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General Discussion  » What makes GW2 a paradigm shift?

19 posts found
  BilboDoggins

Novice Member

Joined: 1/20/12
Posts: 205

 
OP  8/05/12 1:38:31 PM#1

I often hear the phrase "paradigm shift" used to describe what GW2 is going to do for the genre. However I don't see what GW2 is doing that actually makes it a "paradigm shift" seeing as how every aspect of the game has been done before already by games before it.

 

So please enlighten me as to what makes GW2 a "paradigm shift".

  FlawSGI

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/14/10
Posts: 1426

All of history is a lie. The truth depends on who does the listening, and who does the telling...

8/05/12 1:58:38 PM#2
I remember you from this http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5081999#5081999.  I don't concidder myself a fanboy but I do like what the game is doing and no, it hasn't all been done before. It has all been explained before though so feel free to look it up if you were really looking for an answer but with your previouse attitude towards the game I think I'll leave it at that. Good luck with whatever it is you are out to accomplish with this.

RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.

  Mithrandolir

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/28/05
Posts: 1712

Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft' might win, by fearing to attempt

8/05/12 2:04:38 PM#3

The only time I have seen the phrase "Paradigm Shift" used in reference to GW2 is a guild that goes by that name.

GW2, imo, takes a lot of great things from previous games, builds on the concepts and advances the systems in a way which I personally feel (after playing it) is a great direction. If somebody doesn't like the concept of dynamic events or an action paced world of events, then obviously the advancement of these systems would not be to their liking as well, for the most part.

GW2 does almost nothing as a copy and paste implementation from other games. It moves almost everything it does in one way or another, whether people like the direction or not.

Paradigm shift? Nah.

Incredible progress? In my opinion, no doubt.

 

  Tarka

Novice Member

Joined: 10/26/07
Posts: 1673

Free speech is a right, common sense is a duty.

8/05/12 2:06:23 PM#4
Originally posted by BilboDoggins

I often hear the phrase "paradigm shift" used to describe what GW2 is going to do for the genre. However I don't see what GW2 is doing that actually makes it a "paradigm shift" seeing as how every aspect of the game has been done before already by games before it.

 

So please enlighten me as to what makes GW2 a "paradigm shift".

Personally, I wouldn't say that it's a complete "paradigm shift", more like a selective "paradigm shift".  What I mean is that in my opinion it's includes an evolutionary take on certain core systems that are found in many "themepark" type MMO's

For instance, the "Renown Hearts" and Dynamic Events systems are both an evolutionary take on the traditional linear quest system found in games like Rift, TOR and WoW.  Both of the GW2 systems create an environment which (to me at least) feels more "natural" and fluidic.  Where results of an event can have consequences on future events that follow.

  • Is it a paradigm shift?  In certain respects I'd say yes. 
  • Is it a complete paradigm shift in respect to how to design an MMO?  No.  There are still other systems in the game that can be attributed to games that came before it. 

It all comes down to what one defines as the meaning of the term "paradigm shift".

 

The fact is that the differences found in GW2 do set it apart from other MMO's.  Will it be enough for it to be successful?  I don't think anyone can say right now with any degree of certainty.

  Roybe

Novice Member

Joined: 7/02/10
Posts: 424

8/05/12 2:06:46 PM#5

The problem I've found people have with using this term (I have and still believe it is a valid term in business settings) is that the definition of it in the strictest sense is that a new discovery in a branch of science makes all other theories obsolete e.g.  by using a planned scientific experiment around the globe, it was proven that the earth is round.  This makes any further theory about the earth being flat, square, ovoid, etc.  nonsensical and wrong.  Therefore, since there is nothing that can create this type of fundamental change to the way business runs, there is no way to call naything a business creates a 'pardigm shift'.

 

My argument to this is that there can be changes made that make a business, or it's output, so fundamentally different that it makes little sense for people to go back to an older model.  Yes, there are still people that do not have a cell phone (I am actually one of those), but it's a narrow group of people that a cell phone does not appeal to.  As things improve with the coverage/cost of cell phones it will become a smaller and smaller population that will not have one.

 

So the easy way to relate this to GW2 is by using what is being called the GW2 effect.  The fact that many people that have played GW2, cannot go back to their old game of choice because they do not find it fun, enticing, or otherwise worth their time.  Why?  That's the magic question.  The best answer I have been able to come up with is that the overall game of GW2 is better than many other games in the same genre, not because of any single change (or group of changes) but the game as a whole is better than the sum of it's parts, which in terms of this discussion make it better than most games within the genre.  I think the statment 'it just works' conveys this quite nicely.

 

  delete5230

Elite Member

Joined: 8/15/07
Posts: 2622

8/05/12 2:11:24 PM#6
Paradigm shift.............I like pizza
  Tarka

Novice Member

Joined: 10/26/07
Posts: 1673

Free speech is a right, common sense is a duty.

8/05/12 2:15:15 PM#7
Originally posted by Roybe

The problem I've found people have with using this term (I have and still believe it is a valid term in business settings) is that the definition of it in the strictest sense is that a new discovery in a branch of science makes all other theories obsolete e.g.  by using a planned scientific experiment around the globe, it was proven that the earth is round.  This makes any further theory about the earth being flat, square, ovoid, etc.  nonsensical and wrong.  Therefore, since there is nothing that can create this type of fundamental change to the way business runs, there is no way to call naything a business creates a 'pardigm shift'.

 

My argument to this is that there can be changes made that make a business, or it's output, so fundamentally different that it makes little sense for people to go back to an older model.  Yes, there are still people that do not have a cell phone (I am actually one of those), but it's a narrow group of people that a cell phone does not appeal to.  As things improve with the coverage/cost of cell phones it will become a smaller and smaller population that will not have one.

 

So the easy way to relate this to GW2 is by using what is being called the GW2 effect.  The fact that many people that have played the game, do not find it fun, enticing, or otherwise worth their time to play their old game of choice.  Why?  That's the magic question.  The best answer I have been able to come up with is that the overall game of GW2 is better than many other games in the same genre, not because of any single change (or group of changes) but the game as a whole is better than the sum of it's parts, which in terms of this discussion make it better than most games within the genre.  I think the statment 'it just works' conveys this quite nicely.

Erm...the bit in red seems to contradict the rest of your post. 

Anyhow, I do agree that the "the whole is better than the sum of its parts" is probably a good (albeit vague) summary.

  tixylix

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 1136

8/05/12 2:15:30 PM#8
If you don't like MMOs you still wont like them, GW2 is pretty much your standard MMO, it's basically like WAR but if WAR was alright and not complete shit.
  bubaluba

Novice Member

Joined: 7/23/12
Posts: 464

8/05/12 2:15:32 PM#9
Because it is wow killer
  Cromica

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/03/09
Posts: 671

8/05/12 2:17:06 PM#10
Paradigm shift? Maybe not. Best mmo I have played in 7 years? YES
  Tarka

Novice Member

Joined: 10/26/07
Posts: 1673

Free speech is a right, common sense is a duty.

8/05/12 2:17:51 PM#11
Originally posted by tixylix
If you don't like MMOs you still wont like them, GW2 is pretty much your standard MMO, it's basically like WAR but if WAR was alright and not complete shit.


Erm....no....just.....no.

  delete5230

Elite Member

Joined: 8/15/07
Posts: 2622

8/05/12 2:18:09 PM#12
Originally posted by Roybe

The problem I've found people have with using this term (I have and still believe it is a valid term in business settings) is that the definition of it in the strictest sense is that a new discovery in a branch of science makes all other theories obsolete e.g.  by using a planned scientific experiment around the globe, it was proven that the earth is round.  This makes any further theory about the earth being flat, square, ovoid, etc.  nonsensical and wrong.  Therefore, since there is nothing that can create this type of fundamental change to the way business runs, there is no way to call naything a business creates a 'pardigm shift'.

 

My argument to this is that there can be changes made that make a business, or it's output, so fundamentally different that it makes little sense for people to go back to an older model.  Yes, there are still people that do not have a cell phone (I am actually one of those), but it's a narrow group of people that a cell phone does not appeal to.  As things improve with the coverage/cost of cell phones it will become a smaller and smaller population that will not have one.

 

So the easy way to relate this to GW2 is by using what is being called the GW2 effect.  The fact that many people that have played the game, do not find it fun, enticing, or otherwise worth their time to play their old game of choice.  Why?  That's the magic question.  The best answer I have been able to come up with is that the overall game of GW2 is better than many other games in the same genre, not because of any single change (or group of changes) but the game as a whole is better than the sum of it's parts, which in terms of this discussion make it better than most games within the genre.  I think the statment 'it just works' conveys this quite nicely.

 

 

This guy is one smart mo fo

  WarriorNeeds

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/31/12
Posts: 36

8/05/12 2:19:24 PM#13

For all the reasons every poster has put in the GW2 forums...until people get tired of it, then it will be something entirely different.

 

  Nadia

Tipster

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11718

8/05/12 2:19:55 PM#14
Originally posted by BilboDoggins

I often hear the phrase "paradigm shift" used to describe what GW2 is going to do for the genre.

i wouldnt mind more companies offering "buy to play" mmos

but im not expecting any industry adaptation beyond that

  wrightstuf

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/09
Posts: 714

8/05/12 2:22:48 PM#15
Originally posted by delete5230
Paradigm shift.............I like pizza


more like....i like pizza, but as i'm eating it i suddenly have a craving for fried chicken

  seridan

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/26/12
Posts: 1212

8/05/12 2:29:27 PM#16
Originally posted by Roybe

So the easy way to relate this to GW2 is by using what is being called the GW2 effect.  The fact that many people that have played the game, do not find it fun, enticing, or otherwise worth their time to play their old game of choice.  Why?  That's the magic question.  The best answer I have been able to come up with is that the overall game of GW2 is better than many other games in the same genre, not because of any single change (or group of changes) but the game as a whole is better than the sum of it's parts, which in terms of this discussion make it better than most games within the genre.  I think the statment 'it just works' conveys this quite nicely.

 

Exactly. The "Guild Wars 2 effect" makes other games seem so boring and not fun at all. Probably that's why on lists with "things you don't like about GW2" it's pretty common to see "it makes other games look bad" or something along those lines.

Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums

  Leethe

Novice Member

Joined: 3/12/09
Posts: 876

8/05/12 2:43:29 PM#17
Originally posted by BilboDoggins

I often hear the phrase "paradigm shift" used to describe what GW2 is going to do for the genre. However I don't see what GW2 is doing that actually makes it a "paradigm shift" seeing as how every aspect of the game has been done before already by games before it.

 

So please enlighten me as to what makes GW2 a "paradigm shift".

I think many may be looking in the wrong place. The paradigm shift is what is happening to players' expectations and actions. From now on I will expect much, much more from developers who want my £10 per month. 

If I can't go into a game, wonder off in a random direction and find meaningful content, I will not pay.

If I'm forced to play in "world of corridors" I will not pay.

If a game tries to force me to ONLY be a dps, support or tank I will not pay.

If developers design a world were kill-stealing and douch-baggery is encouraged, I will not pay...

And this is the kicker: I hold GW2 as the bare minumum standard for a B2P game. If a game maker wants to charge me box price plus a sub then it had better be above and beyond what Anet are offering. Playing sub games with cash shops just seems silly now. 

The paradigm shift seems to be happening inside of players, not within the game.

 

There is NO miracle patch.

95% of what you see in beta won't change by launch.

Hope is not a stategy.
______________________________
"This kind of topic is like one of those little cartoon boxes held up by a stick on a string, with a piece of meat under it. In other words, bait."

  lightblade

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/19/06
Posts: 220

8/05/12 2:48:32 PM#18
Massively improved, yes. Paradigm shift, no. People that called it a paradigm shift probably only played 1 or 2 MMORPG in their life time. If you look at individual features of Guild wars 2, there really isn't much new. How they improved it is how to make all of these features fit together.
  jondifool

Novice Member

Joined: 6/04/07
Posts: 1122

8/05/12 3:11:25 PM#19
Originally posted by BilboDoggins

 

So please enlighten me as to what makes GW2 a "paradigm shift".

 

read this

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/view/forums/thread/336987/The-Tao-of-Arenanet.html

it explains whats innovative- if its enough to be a paradigm shift ? you have to judge that yourself.

read how to create a succesfull mmo before posting about GW2. And read tao of ArenaNet before talking about innovation in GW2