Originally posted by BadSpock

My biggest concern is that I still am not 100% on what Race I want my main to be.

Human or Asura... human or Asura...

Female human or Male Asura...

I like the human zones and "theme" better than Asura, but the Asura animations and just... presence is so damned fun!

 ROFL....You have the exact same problem as me and I thought I was the only person with this dilemma. I now feel so much better knowing I am not going to be alone and spend 5 hours when I'm creating my character once the game goes live until I enter the game with my Female Human or Male Asuraian...LOL decisions, decisions, decisions...

My biggest concern is that any game I start now suck badly for me.

And I just wanted to help them do a stress test yesterday, I knew what was gonna happen and I still played again. Now it's pain untill 25th.

Now about stuff you posted.

While most of those things migh be problematic we will have to spend good amount of hours in game to see if they really are.

Since we only have to pay box price my guess is by the time we get to those problems we will get what we paid for so after that any of us can just drop game for some time and get back to it without thinking about paying sub of buying game time cards.

That alone is good reason not to be worried IMO.

About gear in sPVP I can see that beeing problem for someone but for me it's great that I know everyone is on same level there, at least gear-wise. It will be shame that I can't show off  my new shiny piece of gear, but knowing that I won't be killed because someone has lot more time on their hands to grind for better gear is enough for me.

Originally posted by Shroom_Mage

If someone thinks cosmetic progression won't work, they've never seen TF2.

Trading for the weapons you want? Weapons drop like rain, and you can trade almost any of them 1-to-1. The only valued ones are cosmetic reskins.

Getting the cosmetic hat you want? Those are pretty expensive and highly sought. People will play for months to earn the metal they can trade for one, and once they get it, they quickly see another they want.

And here's the kicker. In any match, the only player that cannot see a hat is the one wearing it. People go crazy over cosmetic items that they can't even see.

Trust me, it'll work in GW2.

I agree as long as you enjoy the combat and enjoy the pvp maps and the DEs in PVE I don't see why cosmetic gear progression won't interest people. I know it interests me a lot. Also looking at how dungeons are setup they are more about exploration and teamwork allowing you to enjoy them in there 4 modes aside from just running them over and over and over the same way all the time just to hope you get that ultra rare gear drop. It's a differn't game and won't be for everyone but certainly for people who are tired of the same old wow style gear grind endgame we have seen over the past decade.

Originally posted by MikeJezZ

I know many, who - like me - can't wait to see Guild Wars 2 arrives. I also know some, who says the game will be boring after a month or so - both people who does and does not look forward to the game. And no matter how much I love Guild Wars 2, I can see what is lurking in the shadows:

 

• No progression - I like the idea to log in for just having fun, but is that enough? We love to hunt down new and better rewards, but Guild Wars 2 do not have them at all. They are pure cosmetic. What will keep the flame in this game?
• Heavy PvP oriented - I prefer playing PvP. PvE is normally not my cup of tea. However GW2 PvE felt refreshing and fun. But normally, a PvP game dies slowly - for some reason people prefer PvE. and I fear that this will be a big fail later on.
• Some cash-shop restrictions - I understand, that ANet should earn money. While I think it's allright they charge for non-beneficial stuff, I think its a little unfair, we might need to get charged to buy extra character slots than just the 5 standard slots.
• Splitted character development - You level in PvE and get gear you can use in PvE and WvW - but you lose it to some specified armor in the mists. It removes the personality you gave your character.

 

I really dont hope that the game will fail to any of this. But it will surely be weird to not go for any gear progression and just pure cosmetic looks. And as the fun should rewarding enough itself - would it be enough to keep us occupied in Guild Wars 2?

Fair enough concerns. Allow me to address them a bit:

- Progression. There actually is a good amount of progression in this game. You're right, it is based mostly around cosmetics, once you finish the traits / lvling progression. If you are someone who has never seen this in action, then there's nothing really that can be said. You will just have to wait and see for yourself. However, many of us know that a cosmetic-based progression most definitely can work. Hell, GW1 still has people grinding for various cosmetics to this day. Anet is really good at constantly adding new shinies that people want to obtain (even if they offer no power advantage). Never underestimate the power of looking badass.

- Heavy PvP oriented. I see this a lot. Part of this comes from hardcore PvPers who don't care about PvE. Part of this comes from misguided PvErs who don't understand the PvE in this game. A lot of it comes from people who are just parroting what they hear others say. I'll say this: It's just not true. This game actually has a really healthy mix of PvP and PvE content. What's great about the PvE content in this game, is that it never gets irrelevant. You are free to do whatever content you find fun in the game. There's also a lot of PvE in this game that mimicks what you'd see in WvW. So there are a lot of events centered around conquest. Defending villages / marching on enemy encampments / capturing & securing strategic areas on the map. There's a lot of replay value there for the non-PvPer. And that's not even getting into the dungeons.

- Cash shop restrictions. This may seem like a big deal to some. I'll just point this out. You don't need to spend any money to use the cash shop. You can buy it w/ ingame gold if you want. There are some people working on putting out video guides on how to work the economy in GW2, as well. This game makes it insanely easy to make money if you use your brain a little bit. I'm actually planning on buying a lot of the upgrades using in-game gold for gems, instead of real money. I will cought up some dollars for extra character slots, though, just to reserve my names asap.

- Splitting character development. I can see what you mean. However, this is only really an issue until you get to 80. I think all the armor skins u can get from pve you can get from pvp, and visa versa. You can also transmute skins of cool armor you get in PvP onto lower gear if you wanted to do that. There is some synergy there.

Originally posted by otinanai123

Originally posted by Nefera

I'll throw in a quick comment regarding the progression in terms of cosmetic rewars (cooler looking stuff).

 

It worked just fine for most people in GW1. Max level was 20, which you could reach in 5-8 hours if you tried, there was no progression in terms of power at all after that. Still, people spent hundreds or thousands of hours in game, when for vast majority of time in game, there was absolutely no progression other than cosmetic items. Some of those cosmetic items even sold for huge amounts of in game cash (crystalline sword, anyone?)! I can't see a reason why this wouldn't work in GW2.

The big question is how many people of those who played GW1 actually stuck with it?

 

If 2 million buy GW2 but only 10% like the "endgame" and stick with it for more than a 2-3 months, would that be a success?

Don't think they've ever released actual concurrent player numbers, however based on pure observation and estimation by the number of people around and instances of major cities in each of the servers, the retention rate is definitely way more than 10% after a few months in, even a few years in.  I'm fairly certain the main thing that drove people away from the original game wasn't cosmetic progression at end-game.  Also bear in mind that cosmetic progression wasn't the only endgame activity in GW1, nor will it be the only activity in GW2, hence the ones not interested by cosmetic gear still have other things they can do.

My point was that you can't just dismiss cosmetic progression as valid endgame content, because we can already see it being successful in both GW1, and loads of other games.

Originally posted by MikeJezZ
@adzija, what about using your pve gear in pvp as cosmetic? Omg all start read replies pls :P

I have read it :)

I would love that too but as it is now we won't have it.

Just wanted to say that for me I can live with that because all will be starting equal gear-wise in there. If there was a way to bring the look of your PVE gear in sPVP and get same stats as usuall that would be awesome but we will not see that at launch I think (not 100% sure).

That aside it is a good idea and would make grinding for that cosmetic piece even more worth for lot of players.

Originally posted by Chrisbox
My mind is telling me that the progression and "endgame" will cause an exodus, but I REALLLLLY hope not.  I want this game to last a very long time, but we wont know until we have it and see high level content. 

On the other hand, Exodus doesnt matter. In the B2P model, the money is already made. Servers are merged easily for lower costs and healthy population. And with the next expansions for 50 bucks the achievers are back again.

Originally posted by UsulDaNeriak

Originally posted by Aelious

Some people still won't like it but I think skeptics willing to give it a try will be surprised.

since 10 years

- i am always sceptical

- i always give it a trial

- and i never was surprised

 

You mean TOR, TSW, Diablo 3, etc fanboys were proven to consist of idiots? Yeah, that sounds about right.

I'm a sceptic and would love to be proven wrong after about two months after relase (after the honeymoon period is over)

Originally posted by FelixMajor

I really, and I mean really have no freaking idea how anyone can say GW2 has no progression.  You progress the same as any other RPG type game; levels, skill tree, gear.

 

As for OP, you say gear is cosmetic?  Gear has stats, and while the game doesn't revolve around grinding dungeons and mobs for certain gear, or grinding like a mofo to get the tier of gear you need/want for pvp you get a straight up equal opportunity to fight a fair match against everyone else.

 

There is still that special gear and those special items out there you can get by grinding points, karma gear, and whatever the pvp point system is.

 

The most confusing thing the OP says is the game us fun, but is logging in to have fun enough?  Bwahaha, wtf?  I'm pretty sure we all play video games to entertain ourselves and have fun, right?

 

So if you are having fun, what else matters?  PFfssahhhthhs, unlike many other mmo's where the "real fun starts at level cap".  OR, "I just need to get this last set of gear and I'll be good to go".  Lawl.....fuckin chump.

+1

srry i had to do it :P

Originally posted by UsulDaNeriak

Originally posted by Aelious

Some people still won't like it but I think skeptics willing to give it a try will be surprised.

since 10 years

- i am always sceptical

- i always give it a trial

- and i never was surprised

 

sounds like a self-fulfilling prophecy to me

Originally posted by Nefera

My point was that you can't just dismiss cosmetic progression as valid endgame content, because we can already see it being successful in both GW1, and loads of other games.

Can you give me names of those other games? BTW there aren't many players left in GW1 and their numbers would be even lower if there was no HoM and rewards for GW2. It only proves that a very small minority likes that kind of endgame.

Originally posted by otinanai123

Originally posted by Nefera

My point was that you can't just dismiss cosmetic progression as valid endgame content, because we can already see it being successful in both GW1, and loads of other games.

Can you give me names of those other games? BTW there aren't many players left in GW1 and their numbers would be even lower if there was no HoM and rewards for GW2. It only proves that a very small minority likes that kind of endgame.

Team Fortress 2 and it's hats.  There are no stats for hats (save for "set" hats that were introduced nearly 1yr after plain hats).  But people still go ga-ga over those hats.   Trust me, ##'s games are stupid...but playing dress up with the gear that makes you look super bad-ass is where it's at.

Originally posted by Siphaed

Originally posted by otinanai123

Originally posted by Nefera

My point was that you can't just dismiss cosmetic progression as valid endgame content, because we can already see it being successful in both GW1, and loads of other games.

Can you give me names of those other games? BTW there aren't many players left in GW1 and their numbers would be even lower if there was no HoM and rewards for GW2. It only proves that a very small minority likes that kind of endgame.

Team Fortress 2 and it's hats.  There are no stats for hats (save for "set" hats that were introduced nearly 1yr after plain hats).  But people still go ga-ga over those hats.   Trust me, ##'s games are stupid...but playing dress up with the gear that makes you look super bad-ass is where it's at.

It isn't an MMO tho. People also played counter-strike which had no rewards at all. FPSs are different.

Originally posted by otinanai123

Originally posted by Siphaed

Originally posted by otinanai123

Originally posted by Nefera

My point was that you can't just dismiss cosmetic progression as valid endgame content, because we can already see it being successful in both GW1, and loads of other games.

Can you give me names of those other games? BTW there aren't many players left in GW1 and their numbers would be even lower if there was no HoM and rewards for GW2. It only proves that a very small minority likes that kind of endgame.

Team Fortress 2 and it's hats.  There are no stats for hats (save for "set" hats that were introduced nearly 1yr after plain hats).  But people still go ga-ga over those hats.   Trust me, ##'s games are stupid...but playing dress up with the gear that makes you look super bad-ass is where it's at.

It isn't an MMO tho. People also played counter-strike which had no rewards at all. FPSs are different.

how so? people played because PVP is fun. If an MMO can do the same why would people not stick around just to enjoy PVP as they do in FPS?

There are differences between the item quality ranks of level 80 gear, and it isn't all just cosmetic.  The difference between level 80 Rare and Exotic item can be seen below:

http://i.imgur.com/QKpks.jpg

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Originally posted by UsulDaNeriak

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Originally posted by Chrisbox My mind is telling me that the progression and "endgame" will cause an exodus, but I REALLLLLY hope not.  I want this game to last a very long time, but we wont know until we have it and see high level content. 

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On the other hand, Exodus doesnt matter. In the B2P model, the money is already made. Servers are merged easily for lower costs and healthy population. And with the next expansions for 50 bucks the achievers are back again.

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If someone gets bored after a couple months and leaves GW2 to play something else and then later returns for an expansion only to be bored even faster will he be back for the next expansion?

Active server population is going to matter a lot in GW2. And server merges are the Death Knell to MMOs.