Originally posted by lightningjac

Its because of gamers like the op we dont get mmos like in the good old days and get mmos like WoW.

Agreed, I too detected a bit of the "rush to the end" crowd in his post.

I think there is generation gap between people that grew up with the internet and those that did not and had to develop some patience.  The internet generation is used to getting everything they want instanteously and cannot fathom waiting a day or a week.

I cannot consider any of the new games to even remotely a grind.  While i agree the new games are over simplified and lack difficulty and complexity they are simply not a grind.  New MMOs take 2 days played  to rach Max level.  In AOC people were 80 a day after release.  In Rift it took 2 days.  ToR 2 days and I am sure people will be maxed in GW2 in 2 days.  There is no such thing as a level grind anymore.

I fondly remeber EQ1's 50-60 days played to max level.  Grinding an entire day and barely seeing ones xp bar even move.  The same with DAOC.  There were actual penalities for dying and poor play.  Peoples reputation mattered and most people actually possesed patience, team 1st attitudes an attention span, manners and etiquette.  Today's internet generation is all about me, me , me and getting what they want now.  Its almost like they are afraid to have downtime where they might actually have to think.  No offense to the OP or anyone else.  But it is very sad.

Originally posted by Derpybird

We have very different definitions of "grindy".

Truer words have never been spoken

OP - give me a break and go play something else - which whatever it is will be at least 10 times more grindy than GW2.

Better still - get into the habit of supporting your opinions with facts, or at least supportable observations.

Originally posted by Caliburn101

OP - give me a break and go play something else - which whatever it is will be at least 10 times more grindy than GW2.

Better still - get into the habit of supporting your opinions with facts, or at least supportable observations.

Well he did say "having to grind levels in order to unlock skills since skill slots are tied to levels" or something like that. If the content is not fun this will make your journey feel grindy.

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Caliburn101

OP - give me a break and go play something else - which whatever it is will be at least 10 times more grindy than GW2.

Better still - get into the habit of supporting your opinions with facts, or at least supportable observations.

Well he did say "having to grind levels in order to unlock skills since skill slots are tied to levels" or something like that. If the content is not fun this will make your journey feel grindy.

Using weapons as a matter of course to unlock skills, I'd venture, doesn't equate to "grinding" for those of us who've been around since EQ (and MUDS before it).   That's a wicked twisted definition, by any measure.  

If you don't like the way something plays, say that.  Don't try to twist another description to fit the fact you don't like something.

There's definitely the "entitlement" paradigm with this most recent generation of gamers, in almost every aspect.  Unfortunately, as Blizzard set the standard here, all companies will take as much of the "work" out of "achivement" as possible to generate and maintain revenue.   The problem is that once you set the precedent, it's almost impossible to break it.  All games going forward will need to have ways to avoid taking time to do something.  Sad, in a way, but c'est la vie.

It would've been interesting to watch them level, as others have mentioned, in the original EQ or AC or DAoC (at launch).   You had to walk everywhere in the first two and DAoC had a rapid transit horse system that was point A to point B.   Those games probably couldn't be as successful in a subscription model today as they were when they were the defacto standard.

This reminds me of that t-shirt... "I want it all and I want it delivered".

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Caliburn101

OP - give me a break and go play something else - which whatever it is will be at least 10 times more grindy than GW2.

Better still - get into the habit of supporting your opinions with facts, or at least supportable observations.

Well he did say "having to grind levels in order to unlock skills since skill slots are tied to levels" or something like that. If the content is not fun this will make your journey feel grindy.

Bending the definition of 'grind' until it breaks doesn't constitute the basis for a supportable observation.

Abilities gradually unlocking as you play through engaging and entertaining content is not grind - no matter how transparently bias your point of view.

I see some lack of evidence in certain rabid fan posts about GW2, but I see far more posts flaming the game with not one line of credible support. Voicing and unsupported opinion may be some people's favourite pastime, but exalting or denegrating something without backing up what you are saying with something more concrete than 'imo' is fully deserving of being shot down.

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Caliburn101

OP - give me a break and go play something else - which whatever it is will be at least 10 times more grindy than GW2.

Better still - get into the habit of supporting your opinions with facts, or at least supportable observations.

Well he did say "having to grind levels in order to unlock skills since skill slots are tied to levels" or something like that. If the content is not fun this will make your journey feel grindy.

What game give ALL at lvl 1?

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Caliburn101

OP - give me a break and go play something else - which whatever it is will be at least 10 times more grindy than GW2.

Better still - get into the habit of supporting your opinions with facts, or at least supportable observations.

Well he did say "having to grind levels in order to unlock skills since skill slots are tied to levels" or something like that. If the content is not fun this will make your journey feel grindy.

You unlock all your skill slots by level 30. It's a level 80 cap game. You unlock skills with skill points. Yes, you earn skill points leveling, but you can also earn them doing any of the over 230 Skill Point Challenges in the game. It may take a while to unlock every single skill, but you don't need every skill to maintain a number of player preferred builds.

Besides, this is a game where the design intends you to play the game for fun, not as some grind to get to the level cap where some new form of game play begins. In most MMOs, that's where the real grind begins.

This is the least grindy MMO I can think of, which makes the accusation of grindiness extremely ridiculous.

Originally posted by GrumpyCharr

I feel the exact opposite.  Opposite meaning, there's no grind at all ... I just go into the world and do stuff - and there's a lot of it to do.  In the process of doing stuff, my character progresses.

this guy kinda ended the topic here.

This game is much less "grindy" then TERA, AION and lineage 2. This for the simple reason you get exp for pretty much EVERYTHING you can do, so you dont have to grind to lvl up.. are you bored of WvWvW ? go make some crafts, are you bored of crafting? go play your story.. and this list keeps going for a while.

I think he played wow and dinged 85 in 4 days without leaving the main city.

Press keybind i

Wait for queue

Accept

Complete dungeon

Dinged 4 levels

Rinse and repeat

GW2 i never ever had a feeling or need to watch my level, for the 1st time playing an mmo i had that feeling my level dint matter much.

Was busy exploring, something i dint see in the past 8 years and wanted to do.

Then again some people want to ding max level in 8 hours without seeing the game and all it has to offer.

Originally posted by Honner

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Caliburn101

OP - give me a break and go play something else - which whatever it is will be at least 10 times more grindy than GW2.

Better still - get into the habit of supporting your opinions with facts, or at least supportable observations.

Well he did say "having to grind levels in order to unlock skills since skill slots are tied to levels" or something like that. If the content is not fun this will make your journey feel grindy.

What game give ALL at lvl 1?

That's what I was wondering.  MMOs are all like this, this isn't a fighting game where you start out with every move available.

There are 80 levels and by the time you're 50, you could have learned most of the skills in the game depending on if you search out the skill point challenges.  The real grind is in a traditional MMO like WoW where it doesn't matter how good you are or what level area you challenge yourself with, you are still grinding until max level for that final skill to complete your bar, and even worse, in almost all MMOs other than GW2, the last skills - the ones that take you weeks to get - are usually the most powerful and/or coolest abilities available.  GW2 at least gives you the choice to get those skills early and not be restricted by level.

MMOExposed is entitled to his opinion of what grindy is, sure, but almost no one is going to agree with him.

I think this guys simply need more action. The reason why he don't like PVE is that it has not enough "action".

The answers kindda "If you don't like grinds, don't play MMOs. " are also wrong. I played Lineage 2, after Aion, so I know what really means grind. To spend 2-3 days for first profession getting that 3 Gemsones is onthing comparable with Aion. And even about Aion people told that it's grindy. So if you don't like PVE, you don't like bery bery big part of the game and this is not fault of game, that this is not interesting for you. As you can see in forum people are not agree with you, so it means that you are not usual man, most of people are happy. So if you don't like PVE it's only your specific problem, try to understand why. Try to play Lineage 2 and after the world for you will be totally different.

I think also some people will be always not happy. 

Originally posted by Hiperzone

lol this post is.....

to be honest the leveling should be slower, this game is about the journey, im sick tired of games reducing leveling times and other stuff to please people that either dont like the nature of mmos or just dont want to play enough.

As long im having fun, i could care less if a damn level takes 1 hour or 2 hours. For god sake, when WoW launched it took 4 hours everage just to reach level 10. 

The pacing felt good and i actualy enjoyed every zone. NOW? most of zones are skiped for about 50% of their content because people outlevel them too fast.

Next time someone is going to complain that there isnt much to do once at level cap, go figure. MMORPGS used to be about the jorney before this rush to "end game" crap that somehow got into teens limited brain waves.

this^^