Originally posted by Popori

Raiding isn't really something that fits in with GW2 design.  Not only that but what is the real difference between raids and 5mans outside the number of players?  The same content could be created and scaled to less people, right?  I guess I just don't really see a need for it.  I'd prefer more meaningful and challenging dungeons, personally.  I imagine they'll be easier to design and balance with only five players in mind than 20-40.

I've raid-ed- but I'm no raid-er- so my opinion is likely biased.  But as stated, I'd prefer they didn't add them.  I think 5man dungeons can provide the same experiences if they're designed to do so.

The only thing I would disagree with is the level of difficulty between say a 20 man raid and a 5 man dungeon.

Some raid boss fights take weeks for a guild to learn and properly execute if not longer. The feeling you get when you finally get that kill is much different than in a smaller scale dungeon.

But its just a discussion. I doubt we would ever see it in Gw2 as it definetly does not fit the game in the traditional sense but I think anything is possible and was interested in others opinions. I think they could break the mold with raid progression like they have in some other areas. Maybe people that didnt like traditional raiding would love what ANET came up with.

who knows :P

Arenanet have created raid type content before. I refer specifically to - The Deep and Urgoz Warren from GW1. 

They were 12 man instances (typical party max is 8) and required a LOT of co-ordination. There were deadly/debilitating global environmental effects and hard extremely tough trash on top of harder bosses. If your entire party happened to die then it's just game over - return to outpost. Want to try again? Start from the beginning. These places are completely unforgiving.

These places only provided cosmetic gear, rare materials and bragging rights. I can't say how popular they are today but in their prime that top tier content rivals heroic raiding. I do not joke here.

Could they do it? Yes.. it is their game, they are smart people, technicaly there is no reason they couldn't do it. 

Will they do it.. no, and I am thankfull. The problem with raid content is that only a small percent of the population gets to see it. I don't have time to sign up and schedule play time with 20 or 40 other people anymore... and neither do alot of people. Anet is trying to make a game that everyone can play, raiding leaves alot of people on the outside looking in.

When I think back to previous games I've raided in, it seems like all of the endgame content was centered around the next raid. The next patch. What raid do we get next?

What I would prefer in GW2 is for them to expand the world as quickly as possible. I want to ask the question, "what zone do we get next?" I feel like the bigger, more varied  and more interesting they make the world, the happier I will be. They can even expand the world on levels lower than 80. Over time, because of level scaling and the way their system works, the world becomes massive and nothing is made obsolete.

I think once the world gets to a certain point in size and quality, adding zones that are more exclusive to players requiring a challenge open up. It becomes more attractive to add challenging content than regular content. Entire zones that require 10+ people to compete in could be part of the future of Dynamic Events and zones. It's really this style of raiding that I'm looking forward to.

Originally posted by Skarecrow7

Could they do it? Yes.. it is their game, they are smart people, technicaly there is no reason they couldn't do it. 

 

Will they do it.. no, and I am thankfull. The problem with raid content is that only a small percent of the population gets to see it. I don't have time to sign up and schedule play time with 20 or 40 other people anymore... and neither do alot of people. Anet is trying to make a game that everyone can play, raiding leaves alot of people on the outside looking in.

I can see that with traditional raiding but traditional raiding wouldnt work in GW2 anyway. The system ANET could introduce could be something never seen before.. something that everyone could take part in and enjoy. But even if it wasnt for casuals the gear rewards would not set raiders apart but would still provide them with the same challenges.

The better gear rewards is usually why casuals speak out against raiding but in GW2 the gear would not be any more powerful.

One of the reasons I'm wanting to play GW2 is the LACK of raiding.   I mean, I suppose they could HAVE raiding and I just wouldn't do it.  I'm so burnt out on raiding I honestly couldn't care less if I never raid again.  Small groups are plenty excitement for me.  But I'm not opposed to people that WANT to raid getting to raid.

Anyway, the answer to the OP......no, I would not.

Originally posted by colddog04

When I think back to previous games I've raided in, it seems like all of the endgame content was centered around the next raid. The next patch. What raid do we get next?

 

What I would prefer in GW2 is for them to expand the world as quickly as possible. I want to ask the question, "what zone do we get next?" I feel like the bigger, more varied  and more interesting they make the world, the happier I will be. They can even expand the world on levels lower than 80. Over time, because of level scaling and the way their system works, the world becomes massive and nothing is made obsolete.

 

I think once the world gets to a certain point in size and quality, adding zones that are more exclusive to players requiring a challenge open up as a more attractive option than adding something that is available to everyone. Entire zones that require 10+ people to compete in could be part of the future of Dynamic Events and zones. It's really this style of raiding that I'm looking forward to.

you sir are absolutely correct , and I can agree 100% with this. Im so sick of playing games for months and then having to grind more levels and chase more gear. This game is about exploration and its about time a mmorpg gets that . I hope they never raise the level cap and keep adding in new zones to explore and level down to etc. If you want to make a community that is immersed this is a great idea to impliment.

Originally posted by Magnetia

Arenanet have created raid type content before. I refer specifically to - The Deep and Urgoz Warren from GW1. 

They were 12 man instances (typical party max is 8) and required a LOT of co-ordination. There were deadly/debilitating global environmental effects and hard extremely tough trash on top of harder bosses. If your entire party happened to die then it's just game over - return to outpost. Want to try again? Start from the beginning. These places are completely unforgiving.

These places only provided cosmetic gear, rare materials and bragging rights. I can't say how popular they are today but in their prime that top tier content rivals heroic raiding. I do not joke here.

 

that sounds fun. I wouldnt mind actually playing with my other friends too making a party of 10-12.

Originally posted by Epic1oots

Originally posted by Magnetia

Arenanet have created raid type content before. I refer specifically to - The Deep and Urgoz Warren from GW1. 

They were 12 man instances (typical party max is 8) and required a LOT of co-ordination. There were deadly/debilitating global environmental effects and hard extremely tough trash on top of harder bosses. If your entire party happened to die then it's just game over - return to outpost. Want to try again? Start from the beginning. These places are completely unforgiving.

These places only provided cosmetic gear, rare materials and bragging rights. I can't say how popular they are today but in their prime that top tier content rivals heroic raiding. I do not joke here.

 

that sounds fun. I wouldnt mind actually playing with my other friends too making a party of 10-12.

Yeah that does sound fun.

They could be similiar to GW1s Underworld/FoW that drop special mats used @ special armor venders as well.

It could definitely work, and the game already has some content more geared for this type of experience.

Basically, the only real issue here is that getting 12 people to all stack on 1 boss is a bit of a clusterf&*. They would probably have to design the encounters to split up the groups back down into smaller chunks, and have each group performing a different task (ie. group 1 on boss, group 2 defending / using device across the room, group 3 on cleanup) Not entirely out of the question.

Originally posted by aesperus

It could definitely work, and the game already has some content more geared for this type of experience.

Basically, the only real issue here is that getting 12 people to all stack on 1 boss is a bit of a clusterf&*. They would probably have to design the encounters to split up the groups back down into smaller chunks, and have each group performing a different task (ie. group 1 on boss, group 2 defending / using device across the room, group 3 on cleanup) Not entirely out of the question.

yea I could see this being a problem without set roles and such would really just depend on the mechanics of the fight I suppose. Either way in some form or another i can see them adding something although the elder dragon battles look to be a lot of fun for a large group of players to tackle

Originally posted by Preacher26

Originally posted by Epic1oots

Originally posted by Magnetia

Arenanet have created raid type content before. I refer specifically to - The Deep and Urgoz Warren from GW1. 

They were 12 man instances (typical party max is 8) and required a LOT of co-ordination. There were deadly/debilitating global environmental effects and hard extremely tough trash on top of harder bosses. If your entire party happened to die then it's just game over - return to outpost. Want to try again? Start from the beginning. These places are completely unforgiving.

These places only provided cosmetic gear, rare materials and bragging rights. I can't say how popular they are today but in their prime that top tier content rivals heroic raiding. I do not joke here.

 

that sounds fun. I wouldnt mind actually playing with my other friends too making a party of 10-12.

Yeah that does sound fun.

They could be similiar to GW1s Underworld/FoW that drop special mats used @ special armor venders as well.

It is fun but I do warn that it eventually breeded elitism. It became harder and harder to find groups because they wanted you in a specific type of build. If you weren't running it you weren't coming. Optimized builds were a product of wanting fast/reliable runs of course. Although there was probably still room to create different builds once you get something that works/filters down from the elite it usually became the staple.

Originally posted by Magnetia

Originally posted by Preacher26

Originally posted by Epic1oots

Originally posted by Magnetia

Arenanet have created raid type content before. I refer specifically to - The Deep and Urgoz Warren from GW1. 

They were 12 man instances (typical party max is 8) and required a LOT of co-ordination. There were deadly/debilitating global environmental effects and hard extremely tough trash on top of harder bosses. If your entire party happened to die then it's just game over - return to outpost. Want to try again? Start from the beginning. These places are completely unforgiving.

These places only provided cosmetic gear, rare materials and bragging rights. I can't say how popular they are today but in their prime that top tier content rivals heroic raiding. I do not joke here.

 

that sounds fun. I wouldnt mind actually playing with my other friends too making a party of 10-12.

Yeah that does sound fun.

They could be similiar to GW1s Underworld/FoW that drop special mats used @ special armor venders as well.

It is fun but I do warn that it eventually breeded elitism. It became harder and harder to find groups because they wanted you in a specific type of build. If you weren't running it you weren't coming. Optimized builds were a product of wanting fast/reliable runs of course. Although there was probably still room to create different builds once you get something that works/filters down from the elite it usually became the staple.

Do you honestly believe we will not be seeing this anyway? in GW2?

As much as we would like to think it wont happen I cant help but be a bit of a negative nancy. Fact of the matter is there will always be some builds that are better suited for certain roles than others. There will always be people min/maxing.

People will definetly be /LF specific profession/build combos for dungeons/sPvP. Its just the way of things.

Originally posted by Preacher26

Do you honestly believe we will not be seeing this anyway? in GW2?

As much as we would like to think it wont happen I cant help but be a bit of a negative nancy. Fact of the matter is there will always be some builds that are better suited for certain roles than others. There will always be people min/maxing.

People will definetly be /LF specific profession/build combos for dungeons/sPvP. Its just the way of things.

 

Haha yeah I guess I was already expecting it. Buildcast and Arenajunkies probably proves this. Hearing Ed Parks talk about pvp is scary.

I haven't watched the whole thing but I found a Woodenpotatoes video for The Deep (the one I finished, never seen urgoz warren)

http://youtu.be/bkZsCLOkRaM?t=9m14s

First bit is him farting about.

Originally posted by colddog04
Basically they would amount to instanced dynamic events with a higher difficulty. I think they could work without the trinity in the same way large scale dynamic events work without the trinity.

Yeah.   The fire elemental zone boss in the 1-15 Asura area could easily be a model.  Though that particular encounter has issues the developers are well aware of...  :)

I will skip the implementation part and jump right to the incentive side of the problem.

I think that having gear rewards for raiding is a condition for certain percentage of raiders. I am sure that there would be some people who would be raiding for cosmetic gear, titles, achievements, and similar kind of rewards. I am convinced that there would be some people who would actually do raids for the social aspect and simply the fun they get from it.

In order to determine what the percentages would be, you would have to throw here a poll asking "Would you be raiding without any gear rewards"... yes / no.

Despite the fact that I did enjoy the social aspect of raiding (ventrilo with my guild) and the boss fights themselves, I probably would not be raiding if it did not have the "point" which for me is making my character stronger. However, I believe that people who share the same attitude are in a minority, so that raiding may be a vital acitivity in GW 2.

Originally posted by Aelious
For the sake of argument IMO raid = epic content taking 10 or more people to defeat.

It might in ANets best interest to introduce some sort of instanced raid progression depending on how sucessful GW2 is. While I'm a fan of overworld raid content, and love how you interact with strangers in GW2, there can come a point where too much is a bad thing.

Raid DEs are supposed to scale by # of people so they are challenging and fun. Too many people could make the encounter either trivial or frustrating if the boss becomes so powerful it's instantly one-shotting people. I believe ANet already knows and has it under control. I'm going to pretend they don't.

Giving traditional raiders instanced raiding could spread the players out a bit and let the system function easier. All studies have show. There are more casual players than hardcore/raiders so its not as through those doing open world encounters will be hung out to dry, there will be plenty of people there.

If they do that, they better not think of placing high level gear into them as a reward, or it's race to the endgame all over again. We don't need GW2 to be added to the crap pile of WoW wannabes tyvm.