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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » It's hardly the end of the subscription model.

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68 posts found

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 22588

8/04/12 2:51:19 AM#61
Originally posted by Sora2810
Originally posted by BloodyViking

I completely agree.


The failiure of the latest batch of MMO's to keep their subscribers is because;


1) Not enough grinding (you CAN make grinding fun)


2) Not enough social sidegames to keep people busy over time


3) Not complex enough character-development with a long timeframe

You sir; have crossed a good line.

It's about time someone believes you can make grinding fun.

He missed the most important part .. competition at the price of FREE.

Hard to keep subscribers when the player and can play for free by a click away.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/03/10
Posts: 175

8/04/12 3:44:13 AM#62

Of course subscription model will have it's place, simply because it's highly profitable. The amount of people hating blizzard for their greed can confirm that. But  like someone mentioned, P2P sets up a quality bar, that developers have to care about. You can't simply hype and then milk P2P players, TOR is perfect example what will happen if you do.

The future is one high quality P2P MMO title that gets that 15$ a month and few freebie mode F2P titles for more variety. Simply because one can't play seriously and long term a F2P title without spending crapload of money. The only working F2P modes are EvE/Tera like where you grind for 30 day game time and game is actually P2P. Otherwise there will always be some limitations(aka being inferior compared to paying players aka P2W) that you have to accept to play for free in F2P title.


And just to chime in on LOTRO/DDO, those games had substantial amount of so called life time members, which no longer paid monthly sub, yet were the most loyal customers. Best deal gamers can ever get, but worst one for company. So while LOTRO pre F2P population seemed healthy, the actual number of people that were still paying might have been much lower.



Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/15/12
Posts: 435

8/04/12 9:07:34 AM#63
Originally posted by crazynanny

The future is one high quality P2P MMO title that gets that 15$ a month and few freebie mode F2P titles for more variety. Simply because one can't play seriously and long term a F2P title without spending crapload of money. The only working F2P modes are EvE/Tera like where you grind for 30 day game time and game is actually P2P. Otherwise there will always be some limitations(aka being inferior compared to paying players aka P2W) that you have to accept to play for free in F2P title.

 More proof the vast majority of people that slam F2P games know nothing about them.

I have been playing F2P games for some 7 years now and I have yet to play a single one, many of them Asian and European games where I was not as powerful as everyone else at end game.

You can pay to win, but every game I have played you can only pay to win while leveling to end game...and if someone wants to drop a few $100 to get to max level a few days before me...more power to them because in the end I will get there and be on a level playing field.

As for your quality comment, its beyond laughable. Guild Wars is ranked as one of the top MMOs of all time and DDO isnt far from it...and I have yet to drop one single penny into DDO in over 2 years of playing.


Advanced Member

Joined: 11/08/08
Posts: 3069

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results.

8/04/12 9:32:03 AM#64
Originally posted by Humphrie

In closing, I'd like to once again praise EA for being such AMAZING and UPSTANDING citizens of the gaming world. There's nothing like seeing a company claim that 40% of the 700k(ish) or so people who had quit since launch stated that the 'subscription model' was the primary reason for canceling. First of all, that's an outright lie. Second of all, yeah, we all had an issue paying money for crap.[mod edit] So, in that sense, yes, of course all of us who quit had an 'issue' with the subscription model. I don't like subscriptions for bad games. Voila.

This a million times over  nobody wants to pay for bad game play.   However I think ea/bioware is blowing smoke up folk backside saying that folks hated to pay for the game. The real truth is folks don't want to pay for a bad game,  the real reasons are many and varied for different folks.   It is not a money related issue 15 bucks a month is nothing, most folks just don't like bad games, and the voted with their wallet.

However the lie that 40% of folks will come back to the game after free to play, that is a good one,  you got to fix the real reasons they left in the first place. If you don't fix those problems folks will come back and go "ugg they fixed nothing" then leave again.

This is just an act of desperation on EA/Bioware plate.   The other games like lotro that went free to play already had so much more to offer than swtor does.



Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/15/12
Posts: 435

8/04/12 9:38:59 AM#65
Originally posted by erictlewis

However the lie that 40% of folks will come back to the game after free to play, that is a good one,  you got to fix the real reasons they left in the first place. If you don't fix those problems folks will come back and go "ugg they fixed nothing" then leave again.

This is just an act of desperation on EA/Bioware plate.   The other games like lotro that went free to play already had so much more to offer than swtor does.


 I wouldnt call it a lie...I will be going back to do the stories thats for sure, and I am also sure that most Bioware fans will go back just for that reason as well. I know a decent portion of my guildmates will be going back to do the stories.

Hell, I paid for the damn game, the stories are great...if it doesnt cost anything I WILL GET MY MONEYS WORTH OUT OF THIS GAME...even if it isnt my MMOs money worth. But if Bioware is holding out hope that they are somehow going to get me to use their dont think so. Paytraps dont work on me...their going trap, and not actual F2P just proves to me they are disconnected from the consumers.

F2P players dont get "tricked" into subbing for a game that wasnt worth subbing in the first place, or spending a bunch of money to "unlock" the game...all it takes is one single look at how all the paytraps dont measure up to the playerbase of the F2P or the money those companies make on actual microtransactions.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/31/12
Posts: 36

8/04/12 9:47:20 AM#66

I don't agree with the OP.

Here's why:

1) Numerous analysts and developers have already come out and said it is.

2) The P2P model was a tough sell even during its inception (I still know many people whom refused to buy a game that's P2P from back in the UO days).

3) The success of WoW is more of a social phenomenum than an MMO success.  People subscribe to it because their friends do.  It's more like a paid sub to a social networking site.

4) Why do you think all these P2P models that were suffering found new success in F2P?  Because the games lacked a certain quality?  Please.  The games offer just as much as WoW does. 

5) The economy and other larger factors than game design (unemployment rate, reduced customer spending, etc).

TLDR: It's more of an economic issue than a design issue.  You need to look at the bigger picture.



Novice Member

Joined: 3/21/12
Posts: 241

8/04/12 10:11:10 AM#67

If the developers/publishers weren't foresighted enough to ensure that their payment model would continue to gain them revenue, then in my opinion, they have failed.

Most commonly this would be the P2P moving toward F2P, but it also might refer to a F2P game gradually becoming P2W over time.

Maybe the game stays around for awhile yet, but let's face it, a change in payment model in any MMO means that something is wrong enough that it wasn't worth paying for in the way they first intended.


Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/26/08
Posts: 2558

"Before I speak, I have something important to say."

8/04/12 5:22:42 PM#68
Originally posted by mcburly

I like how this post is just a big shot taken at TOR and how it has "failed" even though its still the second largest subbed MMO in the western market. lol fail..... sure.

All that SWTOR's switch to F2P proves is that this is definitely the future for mmos. Devs from numerous companies and many of the top voices in the industry have shared the same sentiment. SWTOR is a quality game, but WOW came out at the right time and cornered the sub market. The sub business model had to evolve for other games to compete and it has.

F2P IS the future and there really is no point in disputing that.... just too much evidence to back it up. It is a good thing too, this model forces devs to make good content worth paying for. Thats better than paying 15 bucks a month just to play a game cause lets face it most MMOs dont give us content each month for that 15 dollars.

(ps I personally guarantee RIFT, TSW, and TERA will all introduce a F2P option within the next 6 months. I also think WOW will open up a F2P option within the next year and TESO will be one of the first MMOs to launch B2P with a sub and no sub option.)

You may continue hating on games.

When your operating cost is begins to overtake your revenue than your game isn't doing well.  I don't care how many subs you have.  Despite popular belief games don't go F2P when they're doing well.

“There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
-- Herman Melville

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