Trending Games | Elder Scrolls Online | WildStar | Star Wars: The Old Republic | Heroes of the Storm

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,643,610 Users Online:0
Games:681  Posts:6,077,322
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Everquest Next: Landmark Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » This genre is dead

42 Pages First « 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 » Last Search
839 posts found
  Amaranthar

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 2146

8/04/12 12:29:27 PM#461

Curiously I just went to The Bartle Test and it shows 8 of the last 10 are "Explorers".

I'd admit that that doesn't mean a whole lot, but I do think there are many gamers who do indeed want interesting game worlds and travel.

Disclaimer: my use of the term "travel" does not mean many minutes of nothing else, just empty movement. I only make this disclaimer because SOME posters here like to tell everyone else what I mean by the words I choose, causing many of threads to be derailed.

Once upon a time....

  Amaranthar

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 2146

8/04/12 12:35:48 PM#462
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by Amaranthar

"Players clearly aren't after that."

Prove that statement.

If they didn't want interaction, they wouldn't be playing games obviously!

 

We're talking about interaction with the game world.

Once upon a time....

  Trionicus

Novice Member

Joined: 1/31/12
Posts: 488

8/04/12 12:45:06 PM#463

Hate to say it but the ppls have a point. No one even wanted to admit swtor would go F2P in less than a year, seem to be all the same ppl saying that the genre isn't dead.

 

I'm pretty sure, while Bioware made have made an RPG, they forgot the MMO, and other games forget the RPG and only have half an MMO. This is just in general, there are some games around that are gems. Do not forget though, there is a real possibility that asain interests will dominiate, if they don't already, the multiplayer market space and leave us with nothin but korean grindfest MU online level 1-465 kill kill kills.

 

There are a lot of issues with MMORPG's, some that cannot be fixed through design. Players these days have less time to spend gaming. People in general gave less time to spend on anything other than work. Forcing game makers to consider the more accessible gaming route.

 

I don't think the genre is dead, maybe dying, and maybe it can make a comback but I don't know if the direction it's going is leading to the light or to the void.

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

8/04/12 12:52:36 PM#464
Originally posted by bunnyhopper

That is a shockingly poor comeback. You are simply arguing for arguings sake at this point (well for the past few pages in all honesty). 

I have "patched that gameplay" by making the movement through the game world interesting in the most natural and most intuitive way. As opposed to tacking on some crappy minigame.

When you are engaging with the game world (which is what I have been constantly advocating and have demonstrated how) then no, it is not "shallow". Travelling through interesting terrain, making you jump, sprint and dodge through it, making that matter. Travelling through dynamic areas with dynamic encounters. No, that is not "shallow". Not having ten extra buttons to press in order to move along does not make the system shallow.

 Frankly, thinking that ladling on extraneous hotbar movement "skills" or a minigame on top of the usual movement abilities will add more depth to a virtual world than actually improving said virtual world, is a bit of a #laughinggirls.jpg moment. 

Btw, saying the player should be actively engaged with the game world, saying that travel through it should matter as opposed to adding superflous button pressing minigames is quite, quite different from suggesting that "people do nothing for 15 minutes". 

I notice you are speaking for all players again. Good work.

If your suggestion involves gameplay on its own, without the outside world encounters, then it is a minigame. Whether or not it involves a hotbar is irrelevant, if it involves depth and mastery it's a minigame.  It's still not clear whether that actually was your suggestion, because you diluted it with the idea that dynamic world encounters would also help things -- and they'll help, but the gameplay of traveling itself is what the focus of the discussion is on because that's the giant hole in gameplay.

In fact the hotbar was never critical to what I'm suggesting, only that AFK traveling is solved, one way or another.  If travel becomes optional (fast travel) that's one solution.  If travel becomes deep, interesting gameplay, that's the other solution.  But allowing it to be this dead space of non-gameplay doesn't appeal to players because it forces them to deal with an uninteresting system at length (bad game design.)

So yeah...if you're fixated on my calling it a "minigame" or having a hotbar, you're arguing irrelevant points.  All that matters is the game doesnt' force significant periods of non-gameplay on players.  What matters is either limiting shallow gameplay (fast travel), or making gameplay deeper (deep travel.)  Anything else is an argument for shallow gameplay.

The only way I'm speaking for all players is by making the assumption that they're playing an interactive form of entertainment because they want interaction.  Not only a safe assumption, but an obvious conclusion.

  Amaranthar

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 2146

8/04/12 12:58:09 PM#465
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by Razeekster
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by Amaranthar
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
 

I always thought it would be neat if they made the mob vs. player experience feel more real. Like say running from mobs. You can do that now, but there's something unreal about it in most MMOs. You know that there's a way to do it to get away and you're not really worried. It would be nice to somehow add a more sense of realism to it by making you scared of that said mob's ability to catch you. Something to do with the AI maybe? I am not sure, I'm just throwing out an idea really,

Improving the AI would certainly be the best bet, not just ramping up things like hit points etc.  But I think the key thing is not to have static spawns, if you know the area and you know exactly where a mob will always be, then you can learn easy ways of killing them safely.

 

I quite like the idea of randomly spawn x mobs in an rough area (that makes sense, not just dumping any old spawn anywhere). When they spawn the mobs have a mob "rating". This group of mobs then dynamically roams about within a set radius. If within that set radius they encounter players, other "good npcs" or villages, they will attack them. Should the mobs defeat the "goodies" then the mobs rating increases. When this happens one of two things can occur:

 

Either other mobs within a set radius migrate to the higher score mobs and join forces.

Or the mob simply gets more mobs spawned in.

Either way the power and the size of the group increases as does their roam range. This carries on until they either wipe everything out or the players get together and wipe them out. Interestingly this means in the more dangerous, wilderness areas, you may get massively dangerous groups coming together and essentially launching attacks on safer land etc.

 

That or have GM lead monster run events, even allowing other players to jump into the role of the monsters for a bit within these events and have a bit of a rampage around.


I agree with the idea of AI. MOBs should have at least a basic ability to recognize some basic tacical circumstances like "losing this battle" and react by fleeing, or a tactical retreat.

I think this situation can also be greatly enhanced by the design of the MOBs, game world, and player capabilities. It would get too involved to try to spell it out, but basically I think evade maneuvers against faster MOBs while being chased could add a lot to game play and excitement. Also tactical choices like paralizing spells or special attacks or poisons, things that give a player a little bit of time to make some distance.

In this sense, I've always felt that "Escape Tactics" in all forms and circumstances should be given much more game play than simply Hit Button = Kill = Loot = Guaranteed Win.

I also am a strong proponent of randon encounters and wondering MOBs. There's a lot of leeway here, depending on the rest of the game and financing and all that.

Once upon a time....

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

8/04/12 1:00:56 PM#466
Originally posted by Amaranthar 
We're talking about interaction with the game world.

Don't see how the type of interaction matters.  Players could've chosen non-interactive entertainment, but didn't.  They want interaction.

Travel gameplay can involve any sort of interaction.  Interaction with the world (rough terrain slowing movement), interaction with the game (a hotbar to maximize speed), or interaction with other players (roads/rough terrain can be setup by other players.)

  JimmyYO

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/13/11
Posts: 519

8/04/12 1:12:36 PM#467
The concept of MMO's feeling like a world is dying for sure.
  Amaranthar

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 2146

8/04/12 1:14:55 PM#468
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by Amaranthar 
We're talking about interaction with the game world.

Don't see how the type of interaction matters.  Players could've chosen non-interactive entertainment, but didn't.  They want interaction.

Travel gameplay can involve any sort of interaction.  Interaction with the world (rough terrain slowing movement), interaction with the game (a hotbar to maximize speed), or interaction with other players (roads/rough terrain can be setup by other players.)


And diversity is critical, in my opinion. Diversity and random possibilities.

 

Once upon a time....

  User Deleted
8/04/12 1:18:29 PM#469
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by bunnyhopper

If your suggestion involves gameplay on its own, without the outside world encounters, then it is a minigame. Whether or not it involves a hotbar is irrelevant, if it involves depth and mastery it's a minigame.  It's still not clear whether that actually was your suggestion, because you diluted it with the idea that dynamic world encounters would also help things -- and they'll help, but the gameplay of traveling itself is what the focus of the discussion is on because that's the giant hole in gameplay.

In fact the hotbar was never critical to what I'm suggesting, only that AFK traveling is solved, one way or another.  If travel becomes optional (fast travel) that's one solution.  If travel becomes deep, interesting gameplay, that's the other solution.  But allowing it to be this dead space of non-gameplay doesn't appeal to players because it forces them to deal with an uninteresting system at length (bad game design.)

So yeah...if you're fixated on my calling it a "minigame" or having a hotbar, you're arguing irrelevant points.  All that matters is the game doesnt' force significant periods of non-gameplay on players.  What matters is either limiting shallow gameplay (fast travel), or making gameplay deeper (deep travel.)  Anything else is an argument for shallow gameplay.

The only way I'm speaking for all players is by making the assumption that they're playing an interactive form of entertainment because they want interaction.  Not only a safe assumption, but an obvious conclusion.

The interaction comes via engagement with the gaming world. Whether that is purely down to the player engaging with the game space, or via the player engaging with dynamic encounters and other players (or using the terrain to avoid said encounters). A good virtual world interlinks the two, makes the player think about and interact with the game world.

That is not a "minigame", nor does it require extraneous movement abilities or hotbar skills.

You can AFK travel if you like, but you will more then likely end up dead, either via falling foul of the game world (dropping off a cliff, slipping off an icy slope or drowning etc). Or by falling foul of dynamic npcs or players.

"Deeper travel" is best generated by engaging the player with the game world and the agents within it. Not by adding what will essentially be superfluous extra movement skills, or by skipping sections of the game world. That is what I have been repeatedly positing after orignally pointing out what a game world and travel through it can offer.

  Foomerang

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/10/05
Posts: 4294

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still

 
OP  8/04/12 1:21:21 PM#470


Originally posted by kartool

Originally posted by Foomerang  

Originally posted by bhug giant graphs and pie charts showing massive profit
  Thanks for that. However, this is about the genre in regards to the games themselves, not the money they generate. There is a difference. There are countless examples of things that have lost their soul and make crap tons of money.
So in other words it's about personal opinion and not any actual facts or data. Surprising.


Its about looking at what mmos were trying to be ten years ago and looking at what they are trying to be now.

If you thought the events were dynamic, you'll think the stories are living.

  Dominisi

Age of Conan Correspondent

Joined: 6/12/06
Posts: 85

True freedom only exists in abstract thinking.

8/04/12 2:39:18 PM#471

I agree with the OP.

Developers have basically turned single player games into multiplayer games and are the ones driving all of the content held within. 8-10 years ago when the community was much better than it is today content was made by the players (See sandbox MMOs) with minor content being put in by developers, this was the golden age of the concept.

Bring in the society of instant gratification and you have people who instead of being social require LFG/LFD tools so they don't have to talk to anybody, they can just press a button and go.

The problem is this is a society problem with entitlements etc and nobody wants to use their imagination or do any work themsleves. Its pathetic.

  Foomerang

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/10/05
Posts: 4294

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still

 
OP  8/04/12 2:43:47 PM#472


Originally posted by Dominisi
The problem is this is a society problem with entitlements etc and nobody wants to use their imagination or do any work themsleves. Its pathetic.

Its a double standard that exists not just in mmorpgs, but in social interaction in general these days.


If you thought the events were dynamic, you'll think the stories are living.

  kantseeme

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/07/09
Posts: 739

8/04/12 3:05:24 PM#473
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by bunnyhopper

That is a shockingly poor comeback. You are simply arguing for arguings sake at this point (well for the past few pages in all honesty). 

I have "patched that gameplay" by making the movement through the game world interesting in the most natural and most intuitive way. As opposed to tacking on some crappy minigame.

When you are engaging with the game world (which is what I have been constantly advocating and have demonstrated how) then no, it is not "shallow". Travelling through interesting terrain, making you jump, sprint and dodge through it, making that matter. Travelling through dynamic areas with dynamic encounters. No, that is not "shallow". Not having ten extra buttons to press in order to move along does not make the system shallow.

 Frankly, thinking that ladling on extraneous hotbar movement "skills" or a minigame on top of the usual movement abilities will add more depth to a virtual world than actually improving said virtual world, is a bit of a #laughinggirls.jpg moment. 

Btw, saying the player should be actively engaged with the game world, saying that travel through it should matter as opposed to adding superflous button pressing minigames is quite, quite different from suggesting that "people do nothing for 15 minutes". 

I notice you are speaking for all players again. Good work.

If your suggestion involves gameplay on its own, without the outside world encounters, then it is a minigame. Whether or not it involves a hotbar is irrelevant, if it involves depth and mastery it's a minigame.  It's still not clear whether that actually was your suggestion, because you diluted it with the idea that dynamic world encounters would also help things -- and they'll help, but the gameplay of traveling itself is what the focus of the discussion is on because that's the giant hole in gameplay.

In fact the hotbar was never critical to what I'm suggesting, only that AFK traveling is solved, one way or another.  If travel becomes optional (fast travel) that's one solution.  If travel becomes deep, interesting gameplay, that's the other solution.  But allowing it to be this dead space of non-gameplay doesn't appeal to players because it forces them to deal with an uninteresting system at length (bad game design.)

So yeah...if you're fixated on my calling it a "minigame" or having a hotbar, you're arguing irrelevant points.  All that matters is the game doesnt' force significant periods of non-gameplay on players.  What matters is either limiting shallow gameplay (fast travel), or making gameplay deeper (deep travel.)  Anything else is an argument for shallow gameplay.

The only way I'm speaking for all players is by making the assumption that they're playing an interactive form of entertainment because they want interaction.  Not only a safe assumption, but an obvious conclusion.

Traveling IS game play. To forsake it because some find it boring or tediaus is rediculous. Insta porting to places are killing these game worlds by taking people out of it plain and simple. If you cant spare  5 - 10 mins of travle time to get to a location then MMOs arent what you should be playing.

 

Dont care if you like what i have to say or not. Getting tired of these "give you everything now now now" MMOs. These games have be come nothing but pieces of shit lobby based co - op single player games. There not MMOs anymore. There not even RPGs anymore. If iv pissed you off oh well.

  Bladestrom

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 2732

8/04/12 3:20:09 PM#474
Travelling is gameplay and I enjoy it because it allows me to absorb myself in a game. Other don't like it, that's fine. Trying to tell someone that the thing they enjoy is impossible is just ignorance , stupidity, lack of social awareness and simply flawed.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (9500 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(850 elementalist)

Now playing GW2/vanilla wow

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

8/04/12 3:47:42 PM#475
Originally posted by Amaranthar


And diversity is critical, in my opinion. Diversity and random possibilities. 

Sure but even if travel is only deep in one of those ways it's not like the game isn't going to be deep in the other ways.  Travel's not the only game feature, it's just the shallowest one most in need of help.

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

8/04/12 4:04:52 PM#476
Originally posted by bunnyhopper

The interaction comes via engagement with the gaming world. Whether that is purely down to the player engaging with the game space, or via the player engaging with dynamic encounters and other players (or using the terrain to avoid said encounters). A good virtual world interlinks the two, makes the player think about and interact with the game world.

That is not a "minigame", nor does it require extraneous movement abilities or hotbar skills.

You can AFK travel if you like, but you will more then likely end up dead, either via falling foul of the game world (dropping off a cliff, slipping off an icy slope or drowning etc). Or by falling foul of dynamic npcs or players.

"Deeper travel" is best generated by engaging the player with the game world and the agents within it. Not by adding what will essentially be superfluous extra movement skills, or by skipping sections of the game world. That is what I have been repeatedly positing after orignally pointing out what a game world and travel through it can offer.

Ironically it's not a step in the right direction to point out that travel isn't actually AFKable.  It's psuedo-AFKable.  And that makes things worse.  Because you can't simply step away from the game and do something else.  No, you don't have that player freedom.  You're instead forced to sit there making virtually no interesting decisions.  It's even worse than if the activity was actually AFKable.

As long as the "engagement via the gaming world" you're talking about solves that psuedo-AFK situation, then that's a real solution.  Otherwise we end up with an EVE, DF, etc game where sure 1% of the time something dynamic happens, but the overwhelming majority of your travel time is utterly shallow non-gameplay.

So the engagement via the gaming world would need to be consistently deep/engaging system to actually address the problem.

 

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

8/04/12 4:10:02 PM#477
Originally posted by kantseeme

Traveling IS game play. To forsake it because some find it boring or tediaus is rediculous. Insta porting to places are killing these game worlds by taking people out of it plain and simple. If you cant spare  5 - 10 mins of travle time to get to a location then MMOs arent what you should be playing.

Dont care if you like what i have to say or not. Getting tired of these "give you everything now now now" MMOs. These games have be come nothing but pieces of shit lobby based co - op single player games. There not MMOs anymore. There not even RPGs anymore. If iv pissed you off oh well.

Gameplay is interesting decisions.

Watching your character's run animation while steering around mobs is only interesting to very new gamers, and quickly becomes old.  Because it's a very shallow game mechanic.  It's the Tic Tac Toe of MMORPGs.

You can pretend MMOs aren't what I should be playing, but the desires of players to engage in gameplay and not have their time thrown away by game developers are overwhelmingly changing how these games work to the way I prefer.

So you of all people should be in favor of the gameplay-in-travel idea I'm suggesting here -- because the inevitable alternative is instant travel everwhere!

Games which completely waste players' time with non-gameplay simply don't fly, and they'll always lose out in the end to games which are dense experiences involving deep, interesting decisions.  You'll still need optional downtime or "zen" activities, but none of those should be required activities unless you're building something super casual like FarmVille where the only point is to be a relaxation activity.

  Bladestrom

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 2732

8/04/12 4:18:59 PM#478
If people say they enjoy travelling then they enjoy it, you are being rude and ignorant and arrogant saying otherwise. I hate pvp arena but I'm self aware enough to know it is because it is because it does not suit my desires. Travel is fun for som, it's also a tiny part of any game. Stop trying to dictate to others what they should enjoy.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (9500 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(850 elementalist)

Now playing GW2/vanilla wow

  Vyeth

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/07
Posts: 1457

Celebrated pariah of MMORPG.com

8/04/12 4:22:02 PM#479

Hip hop is dead.. Classic action movies are dead.. Sidescrolling beat em ups are dead.. Michael Jackson, the king of pop, is dead.. 

MMORPG's, however, are not dead.. They have simply evolved.. Just like everything else in life that follows evolution cycles, you either adapt or perish..

  Desirsar

Novice Member

Joined: 11/20/06
Posts: 69

8/04/12 4:23:49 PM#480

The sad part is not that the original post is correct.

The sad part is that companies tried to make MMOs like this from 2000-2004 and they all failed, taking most of the actually good game concepts and licenses with them.  (Motor City Online, Auto Assault.)

42 Pages First « 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 » Last Search