raiding. In WoW, I was probably down to about 10 hours a week playing, and had all the best stuff.

Of course it was longer when learning the new raids, but that just made it more fun. The times I would play like 30 hours a week, most wasn't raiding, it was because I was just having fun, grouping up, hanging out etc.

People watch more tv than what it takes to be in a good raidning guild. Also if people think 10-15 hours a week is too much to be in a top guild because they can only play a few hours a week, then probably shouldn't complain if they don't have all the best stuff.

its such a dated concept, scheduled raiding for 'good stuff' 

as for :

'The mistake many people make, who really enjoy raiding, is to stay loyal to sub par guilds. You should always aim to be within the top five guilds in a typical server. However, this might mean that you have to bail out, and often piss off people.

It's true if all you care about is gear and not people and also why games like WOW are so antisocial, to be competitive in the game you need the best gear, to get the best gear you need to do the above, and then commit to 4 hours a couple nights a week where you must not move from your pc, must entirely devote you attention and not allow yourself to be distracted by anything at your home, be it a loved one speaking to you, or your kids etc.

I done it for years and it took a long time to realise that it was no longer a game it was repeating compulsive behaviour.

 

 

 

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist)

Now playing Wildstar, AOW 3

  JoeyMMO

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/09/11
Posts: 1319

To busy playing GW2 to post much around here... *shrug*

8/11/12 4:20:03 PM#34
Originally posted by Vannor
Well I hate raiding because it's a massive time investment and starts taking over your life. I have a real life to live. I'm sure a large percentage of those that don't like raiding dislike it for the same reason.

 This is short and good. Building your life around a raid schedule, doing the same thing over and over and over. Who in their right mind finds that fun? Carrot-on-a-stick games enough of those around. Can we have one that doesn't require you to build your life around something that is supposed to be entertaining, please?

  thexrated

Novice Member

Joined: 11/26/04
Posts: 1379

8/11/12 4:28:06 PM#35

"It's true if all you care about is gear and not people and also why games like WOW are so antisocial, to be competitive in the game you need the best gear, to get the best gear you need to do the above, and then commit to 4 hours a couple nights a week where you must not move from your pc, must entirely devote you attention and not allow yourself to be distracted by anything at your home, be it a loved one speaking to you, or your kids etc."

I do not know why you think that players who enjoy raiding are all about gear. I would argue that the gear is usually a bigger issue in crappier guilds. While you might be right that some people solely want to be in the top guild in order to get gear, it is usually the minority. What most enjoy is the challenge and being with like-minded and committed people, who enjoy the beating the raid content as fast as possible (perhaps even competing against other guilds trying to do the same). However, like I said before, there is nothing wrong with casual raiding, just like there is nothing wrong with more committed raiding, but you need to manage your expectations accordingly. You often have lot more problems in a casual guild than in a dedicated raiding guild. In crappier guilds, players are coming and going with a high turnover, and its hard to meet their expectations. In a solid raiding guild, people are more like-minded, commitment is no longer expectation, it is given. That is also the reason why the general attitude of a raiding guild can seem elitist to a casual player who does not like the harsh requirement they have for the members.

Everytime I joined a better guild, the gear was never a factor for me, I just wanted to beat the content without having to try and do it with headless chickens. 

"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19273

8/11/12 4:48:31 PM#36
Originally posted by JoeyMMO
Originally posted by Vannor
Well I hate raiding because it's a massive time investment and starts taking over your life. I have a real life to live. I'm sure a large percentage of those that don't like raiding dislike it for the same reason.

 This is short and good. Building your life around a raid schedule, doing the same thing over and over and over. Who in their right mind finds that fun? Carrot-on-a-stick games enough of those around. Can we have one that doesn't require you to build your life around something that is supposed to be entertaining, please?

To be fair, it must be .. otherwise why so many do it?

Personally, i think entertainment needs to be assessible on ANY schedule. It is not very life-friendly to design a GAME assuming players would schedule other stuff around it.

Smaller, shorter dungeons and LFD/LFR tools are a step in the right direction.

  rissies

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/23/11
Posts: 162

8/11/12 5:24:23 PM#37
Part if its design, part of it's players. But its odd that you say smaller size and less difficulty make people dislike raiding, as they make raiding more accessible And less of a chore to organize. Those two points are more the complaints of someone who already likes raiding than the pov of someone who'd rather not.
  StonesDK

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/06/11
Posts: 1832

8/11/12 5:53:35 PM#38

OP doesn't apply to me either

I don't like raids because I find competing for 3 - 4 pieces of loot between 20 - 40 people rediculous and a complete waste of my time. I'm not one of those MMO hippies that does it for the comradry or the prestige of killing things.

 

If MMORPGS start to equally reward every player on raids, instead of faulty playermade point systems in all it's variants (yes your favorite point system too) then I might change my stance. Until then I'm just going to enjoy MMORPGs until endgame comes then quit and play something else

  DeeMarie

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/20/11
Posts: 21

8/11/12 6:24:26 PM#39
Originally posted by thexrated
I do not know why you think that players who enjoy raiding are all about gear. I would argue that the gear is usually a bigger issue in crappier guilds. While you might be right that some people solely want to be in the top guild in order to get gear, it is usually the minority. What most enjoy is the challenge and being with like-minded and committed people, who enjoy the beating the raid content as fast as possible (perhaps even competing against other guilds trying to do the same).

 

The best raiding guild I was in, was less about gear and getting pixels, than it was about beating the content as a raiding force. Most fun I'd ever had in WoW, and very social too.

 

Not sure why people are bashing scheduled raids either. Of course not everyone can commit to a certain time every week, but that's why there's various raid difficulties these days. I'm sure you can log into current WoW and pug a raid in your free time. Or maybe it's that you can't pug the best, top raid for the best, top gear in your free hour...but that's another issue.

 

But schedules are no different that booking that night out with your friends, or sitting down to watch your favourite soap, or setting aside time to go to that football match etc. You set aside what time you can for your hobby then find like-minded people to play it with.

  User Deleted
8/11/12 6:28:45 PM#40
Originally posted by DeeMarie
Originally posted by thexrated
I do not know why you think that players who enjoy raiding are all about gear. I would argue that the gear is usually a bigger issue in crappier guilds. While you might be right that some people solely want to be in the top guild in order to get gear, it is usually the minority. What most enjoy is the challenge and being with like-minded and committed people, who enjoy the beating the raid content as fast as possible (perhaps even competing against other guilds trying to do the same).

 

The best raiding guild I was in, was less about gear and getting pixels, than it was about beating the content as a raiding force. Most fun I'd ever had in WoW, and very social too.

 

Not sure why people are bashing scheduled raids either. Of course not everyone can commit to a certain time every week, but that's why there's various raid difficulties these days. I'm sure you can log into current WoW and pug a raid in your free time. Or maybe it's that you can't pug the best, top raid for the best, top gear in your free hour...but that's another issue.

 

But schedules are no different that booking that night out with your friends, or sitting down to watch your favourite soap, or setting aside time to go to that football match etc. You set aside what time you can for your hobby then find like-minded people to play it with.

 

I'm with you on this one. If you can be in the right guild, it can make the game very fun. I think most of the hate on raiding is from those that never experienced what it was like to be in a good guild. Which is a shame, but understandable. I've experienced both.

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