Originally posted by Foomerang

I like to play games like nariusseldon, just not particularly in my mmorpgs. The type of game he is describing is best enjoyed at an arcade with a handful of quarters. Unfortunately thats also what a AAA mmo is these days.

If you really want to go there, what you describe is not actually playing a game but playing like playing with a doll house.

Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by Foomerang

I like to play games like nariusseldon, just not particularly in my mmorpgs. The type of game he is describing is best enjoyed at an arcade with a handful of quarters. Unfortunately thats also what a AAA mmo is these days.

If you really want to go there, what you describe is not actually playing a game but playing like playing with a doll house.

Is this a Top Trumps game of shockingly bad analogies or something?

Originally posted by bunnyhopper

Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by Foomerang

I like to play games like nariusseldon, just not particularly in my mmorpgs. The type of game he is describing is best enjoyed at an arcade with a handful of quarters. Unfortunately thats also what a AAA mmo is these days.

If you really want to go there, what you describe is not actually playing a game but playing like playing with a doll house.

Is this a Top Trumps game of shockingly bad analogies or something? If so, I think you just won.

I just think he completely missed the point of time investment style vs the jump in and out style.  As always, it depends on what you want from a particular game.  Which, is exactly what Foomerang was eluding too.

Originally posted by bunnyhopper

Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by Foomerang

I like to play games like nariusseldon, just not particularly in my mmorpgs. The type of game he is describing is best enjoyed at an arcade with a handful of quarters. Unfortunately thats also what a AAA mmo is these days.

If you really want to go there, what you describe is not actually playing a game but playing like playing with a doll house.

Is this a Top Trumps game of shockingly bad analogies or something?

I want a MMO that plays like playdoh and firecrackers personally.

Originally posted by Foomerang

Lets move on to non combat classes and how they've been swept under the rug. Or do you still want to talk about travel times. Would you agree that a virtual world needs more to do than combat and mini games? The crafting is pathetic in most and is usually obsolete about three hours into launch day. Do you think this is fine too? I dont.

 

I 100% agree with you that the crafting in these games are complete garbage. The last few games to have any worth while crafting were VG DAoC and Istaria ( Horizons )

You may want to look too a game like A Tale in the Desert for insperation for non combat clases. Hell doesent even FF14 have non bombat classes. I would LOVE to play one.

Originally posted by quasi_dead

Genre isn't dead. It's dormant.

 

It's annoying and frustrating, but the demand is there, and will be sated eventually. My hopes rest with archeage. I just hope I don't have kids by then so they get to have all the fun. 

 

In other news, nariusseldon's opinions make me sick in my mouth.

Right there with ya pal.

Originally posted by FelixMajor
*dead to him* he means

Oh no, if its dead to him its dead to everyone.

Originally posted by bunnyhopper

Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by Foomerang

I like to play games like nariusseldon, just not particularly in my mmorpgs. The type of game he is describing is best enjoyed at an arcade with a handful of quarters. Unfortunately thats also what a AAA mmo is these days.

If you really want to go there, what you describe is not actually playing a game but playing like playing with a doll house.

Is this a Top Trumps game of shockingly bad analogies or something?

He started it.

Originally posted by paroxysm

Originally posted by Foomerang

Lets move on to non combat classes and how they've been swept under the rug. Or do you still want to talk about travel times. Would you agree that a virtual world needs more to do than combat and mini games? The crafting is pathetic in most and is usually obsolete about three hours into launch day. Do you think this is fine too? I dont.

 

Non combat classes.  It really depends on the game.  Take a game with world pvp/pvp servers.  Something built as a pure support class is going to have a hard time in that game.  But, you can't just take those support classes, homogenize their offense with dps classes, and call it good like some games have.  Sadly, I like to play support classes.  And, as much as I love them, It's easy to see why they are problematic for developers.

Virtual worlds.  In the last few mmorpgs that I have played, that is a common missing element.  The community aspect is just flat out not there.  Classes are made to be self sufficient for anything but raiding.  There is no going to people to get things made or done for crafting anymore.  Everything is just premade and sold on an auction house.  You never remember who made things or has that rare recipe anymore.  The design is good and bad, but it definitely helps lose the community aspect of it.  Buffing others has also been reduced to group/raid buffs only that are truly generic in nature.  Group/raid wide smallnumber% buffs that are shared by multiple classes and don't stack are fair, but very boring.  LFG/LFR with short cross server queues make for quick setups, but do you remember people from the group?  Do you remember how they played?  Do you care about if they get the gear they need or do you just want it all for profit even if you won't wear it.  Convenience is nice, but is it worth what we lose to it?

I've played mmorpgs where end game loot is looted and where end game loot is 100% player made.  I honestly can't say I have a preference.  I can say that in the games I've played of late, crafting has felt pretty bad.  Some feel horribly shallow(TSW) and others feel pointless except for very select professions or a very small amount of items(SWTOR).

I think one of the biggest issues I have with mmorpgs of late is how they try to achieve balance.  Developers are on this kick of trying to remove the number of variables or the amount of variance to try to make balancing easier.  It needs to stop.  It's flat out boring.  And sadly, the games aren't really any closer to being remotely balanced.  Try a new approach.

For the most part this. Crafting for me has been a HUGE letdown in mmos of today's. last one to do it right was VG. Sure crafting was tough and complicated but that made the rewards from it ( plats, a sense of accomplishment and notoriety) worth the hard work that was put into it.

There was a CRAFTING COMMUNITY. Those who built homes knew they needed other mats from other crafters to get houses built. Same for boat builders. They needed masts, sails and riggings to get it done and they would have to find an tailor to get them made. And the community knew who made what.

 If Frenton wasn't on to make t3 thatches then Byron was on and he too could make them. You had to keep a list on your desk of people that could make cretin things. "Oh Spike isent on to make your high end armor piece? you should try Jaridus" ( can't remember spelling of his name). I want these days back. The days where everyone CANT do everything themselves.

And make it hard so people can't make 5 alts with maxed out professions. Im just tired of all this gimmie now, i don't have time to waist playing mmos to get what i want so just let me buy it or make it crazy easy type of games we have today.

Originally posted by paroxysm

Originally posted by bunnyhopper

Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by Foomerang

I like to play games like nariusseldon, just not particularly in my mmorpgs. The type of game he is describing is best enjoyed at an arcade with a handful of quarters. Unfortunately thats also what a AAA mmo is these days.

If you really want to go there, what you describe is not actually playing a game but playing like playing with a doll house.

Is this a Top Trumps game of shockingly bad analogies or something? If so, I think you just won.

I just think he completely missed the point of time investment style vs the jump in and out style.  As always, it depends on what you want from a particular game.  Which, is exactly what Foomerang was eluding too.

But you cant tell them that. They have a very unique way of twisting the subject to distort the meaning of something. There so good at it im wondering if they had to take a class for it. Distorting 101.

Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by FelixMajor
*dead to him* he means

Oh no, if its dead to him its dead to everyone.

Both of you know what he means. You dont even need to be told theres a underline subtext. You have been told what "dead" means in this thread. Dont try and belittle his sentiment.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by paroxysm

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Foomerang

 

---

Originally posted by nariusseldon
Dead?

 

The market is huge and may still be expanding. Going into a direction you do not like != dead.

In fact, i think it is becoming MORE ALIVE, solving all the old problems (like camping & finding groups with instances & LFD/LFR), while giving a large part of the games to the players for FREE.

It is getting BETTER.

---

 

the genre is dead. not the market. the business of taking old console game concepts into the mmo space is huge. the genre that attempted to make virtual worlds is dead.

Yeh. The genre of virtual world is dead. But MMOs are NOT virtual worlds anymore. They are lobby based co-op games .. and this genre is flourishing.

Then they should call them what they are with a different name or acronym for that new name and not MMORPG.  Because they aren't.  There is nothing "Massively Multiplayer" about them.  It'll also make it easier to avoid them without having to wade through all the hype text to find out what kind of game it really is.

Semantics .. semantics ...

personally i do really care what they call them. However, the common usage today *is* MMORPG.

WOW is a MMORPG.

DCUO is a MMORPG.

DDO is a MMORPG.

I play these GAMES mostly like a lobby co-op game .. because they have features supporting this style of play. I will call them MMORPG, until the day that gamespot, gamasutra, IGN, and other gaming media starting to refer them as something else. .

Calling some of the latest releases MMORPGs is like calling a Toyota Yaris a truck.  They have a lot of features in common, but they aren't able to be put into that category because of a missing identifying feature or two. 

Originally posted by kantseeme

Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by FelixMajor
*dead to him* he means

Oh no, if its dead to him its dead to everyone.

Both of you know what he means. You dont even need to be told theres a underline subtext. You have been told what "dead" means in this thread. Dont try and belittle his sentiment.

Why do you feel you need to defend a hyperbole and self-centered statement like that? It does not deserve a serious discussion. If you claimed that the Earth was flat, I'd show you the same kind of ridicule that I show the OP. (*) (**)

*(Granted, I couldn't come up with a similarly ridiculous hyperbole argument but you get the idea.)

**(I actually read an article written by a serious reporter from a serious magazine where he basically said he was convinced that the earth was flat and we should confirm it with an opinion poll. Yes, an opinion poll. I'm still not sure if it was a troll or that the author was really, really dumb. It wasn't even April Fool's day or anything...)

---

Originally posted by Quirhid

---

Originally posted by FelixMajor *dead to him* he means

---

Oh no, if its dead to him its dead to everyone.

---

Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by kantseeme

Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by FelixMajor
*dead to him* he means

Oh no, if its dead to him its dead to everyone.

Both of you know what he means. You dont even need to be told theres a underline subtext. You have been told what "dead" means in this thread. Dont try and belittle his sentiment.

Why do you feel you need to defend a hyperbole and self-centered statement like that? It does not deserve a serious discussion. If you claimed that the Earth was flat, I'd show you the same kind of ridicule that I show the OP. (*) (**)

 

*(Granted, I couldn't come up with a similarly ridiculous hyperbole argument but you get the idea.)

**(I actually read an article written by a serious reporter from a serious magazine where he basically said he was convinced that the earth was flat and we should confirm it with an opinion poll. Yes, an opinion poll. I'm still not sure if it was a troll or that the author was really, really dumb. It wasn't even April Fool's day or anything...)

Then the same can be said about your argument about travel being shallow as a hyperbole argument.

Where not talking about a fact here as in the world if flat or not. We're talking about game mechanics and how we see and interact with them. To you there boring to me there chances for new experiences. We're arguing likes and dislikes and what should be classified as a MMO these days. Not if the world is flat.

Stick to the topics and stop trying to spin the topic with redundant hypothetical's. Your just sounding ridicules now.

Did you change your major from Distorting to Derailment?

Originally posted by kantseeme

Originally posted by laokoko
[mod edit]

[mod edit]

[mod edit]  he says he like sandbox game(ala virtual world) only.

and if you mean me.  Don't worry about me.  I don't have trouble finding game.

Originally posted by laokoko

Originally posted by kantseeme

Originally posted by laokoko
[mod edit]

[mod edit]

[mod edit]  he says he like sandbox game(ala virtual world) only.

and if you mean me.  Don't worry about me.  I don't have trouble finding game.

I was refering to you.

Originally posted by kantseeme

Originally posted by Quirhid
 

Then the same can be said about your argument about travel being shallow as a hyperbole argument.

 

Where not talking about a fact here as in the world if flat or not. We're talking about game mechanics and how we see and interact with them. To you there boring to me there chances for new experiences. We're arguing likes and dislikes and what should be classified as a MMO these days. Not if the world is flat.

 

Stick to the topics and stop trying to spin the topic with redundant hypothetical's. Your just sounding ridicules now.

 

Did you change your major from Distorting to Derailment?

I've said travel is boring overwhelming majority of the time and avoiding aggrobubbles is a minigame. I've not said they're shallow (you're confusing me with Axehilt).

The topic is "This genre is dead" which it isn't. Many have posted their replies why this is not true. I have not diverged from that. The premise is wrong. There shouldn't be a discussion.

And your ad hominems really don't give you credibility.

Originally posted by kantseeme

Originally posted by laokoko

Originally posted by kantseeme

Originally posted by laokoko
[mod edit]

[mod edit]

[mod edit]  he says he like sandbox game(ala virtual world) only.

and if you mean me.  Don't worry about me.  I don't have trouble finding game.

I was refering to you.

So there is this game.  Which is 100% what seemed to match everything he described he want, and 100% opposite of things he dont' want. [mod edit]