Originally posted by Creslin321

Here's something interesting that a lot of people usually seem to neglect in these arguments.

In the fantasy genre, really anything can be acceptable.  You can create a whimsical world with giant pink bunnies, or a serious world with gritty political deception.

BUT, in an INDIVIDUAL FANTASY WORLD, anything does NOT go.  It is absolutely imperative that any fantasy world remains internally consistent.  For example, there should definitely not be a giant pink bunny in the world of A Song of Ice and Fire.  BUT there can be a giant pink bunny in a kawaii anime fantasy.

So what you can't really make a general statement that fluff items are ridiculous...instead you need to ask if the fluff item in question breaks the internal consistency of the world it is in.

And honestly, if we're talking about WoW here...this is a world with drunken panda kung-fu masters...I don't really think a big bunny rabbit is too out of place there :).

Yeah, pretty much sums up the reality of it. Good post.

Originally posted by WhiteLantern

Its a unicorn-cat...thing, with a throne for a saddle. What's not to love?

These are the kind of things that make fantasy games......fantasy. No immersion breaking for me here.

I dunno, if a unicat suddenly showed up in the fantasy book I was reading I would throw the book away without reading more of it.

It is all part of fantasy but one can wonder why all fantasy MMOs seems to be so much Pratchett and so little Martin & Howard.

I think we need some cute fantasy games with silly stuff but we also need some darker and more serious ones.  And while a really small numbers of the later excist I think we need more of that.

Unicats are fine in Wow but have nothing to do in games like AoC, it all have to do with the gameworlds. But frankly have 99% a watered down version of the Forgotten realms so we do need more variation in the game worlds as well as in the games mechanics.

rofl.. 

Fantasy is fantasy. I urge you to read the definition of fantasy. It's all about your imagination. If you have a simple mind, and aren't open to what fantasy really is; no you aren't going to like it. A big ass pink bunny doesn't exist in the real world does it, no; that makes it a fantasy creation. 

Originally posted by ItsGopher

rofl.. 

 

Fantasy is fantasy. I urge you to read the definition of fantasy. It's all about your imagination. If you have a simple mind, and aren't open to what fantasy really is; no you aren't going to like it. A big ass pink bunny doesn't exist in the real world does it, no; that makes it a fantasy creation. 

You didn't actually read any of the thread before you 'rofled' and posted, did you?

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by WhiteLantern

Its a unicorn-cat...thing, with a throne for a saddle. What's not to love?

These are the kind of things that make fantasy games......fantasy. No immersion breaking for me here.

I dunno, if a unicat suddenly showed up in the fantasy book I was reading I would throw the book away without reading more of it.

It is all part of fantasy but one can wonder why all fantasy MMOs seems to be so much Pratchett and so little Martin & Howard.

I think we need some cute fantasy games with silly stuff but we also need some darker and more serious ones.  And while a really small numbers of the later excist I think we need more of that.

Unicats are fine in Wow but have nothing to do in games like AoC, it all have to do with the gameworlds. But frankly have 99% a watered down version of the Forgotten realms so we do need more variation in the game worlds as well as in the games mechanics.

Loke, i never thought this day would come, but i agree 100% with your post hahahaha. What is this world coming to.

Originally posted by fenistil

Originally posted by Creslin321

Here's something interesting that a lot of people usually seem to neglect in these arguments.

In the fantasy genre, really anything can be acceptable.  You can create a whimsical world with giant pink bunnies, or a serious world with gritty political deception.

BUT, in an INDIVIDUAL FANTASY WORLD, anything does NOT go.  It is absolutely imperative that any fantasy world remains internally consistent.  For example, there should definitely not be a giant pink bunny in the world of A Song of Ice and Fire.  BUT there can be a giant pink bunny in a kawaii anime fantasy.

So what you can't really make a general statement that fluff items are ridiculous...instead you need to ask if the fluff item in question breaks the internal consistency of the world it is in.

And honestly, if we're talking about WoW here...this is a world with drunken panda kung-fu masters...I don't really think a big bunny rabbit is too out of place there :).

This.

 

So basically it DEPENDS on a game. 

Pink rabbit in some game is not bad.

What IS bad is that almost ALL of games starts to have idiotic inconsitant to game world shit like this.

Yep, worst part is you can blame Blizzard for doing that with WOW.  As far as i know in the original lineage and lineage 2 you never got that absurd out of character for the game stuff going on.  It only happened later.

Originally posted by ItsGopher

rofl.. 

 

Fantasy is fantasy. I urge you to read the definition of fantasy. It's all about your imagination. If you have a simple mind, and aren't open to what fantasy really is; no you aren't going to like it. A big ass pink bunny doesn't exist in the real world does it, no; that makes it a fantasy creation. 

 

 

So sticking Stormtroopers from Star Wars that ride around on 100ft tall pink dildos whilst screaming "USA USA USA!!" over and over again. Or having Marilyn Monroe as a major character, would work brilliantly in Tolkien's Middle Earth setting?

As the poster mentioned earlier, fantasy can be anything, but once you have established a world/setting then no, not everything goes without breaking the immersion of that specific world.

Well i do agree it has nothing to do with immersion at all,i do tend to like stuff liek that lol.

You see things like this mount for example is more for self satisfaction,we all know how much females love Unicorns and kitties,so it is a great idea.

Yes it would be nice if a developer actually THOUGHT out their game BEFORE they made it ,to include such things in their Lore,but alas game design of late has been quick mode automated.It really doesn't take a whole lot of effort to include it in their Lore to keep everyone happy.

Originally posted by bunnyhopper

Originally posted by ItsGopher

rofl.. 

 

Fantasy is fantasy. I urge you to read the definition of fantasy. It's all about your imagination. If you have a simple mind, and aren't open to what fantasy really is; no you aren't going to like it. A big ass pink bunny doesn't exist in the real world does it, no; that makes it a fantasy creation. 

 

 

So sticking Stormtroopers from Star Wars that ride around on 100ft tall pink dildos whilst screaming "USA USA USA!!" over and over again. Or having Marilyn Monroe as a major character, would work brilliantly in Tolkien's Middle Earth setting?

 

As the poster mentioned earlier, fantasy can be anything, but once you have established a world/setting then no, not everything goes without breaking the immersion of that specific world.

That's what I was trying to get at. Apparently I am one of the only one's who doesn't enjoy overy ridiculous fluff-items in their fantasy MMOs.

OP because fluffy rabbits and unicorn huge cats are so much easier to make than badass horses. Those silly things will catch your eyes so easily without any effort from the designer, when a nice horse might need some particle effects, high poly counts, and stuff the game cannot afford technically. In a movie or a book describing the unicorn cat would be so silly and ridiculously out of place, and putting a horse full of details wouln'td take anything and give much, but well in a mmo that's the contrary, it's cheap to make a silly rabit mount and have some visual effect, which is probably enough. Also the game with those stuff are probably targeting kids that just come into teenager age, they still need little panda and stuff in their virtual beds, nothing wrong about it.

personally I'd never play a game with pink pegasi sporting heart shaped wings at all. its too weird. never liked stuff like alice in wonderland or similar stories with schitzo logic. even when I was a kid.

but if there was a pegasus that looked like a normal horse with realistic wings fine. I'd prefer a gryphon, but a pegasus is fine, as long as it fit the lore.

if there was a unicorn mount in asoiaf online thats also okay. there have been mentions of unicorns in the series. as long as they don't have horns banded in the colours of the rainbow and have heart shaped markings and pink fur.

Originally posted by Razeekster

Originally posted by bunnyhopper

Originally posted by ItsGopher

rofl.. 

 

Fantasy is fantasy. I urge you to read the definition of fantasy. It's all about your imagination. If you have a simple mind, and aren't open to what fantasy really is; no you aren't going to like it. A big ass pink bunny doesn't exist in the real world does it, no; that makes it a fantasy creation. 

 

 

So sticking Stormtroopers from Star Wars that ride around on 100ft tall pink dildos whilst screaming "USA USA USA!!" over and over again. Or having Marilyn Monroe as a major character, would work brilliantly in Tolkien's Middle Earth setting?

 

As the poster mentioned earlier, fantasy can be anything, but once you have established a world/setting then no, not everything goes without breaking the immersion of that specific world.

That's what I was trying to get at. Apparently I am one of the only one's who doesn't enjoy overy ridiculous fluff-items in their fantasy MMOs.

It is not really that you are the only one that does or doesn't enjoy it, but that as the name implies fluff items are ment to be items in the game that can be used for either lightening the mood of the game itself, or which the players use for some humorous enterainment in the game. I mean fluff as a noun does basically mean somethign which is light, soft, and fuzzy by nature of what it is, as such fluff items as shown fall straight into that definition. I mean you have vanity items which to me atleast would fall more to where they should fallow the lore and design of the setting, but fluff items are ment to items that are used for humor an being largely ridiculous just by virtue of what being fluff actually means (light, fluffy, and whimsical.).

Really i think in way you really can not have a fluff item in a game if it really honestly is designed to fit the lore and such fo the set as part of being fluff is to be somethign that stands out from the rest of the items. Where as vanity items are more about somethign that is solely designed for appeance an uniqueness in the game, as such the item would need to be much more build around fitting the setting as it is not there to stand out like fluff items are. This is kinda why in many games you have that divide which splits items between ones that are fluff items (whimsical mounts, weapons, and such that have no other value, or effect then just being over the top odd-ball items in the setting.), while then you have vanity items which are more almost items ment to display affinities for certain styles in the game, or as rewards for specific content that has ben done.). Also how can you really define if a fluff item is too whimsical or out-landish, when that is kinda the point of the item being fluff really.

Another this is that  this thread basically largely boils down to being about immersion in a setting versus entertainment thru noon immersion items or events. Which is kinda not going to go over well since many people play mmos an other games for entertainment as such you need to have alot of varying styles of entertainement for the masses of players that play, as such you will have some people that play which like that fluff an whimsical enjoyment of playing or using fluf items in the game.Neither side is really right as both are playing for fun, but tthe issue is that both sides will sacrifice some enjoyment of the game for the otherside to gain some enjoyment for themselves. Such as people that like fluf items destroying immerson for players that actually want to be immersed in the setting, while the reverse is true as well that players wanting to be fully immersed will make those seeking a more light-hearted fee an time playing find it much less reducing their enjoyment of the game as well. I am not sure you could ever fully balance out the ratio of being immersed in the game setting, an having fluff items that still allow for more humor an light-hearted entertainement in game settings, since you will always have those players that are either going to be purest wanting just items or content that fit the setting, and people that just want to have items which allow them to enjoy the game in their prefered method regardless of setting.

Originally posted by Asuran24

Originally posted by Razeekster

Originally posted by bunnyhopper

Originally posted by ItsGopher

rofl.. 

 

Fantasy is fantasy. I urge you to read the definition of fantasy. It's all about your imagination. If you have a simple mind, and aren't open to what fantasy really is; no you aren't going to like it. A big ass pink bunny doesn't exist in the real world does it, no; that makes it a fantasy creation. 

 

 

So sticking Stormtroopers from Star Wars that ride around on 100ft tall pink dildos whilst screaming "USA USA USA!!" over and over again. Or having Marilyn Monroe as a major character, would work brilliantly in Tolkien's Middle Earth setting?

 

As the poster mentioned earlier, fantasy can be anything, but once you have established a world/setting then no, not everything goes without breaking the immersion of that specific world.

That's what I was trying to get at. Apparently I am one of the only one's who doesn't enjoy overy ridiculous fluff-items in their fantasy MMOs.

It is not really that you are the only one that does or doesn't enjoy it, but that as the name implies fluff items are ment to be items in the game that can be used for either lightening the mood of the game itself, or which the players use for some humorous enterainment in the game. I mean fluff as a noun does basically mean somethign which is light, soft, and fuzzy by nature of what it is, as such fluff items as shown fall straight into that definition. I mean you have vanity items which to me atleast would fall more to where they should fallow the lore and design of the setting, but fluff items are ment to items that are used for humor an being largely ridiculous just by virtue of what being fluff actually means (light, fluffy, and whimsical.).

 

Really i think in way you really can not have a fluff item in a game if it really honestly is designed to fit the lore and such fo the set as part of being fluff is to be somethign that stands out from the rest of the items. Where as vanity items are more about somethign that is solely designed for appeance an uniqueness in the game, as such the item would need to be much more build around fitting the setting as it is not there to stand out like fluff items are. This is kinda why in many games you have that divide which splits items between ones that are fluff items (whimsical mounts, weapons, and such that have no other value, or effect then just being over the top odd-ball items in the setting.), while then you have vanity items which are more almost items ment to display affinities for certain styles in the game, or as rewards for specific content that has ben done.). Also how can you really define if a fluff item is too whimsical or out-landish, when that is kinda the point of the item being fluff really.

To me fluff-items and vanity-items are the same thing in games so I sort of generalized the two as one. And outfits in MMOs rarely fit their setting if you buy them from the cash shop, which is unfortunate, but has for one reason or anotther become today's standard.

Originally posted by Razeekster

Originally posted by Asuran24

Originally posted by Razeekster

Originally posted by bunnyhopper

Originally posted by ItsGopher

rofl.. 

 

Fantasy is fantasy. I urge you to read the definition of fantasy. It's all about your imagination. If you have a simple mind, and aren't open to what fantasy really is; no you aren't going to like it. A big ass pink bunny doesn't exist in the real world does it, no; that makes it a fantasy creation. 

 

 

So sticking Stormtroopers from Star Wars that ride around on 100ft tall pink dildos whilst screaming "USA USA USA!!" over and over again. Or having Marilyn Monroe as a major character, would work brilliantly in Tolkien's Middle Earth setting?

 

As the poster mentioned earlier, fantasy can be anything, but once you have established a world/setting then no, not everything goes without breaking the immersion of that specific world.

That's what I was trying to get at. Apparently I am one of the only one's who doesn't enjoy overy ridiculous fluff-items in their fantasy MMOs.

It is not really that you are the only one that does or doesn't enjoy it, but that as the name implies fluff items are ment to be items in the game that can be used for either lightening the mood of the game itself, or which the players use for some humorous enterainment in the game. I mean fluff as a noun does basically mean somethign which is light, soft, and fuzzy by nature of what it is, as such fluff items as shown fall straight into that definition. I mean you have vanity items which to me atleast would fall more to where they should fallow the lore and design of the setting, but fluff items are ment to items that are used for humor an being largely ridiculous just by virtue of what being fluff actually means (light, fluffy, and whimsical.).

 

Really i think in way you really can not have a fluff item in a game if it really honestly is designed to fit the lore and such fo the set as part of being fluff is to be somethign that stands out from the rest of the items. Where as vanity items are more about somethign that is solely designed for appeance an uniqueness in the game, as such the item would need to be much more build around fitting the setting as it is not there to stand out like fluff items are. This is kinda why in many games you have that divide which splits items between ones that are fluff items (whimsical mounts, weapons, and such that have no other value, or effect then just being over the top odd-ball items in the setting.), while then you have vanity items which are more almost items ment to display affinities for certain styles in the game, or as rewards for specific content that has ben done.). Also how can you really define if a fluff item is too whimsical or out-landish, when that is kinda the point of the item being fluff really.

To me fluff-items and vanity-items are the same thing in games so I sort of generalized the two as one. And outfits in MMOs rarely fit their setting if you buy them from the cash shop, which is unfortunate, but has for one reason or anotther become today's standard.

yet generalizing is the down-fall here as fluff items and vanity items are not the same at all trully, since by definition one is used for one activity, and the other is more for another activity. Alot of the cash-shop items are fluff items with most of the true vanity items atleast for looks are in game (most of the rpers and such would complain like hell if they had to spend money to get that in the cs.), and so f course the best next item to sell is fluff items in teh cs an they actually have no harmful impact outside of ruining immersion which is not that big for most players. Though i would say that most settings in mmos the non-vanity items fit very well into the setting most of all in original settings like rift.

As long as it fits in with the theme of the game then so be it.

There's plenty of room for games that don't take themselves seriously and try to be whimsical and silly.

Originally posted by dave6660

As long as it fits in with the theme of the game then so be it.

There's plenty of room for games that don't take themselves seriously and try to be whimsical and silly.

I was talking about the games that it doesn't fit with the theme...