Originally posted by jpnz

 

I still don't understand the logic of 'failed' though. A product is profitable for a company = Fail?

How does that logic work? HOW?

Failed = Not success financially 

SWTOR cost  200m  ( rumors from 120-300  i took average ) + 700 millions to spent to buy bioware + 500m will spend to shares to buy back are all costs now .What EA got back  ? Minus money from games after bioware bought  .

You are talking about  1.400.000.000. ( 1billion and 400 millions ) $  - (minus ) swtor bring after release - other bioware games brought until now . This is what this swtor did to EA financially .I think it is beyond fail , a disaster actually .

And where do you know SWTOR is   making profit ? I knew EA talked about numbers that needed for break even and profit 500.000 and 1.000.000 excat , but do you know  SWTOR net income or net loss until now ?these numbers never told by EA to my knowledge .

Hardcore gamers? Please, this game is easy as it comes.

Also I would doubt about the SW fans part. Perhaps fans of the newer SW movies but not the classic ones. This game lacks in depth to cater to those and is catering too much to the younger/teen crowd.

target players are fans of the saga nothing more or less. it may gather someone out from the box but that is minority.

also game is far from hardcore so please dont even try to claim otherwise.

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by Sovrath

 

Except the OP is somewhat correct.

That's kind of a problem with these forums. It seems there are posters who think that every game that is made and that they are interested in, is meant for them.

It's very clear that the gamut of games, though there are similarties, do speak to different players in different ways.

 

Exactly. This game was advertised as a story centric game and that is exactly what it is.  Obviously it's not a game for people who like to just rush to engame and not give a damn about lore. Those people have already been catered to enough as far I'm concerned . Bioware went a different direction and so did Funcom with TSW. For those that don't like cutscenes and think gameplay is all that matters, you have an entire library of past and future MMOs to play with.   Stop being so selfish.  Not every game is meant to cater to your special needs. 

A story-centric mmorpg.

So the fact that it was marketed and sold to everyone as an mmorpg, and it fails in that respect is ok for you? We're all being selfish are we because we expected a decent game with lots of ways to play with our friends and not just in the few instances? I didn't rush through content, i went through every scene, but I was doing it alone because it is geared towards soloing and single player play. The game doesn't encourage grouped play and doesn't have the correct environment for mmo play.

How dare you. Your post is arrogant and insulting to all of us who payed good money for a game that was falsely advertised. I'm sick and tired of reading such 'you are all to blame with your high expectations' posts on here. Mmorpg players have been catered for enough have we? We haven't had a decent game since EQ!

Originally posted by MMOSavant

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by Sovrath

 

Except the OP is somewhat correct.

That's kind of a problem with these forums. It seems there are posters who think that every game that is made and that they are interested in, is meant for them.

It's very clear that the gamut of games, though there are similarties, do speak to different players in different ways.

 

Exactly. This game was advertised as a story centric game and that is exactly what it is.  Obviously it's not a game for people who like to just rush to engame and not give a damn about lore. Those people have already been catered to enough as far I'm concerned . Bioware went a different direction and so did Funcom with TSW. For those that don't like cutscenes and think gameplay is all that matters, you have an entire library of past and future MMOs to play with.   Stop being so selfish.  Not every game is meant to cater to your special needs. 

 

A story-centric mmorpg.

So the fact that it was marketed and sold to everyone as an mmorpg, and it fails in that respect is ok for you? We're all being selfish are we because we expected a decent game with lots of ways to play with our friends and not just in the few instances? I didn't rush through content, i went through every scene, but I was doing it alone because it is geared towards soloing and single player play. The game doesn't encourage grouped play and doesn't have the correct environment for mmo play.

How dare you. Your post is arrogant and insulting to all of us who payed good money for a game that was falsely advertised. I'm sick and tired of reading such 'you are all to blame with your high expectations' posts on here. Mmorpg players have been catered for enough have we? We haven't had a decent game since EQ!

 

omg how dramatic lol. It is no different than just about any other MMO available today as far as single player options and multiplayer options are concerned. You want no single player, go play Darkfall as that was such a HUGE success lol. I def feel the cutscenes made things less social, but if you look up the definition of an MMORPG it meets that definition. Whether you think it should meet it even further is irrelevant. It may not ENCOURAGE group play like GW2 will, but it certainly doesn't stop people from DOING Group Play.

Originally posted by MMOSavant

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by Sovrath

 

Except the OP is somewhat correct.

That's kind of a problem with these forums. It seems there are posters who think that every game that is made and that they are interested in, is meant for them.

It's very clear that the gamut of games, though there are similarties, do speak to different players in different ways.

 

Exactly. This game was advertised as a story centric game and that is exactly what it is.  Obviously it's not a game for people who like to just rush to engame and not give a damn about lore. Those people have already been catered to enough as far I'm concerned . Bioware went a different direction and so did Funcom with TSW. For those that don't like cutscenes and think gameplay is all that matters, you have an entire library of past and future MMOs to play with.   Stop being so selfish.  Not every game is meant to cater to your special needs. 

 

A story-centric mmorpg.

So the fact that it was marketed and sold to everyone as an mmorpg, and it fails in that respect is ok for you? We're all being selfish are we because we expected a decent game with lots of ways to play with our friends and not just in the few instances? I didn't rush through content, i went through every scene, but I was doing it alone because it is geared towards soloing and single player play. The game doesn't encourage grouped play and doesn't have the correct environment for mmo play.

To you it failed as an MMO. To the others that are currently enjoying it didn't. Once again this is all a matter of opinion.

How dare you. Your post is arrogant and insulting to all of us who payed good money for a game that was falsely advertised. I'm sick and tired of reading such 'you are all to blame with your high expectations' posts on here. Mmorpg players have been catered for enough have we? We haven't had a decent game since EQ!

Your  opinion is no more important than mine and I have every right to post it.  The game was not falsely advertised. You just didn't like it.  No where am I blaming players for having too high expectations so I don't know here you're getting that bit of drivel from. My post was referring to the people that have consistently said that cutscenes have no place in MMOs. It's a view I've seen quite a bit on these forums and one that I strongly disagree with.  And yes, it is a selfish one. 

Also, if you havn't liked a single MMO since EQ, a game that was released in 1999, then  perhaps MMOs aren't for you any longer. 

 

Originally posted by Ahnog

SWTOR’s intended player base is not hardcore gamers who are looking for innovation in MMOs.  These are looking for a new thrill, and are not satisfied with MMOs as they exist today. Furthermore, they have rejected the game and moved on and and are now looking for GW2 and other games to break new ground for them. Good luck guys and gals.

 

SWTOR does appeal to hardcore gamers who are satisfied with incremental innovation in MMOs.  I count myself among this number, and I love the game. BW has added its special touch to MMOs by getting rid of text box quest givers and introduced us to a vibrant, interesting set of story lines that involve us in conversations with the non-player character world. They have made innovations in crafting by getting rid of roaming the lands looking for resources, and other small steps. Kudos BW!

 

SWTOR’s intended player base is Star Wars fans. Most of these have never even heard of a MMO, much less played one. But they, my son among them, love the thing that is Star Wars. They have models, collections, toys, and copies of the movies which they watch over and over again wishing there was more to the story. BW has brought them that story, and almost 2 million of them responded by buying the game. They liked the game, but they weren’t prepared to pay $15 a month for it and they began slipping away.

 

The decision to go F2P will reach these fans and the game will surpass WOW in population.  They will come in droves and learn the basics of MMOs as they explore the Star Wars universe. Wookies, Jedi, especially Jedi, the Republic, space ships, and new stories—they are all there. The game can’t help but be a success now.

 

BW, LucasArts, and EA knew who they were after, but they erred in thinking these fans would come to a subscription based MMO. They’ve seen the error of their ways and they are correcting it. A great future lies ahead for them and for the players.

 

The bottom line is that SWTOR will survive and prosper, and that’s all we wanted in the first place.

 Actually the bottom line is this:  Staw Wars fans and even gamers in general, deserve better then this obvious money grabbing - failed exploitation of the SW IP.

TOR's original intended playerbase was exactly what BioWare/EA got at launch.  Look at it, 2.4 million boxes sold, some at 150 each (1 got 2 of them).  Incredible hype machine/marketing.  In my memory at least, I have no recall of any game launching anywhere near those numbers.  BioWare did a great job, pre-launch.

However, the game just didn't live up to the hype/marketing spin.  Leveling was done well with little extras such as cut scenes.  And those cut scenes were and are just a "little extra" as gameplay is the main reason most any of us play a game, for the long term anyway.  I had some inclination that TOR had problems when a BW dev was asked the question of end game and he said "re-roll" before launch.  I don't care if it takes 200 hours or 2000 hours to get to end game, eventualy it will be reached and BioWare's plan was to have us re-roll and do it all over again with just a few class quests to make the experience any different from the last one.  While I have seen people that are "alt-crazy" most MMO players are not and want to play their "main".  Their basic game design gates this part of gameplay for the most part with "dailys" and OPs that go on cool-downs so when your done with these, log off and wait till the next day.  That was and is a mistake in design. and their failure to retain subscriptions shows this to no end.

So their "target playerbase" has now CHANGED.

These particuliar lead developers are the old "NGE" devs.  When they have a playerbase that doesn't appreciate what they have done or not enough that do, they will re-design the game to appeal to a playerbase they do not have, and even have no idea if it even exists or not.   ALL at the cost of the playerbase they do have.  Such was the original concept behind SWG's NGE that even "Smed" knows full well was a mistake now, but these guys didn't stick around SOE Austin long enough to figure this one out.  They only know what their limited experience with NGE taught them before BioWare hired these guys in early 2006 (NGE was Nov 15, 2005).  And that was to arrogantly believe that if players don't like what they've done, they're not worthy of said development and they'll leave it as "marketing's" job to go find this playerbase that loves them.  This re-design, for TOR, is now F2P and will impact the existing playerbase to no end.  I seen it 1st hand in STO.  The people that are invested and like the game will be the ones that the store is targeted at in the end all/be all.  You'll end up paying a sub and then spending money, sometimes big money, in addition to your 15 per/month.  They all start out with "It will only be fluff, subs will get it all for free, and NO P2W" but when it is shown these F2P players just won't part with their wallets, the other becomes the hard target.  These games require money to change hands and if the F2Pers won't part with it, the sub players end up footing the bill as they already open their wallets, "so let's see how far we can push them". 

If the ones that like and sub to the game don't pay?  I'm sure EA will have no problem pulling the plug.  And remember here. EA is talking at least $7,500,000 dollars per month (500K @ 15) for even the break even point so this will not be another STO, or any of the other F2P games that exist on 100K, or less, people (F2P and P2P) in their game.

---

Originally posted by Ahnog
SWTOR’s intended player base is not hardcore gamers who are looking for innovation in MMOs.  These are looking for a new thrill, and are not satisfied with MMOs as they exist today. Furthermore, they have rejected the game and moved on and and are now looking for GW2 and other games to break new ground for them. Good luck guys and gals.

 

SWTOR does appeal to hardcore gamers who are satisfied with incremental innovation in MMOs.  I count myself among this number, and I love the game. BW has added its special touch to MMOs by getting rid of text box quest givers and introduced us to a vibrant, interesting set of story lines that involve us in conversations with the non-player character world. They have made innovations in crafting by getting rid of roaming the lands looking for resources, and other small steps. Kudos BW!

 

SWTOR’s intended player base is Star Wars fans. Most of these have never even heard of a MMO, much less played one. But they, my son among them, love the thing that is Star Wars. They have models, collections, toys, and copies of the movies which they watch over and over again wishing there was more to the story. BW has brought them that story, and almost 2 million of them responded by buying the game. They liked the game, but they weren’t prepared to pay $15 a month for it and they began slipping away.

 

The decision to go F2P will reach these fans and the game will surpass WOW in population.  They will come in droves and learn the basics of MMOs as they explore the Star Wars universe. Wookies, Jedi, especially Jedi, the Republic, space ships, and new stories—they are all there. The game can’t help but be a success now.

 

BW, LucasArts, and EA knew who they were after, but they erred in thinking these fans would come to a subscription based MMO. They’ve seen the error of their ways and they are correcting it. A great future lies ahead for them and for the players.

 

The bottom line is that SWTOR will survive and prosper, and that’s all we wanted in the first place.

---

Any hardcore gamer worth his self proclaimed title would have 8 characters fully decked out in raid gear by now. the raids are painfully faceroll when the bugs don't kill you.

pvp is just miserable .. even still I had 2 characters maxed in pvp and pve before 1.2 and I dont even consider myself very hardcore anymore.

I enjoyed levelling in star wars there was nothing much wrong with that.  The problem is there was very little massively in this massively online roleplaying game.  By that I mean compelling and good reasons to play with other people which was always halted by the fact you were on a different part of the "story".

There should be no such thing as "rushing" there should be enough content there to satisfy customers not copied features done badly of the most popular mmorpg.  The Star Wars could have been so much (in order to prevent rushing), space sand box style  exploration, guild held planets for the republic or imperials with ports and check points for security, actual pvp space combat and so forth.

F2P was needed because GW2 is about to nail this game to the ground and Im not being mean to swtor, I have a feeling GW2 is going to give WoW a damn good run for its money and others. Then we have MOP releasing, regardless whether you like either the fall out of these two titans will affect the smaller industry as a whole.

This game has not survived it has crawled to a stop with 100s of people being shed from the EA Bioware offices and big names leaving, RIP Rockjaw please please head up CoX2 community.  They simply do not have the resources to plug back into the game and EA have even stated this is something like 5th on their roster for development as its not a priority or bringing in enough money to pay attention to it.  Sadly that is why I will never play this again, once a developer gives up there is not much to stay for.

If as you say the intended playerbase was not hit then EA/bioware spent a couple of 100s of millions of dollars of marketing (as is the EA machine) on trying to grab the wrong people.  Which is a terrible TERRIBLE case of mismanagement.

GW2 will be announcing millions+ of players and live accounts soon enough, this will drown out any noise swtor will try to make, if they have any marketing budget left.

And then we will have Planetside 2 which is unbelievably free at all points of access including no box price, which still has my jaw on the floor.

Originally posted by Esquire1980

TOR's original intended playerbase was exactly what BioWare/EA got at launch.  Look at it, 2.4 million boxes sold, some at 150 each (1 got 2 of them).  Incredible hype machine/marketing.  In my memory at least, I have no recall of any game launching anywhere near those numbers.  BioWare did a great job, pre-launch.

However, the game just didn't live up to the hype/marketing spin.  Leveling was done well with little extras such as cut scenes.  And those cut scenes were and are just a "little extra" as gameplay is the main reason most any of us play a game, for the long term anyway.  I had some inclination that TOR had problems when a BW dev was asked the question of end game and he said "re-roll" before launch.  I don't care if it takes 200 hours or 2000 hours to get to end game, eventualy it will be reached and BioWare's plan was to have us re-roll and do it all over again with just a few class quests to make the experience any different from the last one.  While I have seen people that are "alt-crazy" most MMO players are not and want to play their "main".  Their basic game design gates this part of gameplay for the most part with "dailys" and OPs that go on cool-downs so when your done with these, log off and wait till the next day.  That was and is a mistake in design. and their failure to retain subscriptions shows this to no end.

So their "target playerbase" has now CHANGED.

These particuliar lead developers are the old "NGE" devs.  When they have a playerbase that doesn't appreciate what they have done or not enough that do, they will re-design the game to appeal to a playerbase they do not have, and even have no idea if it even exists or not.   ALL at the cost of the playerbase they do have.  Such was the original concept behind SWG's NGE that even "Smed" knows full well was a mistake now, but these guys didn't stick around SOE Austin long enough to figure this one out.  They only know what their limited experience with NGE taught them before BioWare hired these guys in early 2006 (NGE was Nov 15, 2005).  And that was to arrogantly believe that if players don't like what they've done, they're not worthy of said development and they'll leave it as "marketing's" job to go find this playerbase that loves them.  This re-design, for TOR, is now F2P and will impact the existing playerbase to no end.  I seen it 1st hand in STO.  The people that are invested and like the game will be the ones that the store is targeted at in the end all/be all.  You'll end up paying a sub and then spending money, sometimes big money, in addition to your 15 per/month.  They all start out with "It will only be fluff, subs will get it all for free, and NO P2W" but when it is shown these F2P players just won't part with their wallets, the other becomes the hard target.  These games require money to change hands and if the F2Pers won't part with it, the sub players end up footing the bill as they already open their wallets, "so let's see how far we can push them". 

If the ones that like and sub to the game don't pay?  I'm sure EA will have no problem pulling the plug.  And remember here. EA is talking at least $7,500,000 dollars per month (500K @ 15) for even the break even point so this will not be another STO, or any of the other F2P games that exist on 100K, or less, people (F2P and P2P) in their game.

Have to QFE this.

Originally posted by MMOSavant

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by Sovrath

 

Except the OP is somewhat correct.

That's kind of a problem with these forums. It seems there are posters who think that every game that is made and that they are interested in, is meant for them.

It's very clear that the gamut of games, though there are similarties, do speak to different players in different ways.

 

Exactly. This game was advertised as a story centric game and that is exactly what it is.  Obviously it's not a game for people who like to just rush to engame and not give a damn about lore. Those people have already been catered to enough as far I'm concerned . Bioware went a different direction and so did Funcom with TSW. For those that don't like cutscenes and think gameplay is all that matters, you have an entire library of past and future MMOs to play with.   Stop being so selfish.  Not every game is meant to cater to your special needs. 

 

A story-centric mmorpg.

So the fact that it was marketed and sold to everyone as an mmorpg, and it fails in that respect is ok for you? We're all being selfish are we because we expected a decent game with lots of ways to play with our friends and not just in the few instances? I didn't rush through content, i went through every scene, but I was doing it alone because it is geared towards soloing and single player play. The game doesn't encourage grouped play and doesn't have the correct environment for mmo play.

How dare you. Your post is arrogant and insulting to all of us who payed good money for a game that was falsely advertised. I'm sick and tired of reading such 'you are all to blame with your high expectations' posts on here. Mmorpg players have been catered for enough have we? We haven't had a decent game since EQ!

 

Ok Hamlet, relax.

I paid good money for the game as well and I enjoyed it, grouped, did lots of stuff that was fun. Just because you weren't able to quite "make it there" doesn't make it our fault.

So relax.

Originally posted by Rydeson
Honestly.. I don't think Bioware knows who and what are their customers..  I just get this feeling from Bioware just threw a handfull of darts at a board to identify their customers.. lil of this, lil of that.. and some of them.. none of those..  BTW, did we tell you about our 4th pillar?  lol

I think they thought they could make any game they wanted and that everyone would eat it up.

And yes, many people like the game. But there is only so much they can do until one reaches cap; then what?

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Rydeson
Honestly.. I don't think Bioware knows who and what are their customers..  I just get this feeling from Bioware just threw a handfull of darts at a board to identify their customers.. lil of this, lil of that.. and some of them.. none of those..  BTW, did we tell you about our 4th pillar?  lol

I think they thought they could make any game they wanted and that everyone would eat it up.

And yes, many people like the game. But there is only so much they can do until one reaches cap; then what?

That is the whole point that people do not really understand or pretetend not to.

Lots of people like the GAME, but they dislike the MMO

SWTOR is a good game, not a good MMO.

I liked it until I got to level cap, then the boredom took over...........and pretty fast.

Bioware basically made KOTOR 3 (not even the best) and thrown in some ramdom MMO features badly implemented (PvP has to be the worst PvP ever experienced in a MMO)

This is not how you make a MMO.

First you build the MMO basics, then you throw in the Lore and the Story.

Developers (this is not just Bioware) are overlooking the MMO basics which are aimed to build a community of players, that's the only way you keep subscriptions going.

If you don't do that, players will focus on beating the game and then they will move on to the next game.............this looks so obvious to me.

Players are treating those MMOs as single player games (use and discard), because the MMO features are treated as an afterthought by the developers.

That's the sad true of today MMO industry.

Originally posted by colddog04

*snip*

 I'm really kind of confused about their payment model to be honest. It just doesn't sound all that well thought out. They must be expecting that people will like the game so much that they will want to sub. Which flys directly in the face of what you say in your post - that people left because they don't want to pay a sub.

 This! The only thing worth paying for is the story, and that is about the only thing that free players have full access to. I really don't see why anybody would pay anything for a F2P game. It's still the same game people have been quitting faster than any other game.

The free players will sit down to the game, play it, like it for the story or ditch it. When the story is done, they might pay to figure out there really isn't anything worth paying for, but I honestly don't see this bringing in lots of money.

I guess EA just wants 'players' now and has given up on actually making money from this game.

I think they really did make this game for kotor people. not sure were I read that some rumor or whatever. but it felt that way. I think they really wanted to get people who play single player games and those who like star wars. I have the one postive that was fun for me, my first class story was pretty good. of course all those side quest were ok as well. but I spent allot of time skipping so many bonus and heroic quest and just wanted to see whats next for my class story. I tried to repeat that with an alt but crapped out after level 39.

By then I just lost intrerest. No way I wanted to hit all those planets and deal with all those same quest again.it's an ok game. of course even free to play for people wanting to check it out, sure go for it. but I won't go into my endless list of bugs and problems I found with the game.

If you enjoy swtor then avoid forums,and play it.. many of us for various reason will avoid it.

Originally posted by Ahnog

SWTOR’s intended player base is not hardcore gamers who are looking for innovation in MMOs.  These are looking for a new thrill, and are not satisfied with MMOs as they exist today. Furthermore, they have rejected the game and moved on and and are now looking for GW2 and other games to break new ground for them. Good luck guys and gals.

 

SWTOR does appeal to hardcore gamers who are satisfied with incremental innovation in MMOs.  I count myself among this number, and I love the game. BW has added its special touch to MMOs by getting rid of text box quest givers and introduced us to a vibrant, interesting set of story lines that involve us in conversations with the non-player character world. They have made innovations in crafting by getting rid of roaming the lands looking for resources, and other small steps. Kudos BW!

 

SWTOR’s intended player base is Star Wars fans. Most of these have never even heard of a MMO, much less played one. But they, my son among them, love the thing that is Star Wars. They have models, collections, toys, and copies of the movies which they watch over and over again wishing there was more to the story. BW has brought them that story, and almost 2 million of them responded by buying the game. They liked the game, but they weren’t prepared to pay $15 a month for it and they began slipping away.

 

The decision to go F2P will reach these fans and the game will surpass WOW in population.  They will come in droves and learn the basics of MMOs as they explore the Star Wars universe. Wookies, Jedi, especially Jedi, the Republic, space ships, and new stories—they are all there. The game can’t help but be a success now.

 

BW, LucasArts, and EA knew who they were after, but they erred in thinking these fans would come to a subscription based MMO. They’ve seen the error of their ways and they are correcting it. A great future lies ahead for them and for the players.

 

The bottom line is that SWTOR will survive and prosper, and that’s all we wanted in the first place.

Huh ?

Did resources get removed since i last played ?

---

Originally posted by Voiidiin

Huh ?

Did resources get removed since i last played ?

---

You can gather resources either by collecting them in outer zones or sending companions on missions.

Running around and collect resources by yourself is not the only way, which I guess some people may have enjoyed but some find it tedious.