Originally posted by William12

Because you do ?  GW2 will be a good game, but it wont even touch wow numbers.  You know why MOP is coming out a month after GW2 ?  Because most people will be 80 and bored of GW2 by then.   The ones who stick around will enjoy pvp and wvwvw.   Having no monthly sub will help and hurt GW2 population.

Because it's done finally?   Sometimes the simplist explantion is the best.   It hit beta a long time ago.  And we're about where it should be on a development time-line...     So, yeah, it must be done...

Unless, of course, you're thinking that after losing 2 million subs the past two years Blizzard wants to release a half-baked product and shoot themselves in the foot?   Especially, after the AH mess up with Diablo that made it impossible for honest players to succeed and have left the economy in shambles?   Don't you think one massive black eye is enough for this year?

I can't say anything about this site, but there is something I did notice that is related and not manipulated.  GW2GURU forums routinely ran between 4,000 and 6,000 current users all day and night UNTIL they redesigned a few months ago.  Just before that it was breaking highest current number seemingly each week.  Immediately after the redesign the daily number dropped down to around 2k.  That became normal until the last couple of weeks.  That forum just hit a new high of 7360 current users last week and once again seems to stay above 4k around the clock (above 4300 currently). 

So, there may be something messed up here, but it's certainly possible that lots of people have been interested in the game but just waiting until it got closer to release to really dig in.  I've been reading comments for years on multiple forums and listening to people in games about how they'll probably play it.  I would guess many of those weren't actively researching and following development all that much.  What ANet has shown and let us play hasn't disuaded nearly as many players as others games have recently as launch approached.  I personally have played and/or tested several games over the last few years and all of them, sadly, had some major negatives right away.  I couldn't be more pleased with the hours I've had in GW2 already. 

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by Rohn

When this has happened in the past, I've reported it to the tech guys here.  They confirmed that there have been problems in the past which have allowed numbers to become grossly inflated.  This isn't the first time it's happened.

Yah, remember...except that was someone manipulating the ratings votes, wasn't it?

Hits on a hit meter?  Well, maybe if someone's getting paid by the clickthrough.  Seems pointless otherwise.

Both have been manipulated before - the ratings, and the hit counter.

Originally posted by Nilenya

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by toddze

Originally posted by Aerowyn

 

which it has just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not there.. but that's another discussion. I have been around MMOs since it all started and played every AAA release till now, I feel I have got a decent grasp of the types of games that will be in it for the long haul.

oh really? Being that you played every AAA game I question your experience in really knowing what keeps you in it for the "long haul", since you mmo hop around so frequent. So it would seem nothing keeps you in a game for the "long haul". But then again you and I may have different definition of "long haul"  

for me long haul is a game with enough to do and enough unique content that I will stick around for a good amount of time (6 months +). Obviously this is very subjective to each person but so far over the past 15+ years playing these types of games(and I guess longer if you include all the MUDs I used to play and host) I have seen what the majorty of people seem to enjoy and the trend that has happened over the years since wow. GW2 has what it takes to be the next big MMO like it or not it does.. this is something I have not said since warcraft.

we have the same perspective, and I completely agree with your observation. I also played every AA title since UO, and my longevity with EQ1 and wow was 4 and 5 yrs respectively. That did not stop me from trying these other games out as well. And based on my experiences and observations both with the reality of these various games and their retail reception and subscription retention - or lack thereoff, leads me to believe that GW2 will do very very well.

 

edit:

 

I also have not been really enthusiastic about a game since world of warcraft, and frankly I have not really purchased a mmo since swg, without telling myself the price had only to give me 30 days solid entertainment to not be a waste, thats how jaded I became early on. So saying gw2 will be a good thing for the industry, for us as gamers, is a rare thing for this jaded gamer.

I wholeheartedly agree:)

Originally posted by MosesZD

 

Unless, of course, you're thinking that after losing 2 million subs the past two years Blizzard wants to release a half-baked product and shoot themselves in the foot?   Especially, after the AH mess up with Diablo that made it impossible for honest players to succeed and have left the economy in shambles?   Don't you think one massive black eye is enough for this year?

the problem with being out of touch with the playerbase and no longer capable of delivering the kind of product people want to see is that it doesn't really matter how many black eyes you have.. you're incapable of dodging the blows at that point to avoid the bruises.

i'm not saying blizzard is in this situation though, i'm saying if they were.. it wouldn't be a matter of simply saying "oh we screwed up lets just not screw up anymore."

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by MosesZD

No.    I know that some people have made that argument. And, sadly, the meme has stuck. But the meme was a made by people who were being self-serving and deliberately mis-reporting what had happened in order to downgrade the success of GW1 in order to win a dishonest point in a debate by minimizing the accomplishments of GW1 over the past years.   

 

The financial statements indicate it was SEVEN MILLION ACCOUNTS, not seven million campaigns.  Each account being identified as a unique account holding individual.      They sold far more campaigns than 7 million.   If only because in 2008 they boxed all three and sold about 3 million compelte Guild Wars accounts.

 

http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/structure.aspx

Annnnd... bookmarked for future use.

 

Edit: Where are you getting total number of accounts?

They're in the financials until sometime in 2008 and then in the investor calls and earnings releases thereafter.   They do it for all their MMOs.   The formatting gets messed up, this is from December, 2008 (accounts are unique):

Guild Wars

U.S & Europe

(As of December, 2008)

Sept, 2006 Dec, 2006 Mar, 2007 Jun, 2007 Sept, 2007 Dec, 2007 Mar, 2008 Jun, 2008 Sept, 2008 Dec, 2008

# of Accounts activated 2 ,447,000 3 ,122,000 3 ,555,000 3 ,917,000 4 ,500,000 4 ,878,000 5 ,159,000 5 ,377,000 5 ,589,000 5 ,803,000

(I can't link it.  It's a PDF on my HDD.) 

Oh, and you'll need the Korean extensions to the PDF viewer.  

My problem is that I can't see the motivation. Why would someone increase hits? I think if Zooce never noticed it, 99% of people never would have given it a second look...

unless...

It was Zooce!

Originally posted by MosesZD

Originally posted by toddze

Originally posted by thekid1

 

Ehm..no fanboy here I haven't even played  the beta :(

 

I kept a reasonable eye on the frontpage popularity during SWTOR's release approach and it might have been somewhat more populair (although I think not) saying GW2 populairty doesn't hold a candle to SWTOR's is nonsense.

And you saying GW2 will fall into oblivion confirms you are spouting nonsense on a regular base. Guild Wars 1 was a very popular game, all signs ere there GW2 will be even more popular.

 

 

I dont see GW fan fairs all over the US. On the other hand I have seen countless SW fan fairs (not been to one). So again GW does not even in the same ball park as SW, When I say SW, I am not refering to tor, when I refer to TOR i will say TOR or SWTOR. So go re-read my post.

GW2 lacks meaningful end game content to keep people really playing the game period. I have been around this genre long enough to know what keeps people playing. Go enjoy your game but dont come back crying when boredom sets in, because it will.

 

But they don't, by-and-large all play MMOs, do they?   

 

GW1 sold 7 million copies to gamers.   Which include Star Wars geeks like me.   Which includes Star Trek geeks like me.  Which includes Dr. Who geeks like me.  Which includes Firefly (very short lived) geeks like me.  Which includes Battlestar Gallactica geeks like me.   And I'm talking since the 1970s on all those but Trek which was the 1960s... (Yeah, I'm 51... )

 

And so is my wife.   (Plus she likes Torchwood, but I don't.   The actor reminds of someone I went HS with and was a total ***hole.   Every time I see him, I want to punch him out).  But she doesn't game.   At all.  

 

See being a Trekkie, Whovian, etc., doesn't mean you'll exclude GW1 from gaming.   Conversely, liking those things doesn't mean you'll play the game, or any game.    

 

So the whole 'convention argument/fanbase argument' is rather suspect.   Especially seeing how many 'franchise' games crash, burned and died because fans know most of them are crappy ripoffs.

 

 

 

 

A most logical post sure to be ignored by all.

Originally posted by colddog04

My problem is that I can't see the motivation. Why would someone increase hits? I think if Zooce never noticed it, 99% of people never would have given it a second look...

 unless...

 It was Zooce!

Originally posted by MosesZD

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by MosesZD

No.    I know that some people have made that argument. And, sadly, the meme has stuck. But the meme was a made by people who were being self-serving and deliberately mis-reporting what had happened in order to downgrade the success of GW1 in order to win a dishonest point in a debate by minimizing the accomplishments of GW1 over the past years.   

 

The financial statements indicate it was SEVEN MILLION ACCOUNTS, not seven million campaigns.  Each account being identified as a unique account holding individual.      They sold far more campaigns than 7 million.   If only because in 2008 they boxed all three and sold about 3 million compelte Guild Wars accounts.

 

http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/structure.aspx

Annnnd... bookmarked for future use.

 

Edit: Where are you getting total number of accounts?

They're in the financials until sometime in 2008 and then in the investor calls and earnings releases thereafter.   They do it for all their MMOs.   The formatting gets messed up, this is from December, 2008 (accounts are unique):

 

 

Guild Wars

U.S & Europe

(As of December, 2008)

Sept, 2006 Dec, 2006 Mar, 2007 Jun, 2007 Sept, 2007 Dec, 2007 Mar, 2008 Jun, 2008 Sept, 2008 Dec, 2008

# of Accounts activated 2 ,447,000 3 ,122,000 3 ,555,000 3 ,917,000 4 ,500,000 4 ,878,000 5 ,159,000 5 ,377,000 5 ,589,000 5 ,803,000

 

(I can't link it.  It's a PDF on my HDD.) 

 

Oh, and you'll need the Korean extensions to the PDF viewer.  

Ah, I found it in the form of an excel spreadsheet found on their earnings report for 2008.

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by toddze

Originally posted by Aerowyn

 

which it has just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not there.. but that's another discussion. I have been around MMOs since it all started and played every AAA release till now, I feel I have got a decent grasp of the types of games that will be in it for the long haul.

oh really? Being that you played every AAA game I question your experience in really knowing what keeps you in it for the "long haul", since you mmo hop around so frequent. So it would seem nothing keeps you in a game for the "long haul". But then again you and I may have different definition of "long haul"  

for me long haul is a game with enough to do and enough unique content that I will stick around for a good amount of time (6 months +). Obviously this is very subjective to each person but so far over the past 15+ years playing these types of games(and I guess longer if you include all the MUDs I used to play and host) I have seen what the majorty of people seem to enjoy and the trend that has happened over the years since wow. GW2 has what it takes to be the next big MMO like it or not it does.. this is something I have not said since warcraft.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree, Because I do not see GWII haveing the content, and the right type of content to sustain consant play. I think after 90 days its going to fizzle out.

Dont worry Ill be around to eat my words if I am wrong, I had to eat some of them on TSW, I thought its launch would be a typical funcom launch, I was wrong, first time in a long time. I dont think I am wrong here with GWII. I think its a good game, it just cant sustain it imo. 

Originally posted by toddze

 

You have the advatage to see that TOR turned out to be gatbage, I knew TOR was going to be garbage well before launch, and I posted it. I took a beating for it. Kind of like I am taking a beating now, for my GWII remarks, but like tor, I will be laughing last on GWII, saying "I told you so" .

The good thing about GWII is it wont leave a bitter taste in your mouth because of subs. people will constanlty play and quit off and on, like they did in GW1. Come back play awhile see whats new and go play another game.

Have to say I agree 100%.  TOR being a failure well before launch was blatantly obvious, although I did not post it.  GW2 going the same way, ie offering a short term play experience only is also blatantly obvious, although I am also not going to bother posting about it.  I am just not into pissing contests, and "they" just do not want to hear it.  Also it is not hard to justify a one off $60 spend for this short term experience - as you said this is the best part of GW2.

BTW, I am not criticising you for posting this, by all means keep posting, just don't expect them to thank you for it, even when the whining starts.

Originally posted by toddze

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by toddze

Originally posted by Aerowyn

 

which it has just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not there.. but that's another discussion. I have been around MMOs since it all started and played every AAA release till now, I feel I have got a decent grasp of the types of games that will be in it for the long haul.

oh really? Being that you played every AAA game I question your experience in really knowing what keeps you in it for the "long haul", since you mmo hop around so frequent. So it would seem nothing keeps you in a game for the "long haul". But then again you and I may have different definition of "long haul"  

for me long haul is a game with enough to do and enough unique content that I will stick around for a good amount of time (6 months +). Obviously this is very subjective to each person but so far over the past 15+ years playing these types of games(and I guess longer if you include all the MUDs I used to play and host) I have seen what the majorty of people seem to enjoy and the trend that has happened over the years since wow. GW2 has what it takes to be the next big MMO like it or not it does.. this is something I have not said since warcraft.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree, Because I do not see GWII haveing the content, and the right type of content to sustain consant play. I think after 90 days its going to fizzle out.

Dont worry Ill be around to eat my words if I am wrong, I had to eat some of them on TSW, I thought its launch would be a typical funcom launch, I was wrong, first time in a long time. I dont think I am wrong here with GWII. I think its a good game, it just cant sustain it imo. 

ill see you in a 91 days post release then with a bag of crow if you like:)

Originally posted by MosesZD

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by MosesZD

Originally posted by toddze

Originally posted by thekid1

 

Look at the front page..

90% of the thread activity is in GW2 forums.

 

I never seen anything like that before, not with Vanguard, Conan, WAR or Star wars TOR.

GWII doesnt even hold a candle to how popular SWTOR was in november, early december. In general Star Wars fan base is massive. GW is a nich group compared to that. Doesnt matter though both games are woefully dreadfull in their own ways. It just so happens the mmo flavor of the next cople months is GWII, it will fall into MMO oblivion in due time and join TOR.

 

GW1 sold 7 million copies.   It built a massive fan base.   Plus so many people are so **** sick and tired of WoW and the WoW clones...   

 

I think it will easily pass SWTOR's box sales in a year.   It will keep players longer because the game isn't nearly as shallow in so many important domains, hence they will be more involved with the game and less likely to quit.

7 mil is all expansions so individual players would be a good bit less but either way GW1 does have a large fan base and a lot of new comers will try out GW2 because of its b2p appeal not to mention MMO veterans as well. But what I think is going to suprise many people is the lasting appeal of a game like this.

No.    I know that some people have made that argument. And, sadly, the meme has stuck. But the meme was a made by people who were being self-serving and deliberately mis-reporting what had happened in order to downgrade the success of GW1 in order to win a dishonest point in a debate by minimizing the accomplishments of GW1 over the past years.   

 

The financial statements indicate it was SEVEN MILLION ACCOUNTS, not seven million campaigns.  Each account being identified as a unique account holding individual.      They sold far more campaigns than 7 million.   If only because in 2008 they boxed all three and sold about 3 million compelte Guild Wars accounts.

 

http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/structure.aspx

 

 

 

If it is accounts, wouldn't that include trial accounts as well?

Wouldn't the fact that the free TSW weekend is over have quite an influence?

I'd imagine lots of folks gave TSW try and after being disappointed with TSW experience are thinking they better get their asses in gear and catch up on what's happening in GW2

Originally posted by Ambros123

And yet GW2 has beated SWTOR on the hype meter here since.... they were ever added on the list?  GW2 will be fine as it delivers what was promised unlike TORtanic where... did they every tell the truth?

TORtanic.  I actually never heard it called that before, but now I am glad I did. That seriously made me lol.

Originally posted by ElSandman

Originally posted by toddze

 

You have the advatage to see that TOR turned out to be gatbage, I knew TOR was going to be garbage well before launch, and I posted it. I took a beating for it. Kind of like I am taking a beating now, for my GWII remarks, but like tor, I will be laughing last on GWII, saying "I told you so" .

The good thing about GWII is it wont leave a bitter taste in your mouth because of subs. people will constanlty play and quit off and on, like they did in GW1. Come back play awhile see whats new and go play another game.

Have to say I agree 100%.  TOR being a failure well before launch was blatantly obvious, although I did not post it.  GW2 going the same way, ie offering a short term play experience only is also blatantly obvious, although I am also not going to bother posting about it.  I am just not into pissing contests, and "they" just do not want to hear it.  Also it is not hard to justify a one off $60 spend for this short term experience - as you said this is the best part of GW2.

BTW, I am not criticising you for posting this, by all means keep posting, just don't expect them to thank you for it, even when the whining starts.

TOR Was a failure before launch due to its mechanics and its focus on the wrong mechanics aka story and it was charging 15 bucks a month. 

It seem to be that your biggest problem with guild wars 2 based only on this post is that it doesn't have mechanics designed to extend unnecessarily exttend your time. Most other MMORPG try to extend the length by adding barriers, guild wars 2 actually respects you as a player and doesn't use unneccessary tricks into designed to stall you so you can pay a sub.

Make no mistake, not every mmorpg is designed for everybody. guild wars 2 isn't designed for people that want busy work, you can easily have busy work playing WOW. Guild wars 2 is designed for people that want to have fun, gw2 knows every game will eventually get boring but unlike every game it does not punish you significantly for leaving.

Originally posted by niceguy3978

If it is accounts, wouldn't that include trial accounts as well?

I don't think it does, looking at the financials report. For one thing, the free trial came out at the end of 2007. By then they had ~4 - 5 million accounts.

Originally posted by niceguy3978

Originally posted by MosesZD

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by MosesZD

Originally posted by toddze

Originally posted by thekid1

 

Look at the front page..

90% of the thread activity is in GW2 forums.

 

I never seen anything like that before, not with Vanguard, Conan, WAR or Star wars TOR.

GWII doesnt even hold a candle to how popular SWTOR was in november, early december. In general Star Wars fan base is massive. GW is a nich group compared to that. Doesnt matter though both games are woefully dreadfull in their own ways. It just so happens the mmo flavor of the next cople months is GWII, it will fall into MMO oblivion in due time and join TOR.

 

GW1 sold 7 million copies.   It built a massive fan base.   Plus so many people are so **** sick and tired of WoW and the WoW clones...   

 

I think it will easily pass SWTOR's box sales in a year.   It will keep players longer because the game isn't nearly as shallow in so many important domains, hence they will be more involved with the game and less likely to quit.

7 mil is all expansions so individual players would be a good bit less but either way GW1 does have a large fan base and a lot of new comers will try out GW2 because of its b2p appeal not to mention MMO veterans as well. But what I think is going to suprise many people is the lasting appeal of a game like this.

No.    I know that some people have made that argument. And, sadly, the meme has stuck. But the meme was a made by people who were being self-serving and deliberately mis-reporting what had happened in order to downgrade the success of GW1 in order to win a dishonest point in a debate by minimizing the accomplishments of GW1 over the past years.   

 

The financial statements indicate it was SEVEN MILLION ACCOUNTS, not seven million campaigns.  Each account being identified as a unique account holding individual.      They sold far more campaigns than 7 million.   If only because in 2008 they boxed all three and sold about 3 million compelte Guild Wars accounts.

 

http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/structure.aspx

 

 

 

If it is accounts, wouldn't that include trial accounts as well?

No that's only WOW that did that type of accounting remember "Half our accounts never have a character above the level of 10"

I don't believe this one.

/thread?