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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] General: Two ‘Failures’ and the Sandbox Revival

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148 posts found
  RoyalPhunk

Novice Member

Joined: 1/11/11
Posts: 181

8/09/12 1:10:03 PM#121

The point being all the good stuff is in the contested areas.  Even crafters need things from those areas.  So you either have to pvp or spend a lot to get those items.  It always ends up in games like this that a big guild will control specific resources, hence you will be stuck buying at their prices.  Not my idea of a very good game.  You contention that pvp is optional does not meet my definition of optional.

 

And those guys out in the area you are after will need items and base materials from you. Thats how it works in a Sandbox game. If they want to make money they will price it reasonably. If they are begging to be undercut they will be.

At first while the market is being seeded what you say may be true but the more gathering that takes place the less chance that this kind of thing occurs. In EvE there are people who craft and don't PVP in the most dangerous areas and those people are wildly useful to us and they make an insane amount money doing it and if they get into trouble we have their back.

  User Deleted
8/09/12 1:20:34 PM#122
Originally posted by Ozmodan
Originally posted by P4YB4CK
Originally posted by jusomdude
 

 

The point being all the good stuff is in the contested areas.  Even crafters need things from those areas.  So you either have to pvp or spend a lot to get those items.  It always ends up in games like this that a big guild will control specific resources, hence you will be stuck buying at their prices.  Not my idea of a very good game.  You contention that pvp is optional does not meet my definition of optional.

So you're saying because if you want certain things you will have to trade with pvper/clans or generally people who are willing to go into contested areas, somehow pvp is forced on you? I guess that means crafting is forced on everyone to because they have to deal with crafters for items, it's a forced crafting game?

 

It may not be your idea of a very good game but the set up makes perfect sense for a sandbox game.

 

  User Deleted
8/09/12 1:31:07 PM#123
Originally posted by P4YB4CK
Originally posted by jusomdude
 

 

I gotcha.

I remember the days all to well when I would PvP in SWG which we called a 'TEF' Temporary Enemy Flag if you saw a fellow Imp or Reb being attacked, you could just jump right on it. Throw a heal his or her way and now you are PvP enabled.

Yes I remember. The system effectively encouraged people to stand around safe watching a handful fight until they thought they had enough to gank and then they bravely all "jump in" before scrabbling away in order to wait to go non SF again before the other side could bring in numbers.

  Yalexy

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 1039

8/09/12 1:40:45 PM#124

The reason why sandboxes are not as popular is, that the players are not interested in long-term games. Players want instant rewards usually and not wait for the day they can bring in the crop they've worked for before.

Developers have no vision and that's why most sandboxes don't do very well. Look at EvE Online and see what a sandbox can be, if the devs have a vision.

  Reklaw

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/07/06
Posts: 6168

The adult I am takes care of most things real life. However my inner-child is a GAMER!!

8/09/12 4:47:14 PM#125
Originally posted by vesuvias

 

1. The article mentions SWTOR and then a common weakness of "Themeparks" not being able to keep up with content demands of a ravonous playerbase. SWTOR had plenty of content, I seriously doubt most people that quit consumed all of it. Thier problem wasn't a lack of content. It was designing a world that is better visited than lived in. There is nothing wrong with this and it is absolutly fun if players approach it this way. The sub fee doesn't fit with this type of game which is why f2p is a good choice for them.

 

2. If a sandbox means designing a world that is to be "lived in" I am not sure that will ever be anything more than niche. It's a time requirement issue. The pool of gamers that have 80 hours a week to throw at a game is much much smaller than the pool of gamers that have 20 or 10.

 

3. If sandbox means making an impact on the world Mindcraft style then yes, absolutly yes this is the next iteration of the genre. If it means fresh bleeding edge always different algorythmicly generated content that we can do once and never agian, then yes of course yes.

 

4. If it means FFA Full loot PvP, then no. If it means time commitments that likes of which olympic training doesn't even require, then of course no. If it means frustration so prevasive that you need to repeat the same activity 1000 times to be successful even once, then no. If it means a world so open ended that the only things to do is to grind mobs and emote going to bathroom, then hell no.

 

 1. I agree, the game is fun to play as a sort of online co-op game, it just doesn't feel MMORPG to me as there are to many restrictions and hardly any true freedom, it's all combat oriented, graphics are somewhat dated, yet certain skylines are breathtaken yet very much painted as no way to reach certain views. Yet I am enjoying it as a game and just put in the mind set of it just being a co-op online combat game which I feel suits the game much more then calling it a MMORPG.

2. I agree on your first sentence about a world to be lived in, put personaly and how I play I have to disagree with the rest in the pointed 2 part. I say personaly as I am a patient gamer when it comes to MMORPG, there is absolutely nothing that I should rush into, for competitive gameplay I already play plenty of other genre's, apart from singleplayer RPG MMORPG's come in second as the most relaxing type of casual game. While I might play it in what I consider to be pretty hardcore, cause to me hardcore has many layers. In short I take my time to become the best  but the only researche I take on my professions/skills/ability's can only come from within the game and MMORPG's use to make that possible, mainly because the more sandbox type of games gave you allot of freedom.

Commonly speaking I do agree cause I do know the majority for some reason think that being FIRST truly means something in a MMORPG today, it use to mean allot more as it meant you had gone thru so much content AND > GRIND that being first really meant something.  Today's games make it so easy to cap lvl that you don't even have to do all content to be "first".

3. Nothing more to add then TOTALLY agree!

4. Mixed agree and disagree. I don't feel in a MMORPG 1 player should be able to do everything. These day's I can craft/heal/combat, I know the masses want this as they don't want to depent to much on others. Things should be hard to accomplisch. Wanna be a crafter then simply be prepared to make 10000xobject X to become better, don't want to do that, great in a sandbox game you got choice, the option to not do it, instead choose something you do like. Okay combat, well you want to wield that Great Sword of Übberness, then be prepared to make ALLOT of swings with different swords before you are able to wield that Great Sword of Übberness.

You might not like this and I am sure it's pretty niche, but it is the way I thought this genre involved more into and by evolving I do not mean become more and more just online combat games. But just more polished, less buggs, great graphics, yet certain themepark elements and also FFA Full Loot aslong it's a option players are able to controle as Sandbox games are about choice or atleast SHOULD be, nothing should be forced, but everything should feel natural.

  Hrimnir

Elite Member

Joined: 5/24/10
Posts: 1141

8/09/12 4:54:58 PM#126
Originally posted by Taonite
Originally posted by Turkish4676
Originally posted by Kyleran

Well written article and I can agree with the major points, that SWG helped put nails in the sandbox coffin...

 

 

I think you missed the point. SWG was the first to really offer sandbox, and the developers put the nails in the games coffin by changing that. SWG was the first major mmo that had player based weapons, armor, housing, buildings, equipment etc. etc. The game allowed players to decide what type of character they were going to be with a mixed class point delegation system. You could change allegances, change class build, build player cities, free to roam anywhere in any zone including space. (although this came after the great ruining and I mean the first ruining of the game not NGE) I have not touched on several of the games better points but in no means did SWG put the nail in the sand box's coffin.

SWG at launch and for a few months was the essence of sand box and sadly what was not touched on, and I have never seen touched, was its utter failure to launch. My friends and I had been waiting for its launch since we saw its announcement at E3 98 or 99. (can't remember which) They never had a commercial, game magazine ad, announcement releases, websites, announced betas, etc. When it came out none of us ever knew. I chanced upon it one Friday evening after work, and had to call 20+ people to let them know. It just showed up to the store unannounced. After a couple of months playing I ran into gamers that had no idea it even existed. So essentially the game was killed before it ever launched.(secretly)

By no means was it the nails, at one point it was a great game, just never given a proper chance. And some other poster stated that it was bleeding subs before NGE, duh like I stated previously, the game was ruined when they did the Combat Upgrade. CU was the answer to all the whiney lazy players that flood our games today. Pistoleers who only had to do one set of bars were as powerful as classes that had to do three full masteries.

Turkish is saying something I've been saying for years. SOE/LA never - NEVER - formally advertised SWG. Perhaps a snippet commercial LONG ago, somewhere that was forgotten, but much less than the way games are advertised these days (superhype).

Many talks between friends in-game were had on how we could make our own commercials or get the word out ourselves. This was a couple years before youtube. Now you see youtube movies about SWG everywhere. SWG PvP, SWG space battles, SWG crafting/decorating, SWGLetsPlay tutorials, SWG closure farewells.

Yes, the original game, the pre-CU game, the Raph Koster designed game that had a vision for what was a massive real life immersion in the video realm... that game made you wonder, made you design, made you THINK, made you LIVE the game. Sometimes to its own detriment - terrain negotiation, item decay, battle fatigue.

The CU and NGE were the WoW-population-and-subscription-chasing-abominations, I can agree to that in their inceptions/implementations, but post-NGE (SWG post 2009) was by far the better game all around. Combat was fairly balanced, crafting was still FAR superior to anything out there even now, and the community and economy that the community created was second to none.

All in all it was the advertising. WoW never stopped advertising, even after they reached 2mil, 3mil, 5mil subs, the advertising still came on strong. If it wasn't Mr. T telling you he was a night-elf-mohawk, it was Chuck Norris and his battle cat puttin' the smack-down on some Orcs. Those commercials ran on numerous channels, multiple times, day and night. THAT is was made WoW a household name. Just because it was a spin-off of Blizzard's Warcraft, only meant that the minor (or more "secret") gaming population knew about it, otherwise the game meant nothing to the population that plays/knows about it now. It was pure advertising and being in the right place at the right time.

So you (we - my friends and I in-game) would have thought that during all that time, with all of the Star Wars movies on Spike TV being re-run month after month, year after year, they would have thrown out at least one simple ad for SWG to say "Hey, we're here and still going strong!" wouldn't have broke the bank, but actually brought in new subs... instead they took the beating like a boss, and faded away due to sneaky management and underhanded attorneys and CEOs after a pipe-dream-payday.

 

I'm sorry but i couldn't disgree more.  The advertising certainly helped, but it wasn't the major factor.  What made WOW able to acheive those levels of subs was by opening up the MMO genre to a broader market of gamers.  Prior to wow there were somewhere between 1.2 and 1.8 million MMO players between UO, EQ, and AO, DAOC came in and added a few as well.  WOW came out and made the game accessible.  They made sure that the graphics weren't so intense so it would run on a broad range of computers.  They dumbed everything down so it was easy to see quests and such, easy to do, easy to play, and far quicker to get through than previous MMO's.  Because of this it attracted a crapton of new players.  The advertising didnt start until well after the game had 3+ million subs.

"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

- Friedrich Nietzsche

  User Deleted
8/09/12 5:57:03 PM#127
Eve Online. Best sandbox spaceship MMO ever created by Icelandmankind. Good thing those devs played Ultima Online because they learned a LOT about what makes a good sandbox MMO.  Speaking of UO, I wish it could be released again with the 2D graphics....
  madazz

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/07/03
Posts: 1312

8/09/12 6:06:30 PM#128
Well I am glad someone agrees with what I have been saying on these forums for months. Great minds think a like!
  IMPYRE

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/04
Posts: 2961

A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?

8/09/12 8:40:57 PM#129
Originally posted by Ozmodan
Originally posted by P4YB4CK
Originally posted by jusomdude
I didn't know The Repopulation was gonna be FFA-PvP. If so it's an automatic write off.

 

Here you go buddy, the right information directly from their website. If you remember SWG, it's pretty much the same style of PVP.

PVP - The Repopulation

As mentioned previously we plan to support two rule sets in The Repopulation. The normal rule set in the Repopulation encourages PvP but does not force it. Where the hardcore server will focus on a more Free For All style. We’ll focus most of the explanation in this section on the normal rule set.

All players will begin their adventure as an Inactive member of the OWON or FPR military. Being inactive means that they will not be able to attack or be attacked by other players in protected areas. They will be subject to attack, and able to attack opposing players when they enter into contested areas, however. Players can elect to join the Active Military at any time. Active Military can be attack or be attacked other Active Military members anywhere in the world. They can not attack Inactive Military in the protected areas, however. Guards will aid friendly players in both protected and unprotected areas.

A common question by players is what will be protected and what will not? Areas near your starting cities are fully protected. OWON and FPR civilizations are located quite far from one another. The middle areas between the two are largely unprotected, with the exception of Rogue Nation cities. You can find the full complement of tiers and difficulty levels in both protected and unprotected regions.
If a player wished to completely avoid PvP they would be able to. That having been said, we want to encourage players to participate in the PvP aspects of the game. There is very little penalty for doing so, and it can be a rewarding experience.

Nations can build cities and cities can be sieged and conquered. It is an open world experience with objectives created through engagements. Players will be automatically rewarded for their participation. You gain military rank through your participation, which can open up new rewards and abilities.

The point being all the good stuff is in the contested areas.  Even crafters need things from those areas.  So you either have to pvp or spend a lot to get those items.  It always ends up in games like this that a big guild will control specific resources, hence you will be stuck buying at their prices.  Not my idea of a very good game.  You contention that pvp is optional does not meet my definition of optional.

 

I'm just stating, your calling Repopulation a Free For All - Player vs Player game, in which you still have a choice of which type of Server Rules you will play on.

Besides that, here is a link for folks interested in 'PvP' Sandbox terms straight from this website as well. It seems everyone defines 'Sandbox' differently.

http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/6117

 

 

  kol56

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/12
Posts: 130

8/09/12 9:09:48 PM#130

GW2 isn't a hybrid.

It's the ultimate evolution of the themepark formula.

 

The game still lacks tools for player made content, there are none, and it lacks the depth of a player based economy with a complex crafting.

Once you finish all the content, there's nothing left but E-sport PVP, "casual" (in a good way, but with little long term playability) PVP (WwW), repeating content for cosmetics and waiting for new content / xpac.

 

The Repopulation and ArcheAge are hybrids, GW2 is the best themepark ever made.

And it's not going to be enough for those bored of themeparks.

People aren't really bored of the gear grind, they are bored of running out of content, replacing gear with cosmetics won't change a damn thing.

"Dogs are the leaders of the planet. If you see two life forms, one of them's making a poop, the other one's carrying it for him, who would you assume is in charge."

"The idea behind the tuxedo is the woman's point of view that men are all the same; so we might as well dress them that way. That's why a wedding is like the joining together of a beautiful, glowing bride and some guy"
-Seinfeld

  Dreamion

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/13/07
Posts: 282

8/09/12 10:22:05 PM#131

Great writeup! The MMO's I would like to see remakes of would be SWG and Vanguard, literally because if they were to be released NOW they would probably be a huge hit.

 

SWG - You could do ALOT, 32? professions, skill tree'd, flying your own spaceship, housing, guild city, industry etc. (BIG world)

 

Vanguard - 3 Sphere leveling system, LOADS of dungeons + (puzzles), Group based gameplay, advanced crafting, BIG world.

 

These are things I've missed.

 
  Pelagato

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 4/10/07
Posts: 655

Beware of Felidae on the hunt.

8/09/12 10:43:57 PM#132

OMG!!! Bunch of comments!!! Why do you guys bother wrtting long comments, do you guys think that people will actually read them all?????


  IMPYRE

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/04
Posts: 2961

A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?

8/09/12 11:00:55 PM#133
Originally posted by kol56

GW2 isn't a hybrid.

It's the ultimate evolution of the themepark formula.

 

The game still lacks tools for player made content, there are none, and it lacks the depth of a player based economy with a complex crafting.

Once you finish all the content, there's nothing left but E-sport PVP, "casual" (in a good way, but with little long term playability) PVP (WwW), repeating content for cosmetics and waiting for new content / xpac.

 

The Repopulation and ArcheAge are hybrids, GW2 is the best themepark ever made.

 

Honestly, GW2 isn't even out and your calling it the best themepark ever made, I like your over confidence, but GW2 will only be the best themepark for the players that like that style of mmo. So to say ever made is a bold statement on your behalf. I raise your statement and say that GW2 will not have a mature community of players unless your playing with a guild. You watch what type of community this game will develop with its B2P crowd. (Now I am guessing and hopefully I am wrong). But I got my money on immaturity easily. <imo>

  RelGn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/05
Posts: 515

8/10/12 8:21:03 AM#134
Archeage is Da Game

  GrumpyMel2

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/24/09
Posts: 1824

8/10/12 11:25:25 AM#135
Originally posted by Hrimnir
Originally posted by Taonite
Originally posted by Turkish4676
Originally posted by Kyleran

Well written article and I can agree with the major points, that SWG helped put nails in the sandbox coffin...

 

 

I think you missed the point. SWG was the first to really offer sandbox, and the developers put the nails in the games coffin by changing that. SWG was the first major mmo that had player based weapons, armor, housing, buildings, equipment etc. etc. The game allowed players to decide what type of character they were going to be with a mixed class point delegation system. You could change allegances, change class build, build player cities, free to roam anywhere in any zone including space. (although this came after the great ruining and I mean the first ruining of the game not NGE) I have not touched on several of the games better points but in no means did SWG put the nail in the sand box's coffin.

SWG at launch and for a few months was the essence of sand box and sadly what was not touched on, and I have never seen touched, was its utter failure to launch. My friends and I had been waiting for its launch since we saw its announcement at E3 98 or 99. (can't remember which) They never had a commercial, game magazine ad, announcement releases, websites, announced betas, etc. When it came out none of us ever knew. I chanced upon it one Friday evening after work, and had to call 20+ people to let them know. It just showed up to the store unannounced. After a couple of months playing I ran into gamers that had no idea it even existed. So essentially the game was killed before it ever launched.(secretly)

By no means was it the nails, at one point it was a great game, just never given a proper chance. And some other poster stated that it was bleeding subs before NGE, duh like I stated previously, the game was ruined when they did the Combat Upgrade. CU was the answer to all the whiney lazy players that flood our games today. Pistoleers who only had to do one set of bars were as powerful as classes that had to do three full masteries.

Turkish is saying something I've been saying for years. SOE/LA never - NEVER - formally advertised SWG. Perhaps a snippet commercial LONG ago, somewhere that was forgotten, but much less than the way games are advertised these days (superhype).

Many talks between friends in-game were had on how we could make our own commercials or get the word out ourselves. This was a couple years before youtube. Now you see youtube movies about SWG everywhere. SWG PvP, SWG space battles, SWG crafting/decorating, SWGLetsPlay tutorials, SWG closure farewells.

Yes, the original game, the pre-CU game, the Raph Koster designed game that had a vision for what was a massive real life immersion in the video realm... that game made you wonder, made you design, made you THINK, made you LIVE the game. Sometimes to its own detriment - terrain negotiation, item decay, battle fatigue.

The CU and NGE were the WoW-population-and-subscription-chasing-abominations, I can agree to that in their inceptions/implementations, but post-NGE (SWG post 2009) was by far the better game all around. Combat was fairly balanced, crafting was still FAR superior to anything out there even now, and the community and economy that the community created was second to none.

All in all it was the advertising. WoW never stopped advertising, even after they reached 2mil, 3mil, 5mil subs, the advertising still came on strong. If it wasn't Mr. T telling you he was a night-elf-mohawk, it was Chuck Norris and his battle cat puttin' the smack-down on some Orcs. Those commercials ran on numerous channels, multiple times, day and night. THAT is was made WoW a household name. Just because it was a spin-off of Blizzard's Warcraft, only meant that the minor (or more "secret") gaming population knew about it, otherwise the game meant nothing to the population that plays/knows about it now. It was pure advertising and being in the right place at the right time.

So you (we - my friends and I in-game) would have thought that during all that time, with all of the Star Wars movies on Spike TV being re-run month after month, year after year, they would have thrown out at least one simple ad for SWG to say "Hey, we're here and still going strong!" wouldn't have broke the bank, but actually brought in new subs... instead they took the beating like a boss, and faded away due to sneaky management and underhanded attorneys and CEOs after a pipe-dream-payday.

 

I'm sorry but i couldn't disgree more.  The advertising certainly helped, but it wasn't the major factor.  What made WOW able to acheive those levels of subs was by opening up the MMO genre to a broader market of gamers.  Prior to wow there were somewhere between 1.2 and 1.8 million MMO players between UO, EQ, and AO, DAOC came in and added a few as well.  WOW came out and made the game accessible.  They made sure that the graphics weren't so intense so it would run on a broad range of computers.  They dumbed everything down so it was easy to see quests and such, easy to do, easy to play, and far quicker to get through than previous MMO's.  Because of this it attracted a crapton of new players.  The advertising didnt start until well after the game had 3+ million subs.

 

One thing to understand about WOW when compared to earlier games and also todays games when compared to both WOW and earlier games is that the size of the potential market was dictated by factors ENTIRELY EXTERNAL to the games themselves. When you look at the number of households with computers and the number of individuals with reliable internet access both US and World-Wide those numbers absolutely EXPLODED between the late 90's and today.

WOW really was in the right place in the right time, in large part not actualy due to anything WoW did but to external factors as well. You can't very well play an online game if you don't have access to a computer and don't have access to the internet.... and those numbers absolutely exploded during the period we are talking about. Alot of commentators/pundits seem to overlook that simple external reality. When WOW hit...there were not just alot more people with an interest in MMO's but alot more people with the CAPABILITY to play online games (because they didn't have access to a computer or the internet prior). It also didn't have very much in the way of competition when it was released. This is not to take anything away from WOW,  Blizzard did make and accessable, entertaining and solid product with WOW. I played vanilla WOW for about a year and a half...and I have nothing bad to say about my time there. The game was good, entertaining, cohesive and fit well it's audiences expectations. That said a good part of the crest WOW rode, had nothing to do with the qualities of the game itself.

When we do comparisons between todays releases and past games, we have to keep in mind limitations on the size of the potential market that are entirely external to the products themselves (e.g. access to a computer and the internet). 100K subs back in 1997 really is more like $1 million+ subs today....when you start considering not just how many people chose to play the game....but how many people even had the CAPABILITY to play an online game, period.

  gilgamesh9

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/10
Posts: 137

8/10/12 2:59:03 PM#136
SWG bombed because it wasn't Star Wars, it was a crafting sim (Ultima Online 2) pretending to be Star Wars.  This was Koster's big mistake in thinking that just slapping a Star Wars veneer over his scuttled UO plans, everything would work out.  It didn't.  Square peg met round hole.   If it had remained UO2, or even created as a fresh IP where having crafting dominate was not out of place, it would have done far better.
  ignore_me

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

8/10/12 3:02:29 PM#137
Originally posted by gilgamesh9
SWG bombed because it wasn't Star Wars, it was a crafting sim (Ultima Online 2) pretending to be Star Wars.  This was Koster's big mistake in thinking that just slapping a Star Wars veneer over his scuttled UO plans, everything would work out.  It didn't.  Square peg met round hole.   If it had remained UO2, or even created as a fresh IP where having crafting dominate was not out of place, it would have done far better.

Somebody wasn't any good at crafting I think ...

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

8/10/12 3:17:27 PM#138

Good article, and I agree.

The biggest problem themeparks have is that they are not very sel-sustaining.  Themeparks, like a book or a movie, can be "consumed" by the player, and then they are basically done.  This just does not work well with an MMORPG that is supposed to be played for years and years.

Sandboxes, on the other hand, are typically more self-sustaining.  Much like a lego-kit or a box of crayons, a sandbox game can be played for years and years and never get old.  Minecraft is like this...the game is basically built as a "framework" that lets people do whatever they want in it, and many players keep themselves amused for months and months finding new things to do in the game.

At the end of the day, devs have got to realize that they will never be able to put out enough static content to keep up with player consumption...the only real solution is to make content that sustains itself.

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

8/10/12 3:21:44 PM#139
Originally posted by ignore_me
Originally posted by gilgamesh9
SWG bombed because it wasn't Star Wars, it was a crafting sim (Ultima Online 2) pretending to be Star Wars.  This was Koster's big mistake in thinking that just slapping a Star Wars veneer over his scuttled UO plans, everything would work out.  It didn't.  Square peg met round hole.   If it had remained UO2, or even created as a fresh IP where having crafting dominate was not out of place, it would have done far better.

Somebody wasn't any good at crafting I think ...

 Tell you the truth, I can see where gilgamesh is coming from here...

I was SUPER pysched for SWG, but when I played the beta, I decided not to buy the game.  It just....wasn't that exciting.

The combat was incredibly dull...I hated watching my guy stand in place and go "pew pew pew" while I just watched.  I can even remember when SOE said that they made combat more exciting by having your character shoot three times instead of once on each auto-attack...I kind of LOL'd internally at this.

Also, the world felt VERY barren.  I remember I wanted to go from one city to another...I literally just left auto-run on and then ate lunch and I think I still wasn't there when I came back.

I love sandboxes, don't get me wrong...but I want a sandbox with exciting combat, and a world that is exciting to explore.  I don't really see these as "themepark" elements...I just see them as things that sandbox games unfortunately tend to fall short on.

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  MumboJumbo

Elite Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 3204

Veni, Vidi, Converti

8/11/12 12:48:05 PM#140

After a crash, is a good time for small risks to possibly give rise to a new approach?

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