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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Min-maxing party compositions, classes will get left out?

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35 posts found
  xpiher

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/22/08
Posts: 3300

8/06/12 6:11:48 PM#21
Not so sure about that. It seems each class can be burst dmg, pressure damage, and support. Of course, some will be better than others at certain roles, but I have a feeling that it'll be a lot more forgiving than gw 1


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  AIMonster

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/31/08
Posts: 2016

8/06/12 6:14:40 PM#22

The only profession that might have to worry about getting left out in PvE is a Thief.  They really don't bring much to the table in PvE compared to the other professions. 

Ranger - Spirit walls, awesome support, strong healing, pet tanking, some of the best sustained damage in the game, tanky themselves, amazing for PvE control.

Guardian - Tanking, awesome support, best healer, fantastic control.

Warrior - Nice damage dealers, great control, tanky.

Mesmer - Illusion spam, conditions, best combo field, group haste, good control, decent damage dealers.

Necromancer - Pet zerg and condition spam.

Engineer - Pretty much good all rounder.  Great support, healing, control.

Elementalist - Loads of combo fields, can be tanky, great burst damage especially AoE.

Thief - Umm... sustained damage is a bit low for a class built around damage.  Survivability is low.  Support is almost non-existant.  Control is okay, and they can apply weakness and blind fairly well.

Raptr link because it's the cool new trend:

  Outis

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/07/07
Posts: 101

8/06/12 6:24:04 PM#23
Originally posted by Connmacart

Stupid people will no doubt want to exclude some classes as they did in GW1. Why do they do this. Exactly as mentioned because the other classes visibly show their effects. Rangers and Mesmers in GW1 often had invisible effects as in negating things. This reduced the load on the monks for one, but because it wasn't in plain sight a lot of people wrote them off. 

Classes are not what determines a players worth. It's their skill. So I will only exclude players not classes from groups.

I think this is the major problem in MMOs. People want to blame a class not the person behind the class. Just because a person can burst dps on a boss does not mean they are better at a dungeon crawl then a person who has medium dps with medium heals. Several new generation MMO players do not under stand "their" role in a grp. Also, most of the MMO have allowed strategy to die off completely. More and more MMOs seem to be a "zerg" the mobs and kill them. I remember in EQ if you did not have a strategy the whole party would wipe and this was just pulls in Kunark. You had to CC, debuff, and assist.

Anyways, I am way off topic. I do not think there will be as big of an issue in GW2 on classes being left out. As long as the player understand their class and has tailored their playing style to the skills available, then all classes would be welcome in a grp. just my 2 cents.

  ennymith

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/03/09
Posts: 116

8/07/12 7:07:03 AM#24

Never underestimate the lazyness of MMO players.

Unrealistic looking for group requirements show up almost like clockwork.

There will still be a precieved requirement for several top damage dealers and one or two good support classes.  Thieves, Necro, Mesmer, and Engis will be the least popular.  Warriors, Ele's, Guardians and Rangers should have no problems.

Players are lazy.  Why depend on some Rube Goldberg series of combos/team work, when several DDers and strong support classes can do it with the least fuss?

I have seen plenty of MMOs with the trinity, where players can still beat dungeons without the trinity, if they are all skilled and work as a team, however that is always an exception. 

Most of the time players prefer what gets the job done with the least effort, which is usually some class combination that time has shown to be the min-max solution.

 

 

 

GW2, after 5 years of hype, turns out to be just another Asian end game cash shop grinder. Now that sales have dropped off, F2P can't be far off.

  User Deleted
8/07/12 7:14:05 AM#25
Yeah i am sure that some class-weapon  layouts will see more or less community determined viability compared to others, since even in games where one dps class an another dps class coould do very close to the same damage output yett even a differnce of 1 to 2 percent will be seen as being the differennce between being viability an un-viable. This is just how players in many games are they will nitpick the classes till they find the best proforming ones, and then they will be seen as viable or not. This does not mean that classes will be completely left oout (even in wow some classes/speccs that were seen as unviable  would still get groups), but that the chances of getting groups will be less or higher based on what you are an what you are using.
  User Deleted
8/07/12 11:54:54 AM#26

Even if every class were capable of serving in every role equally well -- which in a complex system where every player does not share identical abilities is impossible -- not every player will play every role in every class with equal skill.

 

I realize that most people see themselves as being so tremendously skilled that they will excel in every role -- and therefore expect other players to as well -- but it baffles me that fans reject the notion that many players will gravitate toward certain classes, and certain roles or role combinations within those classes that are easier for a large segment of the player population to play well.  It's like, because they have to defend their 'fact" that "there are no set roles" in GW2 they choose to completely disregard the human element.

 

In any case, when I'm picking from a random group of players for my basketball team, I'm picking the 6'6" kid from Chicago before I take the 5'5" kid from Montana.  I might be wrong about their level of talent, but I made a decision that gave me the best chance at putting together a winning team without knowing anything else about them.   "Giving somebody a chance" is all well and good, except that if you give a chance and your team is not competitive, nobody is going to want to be on your team the next time.

That's the type of social dynamic players accept when they play an MMO and why most people end up preferring to play with a small group of people who know how to utilize and appreciate their set of skills.

  pierth

Novice Member

Joined: 4/14/06
Posts: 1515

8/07/12 12:05:46 PM#27


Originally posted by ennymith
Never underestimate the lazyness of MMO players.

Unrealistic looking for group requirements show up almost like clockwork.

There will still be a precieved requirement for several top damage dealers and one or two good support classes.  Thieves, Necro, Mesmer, and Engis will be the least popular.  Warriors, Ele's, Guardians and Rangers should have no problems.

Players are lazy.  Why depend on some Rube Goldberg series of combos/team work, when several DDers and strong support classes can do it with the least fuss?

I have seen plenty of MMOs with the trinity, where players can still beat dungeons without the trinity, if they are all skilled and work as a team, however that is always an exception. 

Most of the time players prefer what gets the job done with the least effort, which is usually some class combination that time has shown to be the min-max solution.


+1- and there will no doubt be parsers eventually regardless of whether Anet is okay with it. So regardless of the changes Anet has brought to the traditional roles of the genre it's not going to affect the laziness that is omnipresent if you're PUGing. Sadly not everyone has a pre-made group of besties ready to go.

  waynejr2

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3731

RIP City of Heroes!

8/07/12 1:01:06 PM#28
Originally posted by donpopuki
Only time will tell. Areananet has made many promises but it won't be completely apprant until the game has been out a few months. My hunch is to watch the guardian. Guardain seems too traditonal tanky. But until we see how it all fits together it's too early to make a call.

Do you believe the devs can control who players choose to exclude from grouping?

  Butregenyo

Novice Member

Joined: 6/19/11
Posts: 485

8/07/12 1:03:32 PM#29

@OP

You can complete every single dungeon in the game by using 5 of the same classes (5 thief, 5 ele, etc.).

  jcknows

Novice Member

Joined: 8/16/08
Posts: 21

8/07/12 1:14:36 PM#30
Originally posted by Butregenyo

@OP

You can complete every single dungeon in the game by using 5 of the same classes (5 thief, 5 ele, etc.).

Not sure you understand the OP's post.

Although, they can be completed with all of the same class. As the OP stated, some classes tend to lend themselves better to situations/roles than others and, therefore, become the "preferred" class makeup.At that point elitist jerks and lazy people bar class/role makeups that don't fit the "mold".  Will it happen in GW2? Simple answer.. Yes.   Should it?  No.

  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8589

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

8/07/12 1:16:17 PM#31
There will be bad players and there will be good players...  

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  Atibra

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/19/05
Posts: 65

8/07/12 1:19:12 PM#32

Everyone keeps blaming theorycrafters, elitist jerks, or just plain ignorance on why people are more inclined to attempt to optimize their group instead of just grabbing whomever - when the game mechanics allow you to complete the content with whomever.

 

In reality, Time is most likely the true driving force behind group optimization:

 

Ultimate Online was released in 1997.

Everquest was released in 1999.

World of Warcraft was released in 2004.

 

On average, most MMO enthusiasts have been around the genre for about 10 years.  Whereas a large number of us were in our 20's when we first got into MMOs, time has passed and we're now pushing into our early 30's.

On average, most of us are no longer in school and able to define our own schedules.  On average, most of us are no longer working at a coffee shop or Walmart and have excessive free time. 

The reality is that the playerbase has grown up, settled into a real job, been married and potentially had a few kids.  The 20 something playerbase is the exception in this genre, not the norm.  As such, Time... is the most important thing to us.

So - whereas theorycrafters, elitist jerks and ignorant people still do exist and drive the perception of elitist optimized group forming.  The majority of the players simply realize they have a limited amount of time to play, and as such are more inclined to spend 5 minutes longer attemptig to find the most optimized group - instead of taking anyone in the group, just for fun, and spending an additional 30-60 minutes trying to complete the content.

 

  Wickedjelly

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/09
Posts: 5064

The Dude abides

8/07/12 1:30:08 PM#33
Eh...not sure about left out but I can see a lot of pugs least in the beginning thinking a Guardian is a must have.

1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  Lucioon

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/06
Posts: 840

8/07/12 1:41:34 PM#34

Will there be favorites ? YES

Will there be classes and builds that certain players will want? YES

Will there be Min/Maxing happening with this MMO? YES

Will there be classes left out when joining an Dungeon Party? YES

All these things will still happen, nothing is gonna stop it, people will be people, if someone said that Guardians is a Must, certain groups will always have a Guardian, but it doesn't mean that Guardian that you have is good at being a Guardian.

The players that will be in my Friend's list will be players that knows what the hell they are doing, regardless of Class or Profession.

Having the Optimal Build and Class combination still requires those players to know how to play and when to do what they need to do.

If there is 5 Warriors for a dungeon, I will still go through the dungeon, because they might be the best Warriors out there, each avoid the damages, and killing every boss like a BOSS, would be the quickest Dungeon ever, and still won't be the best combination and Maxing setup. 

Personally I would avoid all parties that seeks an specific role, or specific class, its not even worth the try if they are already broadcasting that they can not play any other way except this way. That just tells me that this party can not adapt, nor change their playstyle when required. They are so set in their ways, that if a boss does something different, or an Rare encounter happens, a wipe is guaranteed. Who the hell wants to join a party like that? 

 

I think what will happen after everyone gets used to the game would be, I choose someone else because You never avoid the fire on the ground, or you triggered every single trap everytime we went into the dungeon. Or you use range weapons when in melee, and melee when in range. Or you are always drunk, or you never wait for the group, not a team player.....etc

Instead of , you are an Warrior I need a Ranger.

Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.

  Spendrik

Novice Member

Joined: 3/29/06
Posts: 39

8/07/12 1:51:53 PM#35

I doubt it's just elitist jerks or lazy players who would stick to an 'optimal' group composition.

How about people who don't have much time to play and want to accomplish as much as possible during their play session?

Not everyone is ok wiping over and over again, and most players would want to maximize their success rates, especially for challenging content.

What easier way to succeed than to pick the right professions for the team?

Tips for people who don't want to be left out (for challenging content, NOT story mode dungeons, DEs or PUGs)

1. Make friends and stick with a guild or group as early as possible in the game. Don't expect to solo to level cap and then find a group who won't pick and choose.

2. Learn your profession, skills, builds, gear, and play it well.

3. Play nice, and you'll get invited again. Most players would rather play with a polite, mature player who's average, than a skilled jerk.

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