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General Discussion  » Zenimax Matt Firor latest interview......TESO is an online RPG

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  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6980

8/10/12 7:12:47 PM#121


Originally posted by iceman00

Only if you define "strong selling" as 10 million plus.

Morrowind and Oblivion and even Skyrim moved millions of units on the PC.  Even when it was on consoles, it had a certain art feel.  They intentionally stayed away from the cartoony look that a lot of other RPG's had adopted.  ESO looks like a cartoon.  A very nice cartoon, but still a cartoon.  Now we just need tons of particle effects swirling around people when spells are cast.

So you are correct on the art part, but don't get where whether or not it sold well on the PC having anything to do with why it isn't consistent with that art.


Already elaborated on it there:


Originally posted by Gdemami

Well, according to Bethesda themselves, only about 10% of their Skyrim sales is towards PC platform.
ie:
http://www.neoseeker.com/news/16252-bethesda-90-of-elder-scrolls-audience-on-consoles/


Morrowind and Oblivion are the same. Consoles is where their sales are strong at, not PC platform.


Elder Scrolls might be popular and create some buzz in certain circles but still minor when compared to other genres or platforms.


and again:


Originally posted by Gdemami

That is the only relevant factor.

It is the PC gamers that are likely to play PC based MMO and when you consider TES PC fan base as a part of MMO market, your target audience would be insignificant.

It makes more sense to focus on average MMO gamer rather than TES gamer.


TES fan base is just too small compared to MMO customer base, therefore the game needs to cater to larger MMO audience, this includes art as well.

  iceman00

Novice Member

Joined: 5/04/05
Posts: 1367

Kevin Tierney

8/10/12 7:24:22 PM#122
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by MadnessRealm

@Gdemani  Generally, games with awards tends to have the sales to back them up. Skyrim alone had an insane amount of awards, especially GOTY.  Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim have still managed to bring significant sales, despite being very taxing computer-wise when they launched.

 

Either way, here's a good read on Skyrim's sales, although there are no direct number to distinguish between PC and console aside from Steam's launch numbers : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elder_Scrolls_V:_Skyrim#Sales


 

Well, according to Bethesda themselves, only about 10% of their Skyrim sales is towards PC platform.
ie:
http://www.neoseeker.com/news/16252-bethesda-90-of-elder-scrolls-audience-on-consoles/


Morrowind and Oblivion are the same. Consoles is where their sales are strong at, not PC platform.


Elder Scrolls might be popular and create some buzz in certain circles but still minor when compared to other genres or platforms.


That is most likely a reason why TESO will keep little resemblance with TES series, it would not make much sense otherwise. I only hoped for the art as I am a bit fed up with the generic, cartoon-asian-style look of fantasy games.

You might want to read.

The article is from April 2011.  Skyrim wasn't released until later in the year.

Steam's stats show 5 million users who have played Skyrim.

As for the consoles, it probably had anywhere from 7 million upwards users.  So the consoles had all the people getting it originally, but the PC sales are still going strong thanks to the modding community and the Steam Workshop which was launched with this game in mind.

Valve isn't going to use Skyrim as a test case for their workshop if barely anyone is playing it.

And you also forget, Elder scrolls released the high texture packs.  Also combined with other user mods, honestly, the graphics turned out pretty freaking crazy.  And the modding community hasn't even really started blowing it up yet.  Just wait to see what you get near the end of this year with graphics mods.

So yeah, you run with an article that is old, and is proven obselete by more relevant and current data.

Care to try again?

  iceman00

Novice Member

Joined: 5/04/05
Posts: 1367

Kevin Tierney

8/10/12 7:32:21 PM#123

But let's take your numbers.

We know that Skyrim shipped over 10 million units in Jan.  Let's say right now Skyrim has moved 12-13 million units.  (Pretty conservative figure.)

Now according to you, that is 10% of users are PC users.  That's 1.2 to 1.3 million users who are the BASE.  These are the people who are going to be the ones you first appeal to before you start the mass marketing (which will follow.)

Not sure if you've noticed, but that base is bigger than most MMOs.  Even if only 50% stayed, it would be in TOR territory, without TOR's budget. 

So the audience for Skyrim is there.  One thing about PC players of the Elder Scrolls series.... they are hardcore.  If you give them something that is like TES, they will play the crap out of it.  If anything this is a better advantage than the Star Wars IP, as the Star wars IP ranged from RPG's to FPS's to even an RTS.

The people who play Skyrim?  They play the same genre.

The idea that TES' customer base on PC is too small to make a successful MMO really shows a disregard for the facts.

 

  User Deleted
8/10/12 10:52:44 PM#124

The real question is, if they consider the console game market to be their number one point of sale and priority for future development, then why bother making TESO just a PC game to begin with? Sure, rumor is they are leery of taking a jump before the next gen units arrive but fact is both MS and particularly SOE are willing to work with developers in that regard for future proofing a title. Just look at CCP and DUST514 as an example. As just a PC MMO it reads fail on so many levels but as a console game I’d have to look at it differently.

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6980

8/11/12 2:59:37 AM#125


Originally posted by iceman00

Care to try again?

Try again what? My point still stands - Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim are strong in sales on consoles, not PC platform.

PC platform is just minor customer base of their overall sales.


Originally posted by iceman00

That's 1.2 to 1.3 million users who are the BASE. 

So that is 1.3M Skyrim player base compared to 20M MMO customer base...

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5322

8/11/12 8:42:18 AM#126
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by iceman00

Care to try again?

 

Try again what? My point still stands - Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim are strong in sales on consoles, not PC platform.

PC platform is just minor customer base of their overall sales.

 

 


Originally posted by iceman00

That's 1.2 to 1.3 million users who are the BASE. 


 

So that is 1.3M Skyrim player base compared to 20M MMO customer base...

 

 

none of this matters. TES fans are not console or PC players they are TES players. That is where this is such a massive fail on so many levels. If Zenimax truely are taking this warped view of things then they really need to be out of the industry. Again, we are TES fans NOT PC or Console fans.

 

An example of that is sports cars. Sport car fans who drive on the freeway in traffic are not freeway traffic fans now are they?

Correlation does not imply causation

  Nitth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3303

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

8/11/12 8:49:49 AM#127


Originally posted by biogerm

Originally posted by nilden /meh
may i ask where is that image from? ^_^

Star ocean 3 right?


TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  3-4thElf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/03/12
Posts: 495

8/12/12 7:58:32 AM#128
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by iceman00

Care to try again?

 

Try again what? My point still stands - Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim are strong in sales on consoles, not PC platform.

PC platform is just minor customer base of their overall sales.

 

 


Originally posted by iceman00

That's 1.2 to 1.3 million users who are the BASE. 


 

So that is 1.3M Skyrim player base compared to 20M MMO customer base...

 

 

none of this matters. TES fans are not console or PC players they are TES players. That is where this is such a massive fail on so many levels. If Zenimax truely are taking this warped view of things then they really need to be out of the industry. Again, we are TES fans NOT PC or Console fans.

 

An example of that is sports cars. Sport car fans who drive on the freeway in traffic are not freeway traffic fans now are they?

I think that's pretty true.

I played Daggerfall to Oblivion on PC just because I always had a nice gaming machine made. I picked up Skyrim on the XBox just because I anticipated a more action game feel and can't say I've been disappointed with it (I hate missing out on the mods, but my PC with a 6800 GTX still runs well so I can't bring myself to invest in a new computer just yet).

It was a fun Elder Scrolls game. 

The 2002-2004 model of MMORPG is NOT a fun Elder Scrolls game.

Public dungeons, phasing, instances, this and that aside. I just hate the direction they've boasted about with the game.

People say wait for more information.. What more info do you need? Tab target, class based, forced factions, phased, level grind MMO. We've seen it a few dozen times over now and you'd think Zeni would get their heads out of their asses and see the chance to buck the trend.

You know Blizzard isn't looking to make a WoW-clone.

SO why would any other triple A publisher even attempt it?

a yo ho ho

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6980

8/12/12 8:32:27 AM#129


Originally posted by 3-4thElf

SO why would any other triple A publisher even attempt it?

Because the post what you were replying to isn't "pretty true".

Read my posts above and you will find the answer.

  Zairu

Novice Member

Joined: 1/09/09
Posts: 493

Yes, this is a personal attack.

8/12/12 8:53:53 AM#130
Originally posted by ste2000

 

I

Yet, Bethesda (which owns Zenimax Online) is not EA which push any piece of crap as soon as possible to meet investors deadlines

Bethesda is more like Blizzard which famous motto is "we release it when it is done"

So I actually expect the game to be pushed back a couple of years, and sure I will be waiting.

 

 

 

 

Zenimax Online is owned by Zenimax Media.

Bethesda is also owned by Zenimax Media.

Bethesda has NOTHING to do with TESO.

a few fact checks help before making threads with misconceptions. too many people don't understand that this game has NOTHING to do with Bethesda or any TESO game.

 

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16706

8/12/12 8:57:50 AM#131
OP: Diablo 3 is not a RPG, it is an action game or a hack and slash game. 
  coretex666

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/03/12
Posts: 1820

"I shall take your position into consideration"

8/12/12 9:14:53 AM#132
Originally posted by Loke666
OP: Diablo 3 is not a RPG, it is an action game or a hack and slash game. 

I understand what you mean by Diablo not being an RPG. If you follow its "official" definition, then it really isnt.

My own perception of RPG is slightly different and Diablo with its character development falls into this category, for me (especially D2 where it was a true masterpiece). For me, D2 is more of an RPG than GW 2, for instance.

For me, the RPG element is more about the character development in terms of stats, skills, items than about the literal "roleplaying". Development is the important word here, for me.

Currently playing: L2 Chronicle 4

  Jakdstripper

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/14/10
Posts: 2114

8/12/12 10:08:21 AM#133

RPG

like Real Piece of Garbage? i believe it.

  User Deleted
8/13/12 3:50:20 AM#134
Diablo 3 is an action role-playing videogame. I am not sure why that would ever be in question.
  iceman00

Novice Member

Joined: 5/04/05
Posts: 1367

Kevin Tierney

8/14/12 5:31:40 PM#135
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by iceman00

Care to try again?

 

Try again what? My point still stands - Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim are strong in sales on consoles, not PC platform.

PC platform is just minor customer base of their overall sales.

 

 


Originally posted by iceman00

That's 1.2 to 1.3 million users who are the BASE. 


 

So that is 1.3M Skyrim player base compared to 20M MMO customer base...

 

 

You said that Bethesda had Skyrim's sales as 90% on consoles.  Except the quote came out before Skyrim launched, and really had no hard figures.  So yeah, other than lacking evidence and a wrong timeframe, your quote was accurate?  When a game sells millions of units on a platform (anywhere from 2 million up) you really can't talk about a "minor" part of a sales base and expect to be taken credibly.  Minor yes, but its still pretty freaking big.

Like I said, care to try again?

My only point on "pc or console users" was more a theorycraft argument.  Using your own numbers, you've got a natural audience of 1.3 million PC users.  the number is higher.  My only point is, that's a very strong base of a game to work with.  Say half the TES fans don't play, that is still 750k.  That's 250k higher than EA's worst predictions that they could remain profitable..... on a 300-500 million dollar budget.  I'm guessing TES won't even be in the 150 range.  In other words, a ton of freaking money, and Zenimax is a fool for not trying to hook this base early.

Then again, you were a fanboi of TOR, and viewed the game as financially successful.  You've basically lost all credibility in any argument about financials in MMOs for at least the next 5 years.

  Yamota

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6509

"I fight so you don't have to."

8/14/12 5:35:08 PM#136
This game has Warhammer Online written all over it.

  Theocritus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3613

8/14/12 5:37:33 PM#137
     I'd venture to guess they sell a million boxes just because of the IP alone and its success over the years...... It doesn't hurt taht Skyrim was so good either.....Unfortunately that is going to be the standard that TESO is measured by though and it will surely be found lacking.
  Yamota

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6509

"I fight so you don't have to."

8/14/12 5:39:00 PM#138

How hard can it be to take one of their existing, wildly successful, game's (Skyrim) and turn it into an MMORPG?

Apparently really hard because they seem to do nothing like it. Don't get why it is though.

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6980

8/14/12 6:26:56 PM#139


Originally posted by iceman00

You said that Bethesda had Skyrim's sales as 90% on consoles.  Except the quote came out before Skyrim launched, and really had no hard figures.  So yeah, other than lacking evidence and a wrong timeframe, your quote was accurate? 

Yes, it is my bad, apparently it was not for Skyrim specifically but whole franchise.

Does not change my point tho and makes you rumbling pointlessly only.


You have some issues with concept of "potential customer base", not the same as "actual customer base".


Can't even say nice try since you were not able to make any point apart from pointing out my inaccuracy.

  winter

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/08/03
Posts: 2237

8/14/12 6:39:23 PM#140
Originally posted by 3-4thElf

Give me beta

I will give them hell.

If it's awesome I will eat my words.

But yeah, throwing IP on tired game play doesn't equal win. Unless win is having 250k subs to them. Then sure they can take all their little sheeps and go rot together. While I wait for the next Elder Scrolls game that hopefully grows from what was strong in Skyrim and add some more of that classic TES sim mechanics back into the game.

 Sadly TESO itself, has caused any elder scrolls game to be put on the back burner for the time being. If TESo fails as badly as most of us suspect. Further elder scrolls games will be put off even further as marketing will say any failure from TESO will also happen in ELDer scroll single player games. Yes i know it doesn't make sense but then marketing is all about current opinion (flavor of the month) , and numbers not sense

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