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News & Features Discussion  » Star Wars: The Old Republic: F2P: How Soon Is Too Soon?

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64 posts found
  ZigZags

Novice Member

Joined: 9/23/10
Posts: 335

8/03/12 12:06:56 AM#41
If the game's orginial business model wasn't f2p...then there is no "time", its a fail. The Acronym f2p should be known as "Fail 2 perform" henceforth. 

Now: Skyrim
Later: ?
Played: M59, UO, EQ, Runescape, DAOC, SB, EQ2, WoW, EVE, Darkfall, AoC, FFXI, FFXIV, WAR, SWTOR
BOYCOTTING: EA/BioWare/Origin/SOE

  hawok01

Novice Member

Joined: 9/27/09
Posts: 2

8/03/12 12:21:47 AM#42
Originally posted by Ryowulf
Originally posted by jeremyjodes

I hate to be the debbie downer of the forums. but F2P won't save this game. I predict by end of 2012 and the latest march 2013 this game will be shut-down or in maintence mode. It's just that bad. unless they overhaul the pathetic engine and start taking this thing off the rails it will keep sinking regardless of payment model. Thats about it for my opinion on TOR.


I agree. If people play this game it will be for the personal story. Assuming they can play that out without paying, then where isn't anything all that interesting to make them want to sub.

I doubt they will bring out anymore voiced personal quests arcs, unless they are all ready mostly done. No point in throwing good money after bad. So what quests will people miss out on after 50?

^This.

+Locking operations for f2p is a terible idea. Unless there will be unlock of somesort in store its another reason to play the story and leave.

  jbombard

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/06/08
Posts: 461

8/03/12 2:53:32 AM#43
If they couldn't roll out content fast enough to keep people interested when everyone was paying them $15 a month, I'm very skeptical about them being able to roll out content fast enough to keep people interested when nobody is paying them.  The whole reason that they failed was there inability to provide value to their customers and release content quick enough and of high enough quality to keep their subscribers paying.  Switching to F2P isn't going to fix that fundamental problem, because if can't do that people won't be interested long enough to stay and pay.
  Reklaw

Elite Member

Joined: 1/07/06
Posts: 6153

The adult I am takes care of most things real life. However my inner-child is a GAMER!!

8/03/12 5:44:45 AM#44
Originally posted by jbombard
If they couldn't roll out content fast enough to keep people interested when everyone was paying them $15 a month, I'm very skeptical about them being able to roll out content fast enough to keep people interested when nobody is paying them.  The whole reason that they failed was there inability to provide value to their customers and release content quick enough and of high enough quality to keep their subscribers paying.  Switching to F2P isn't going to fix that fundamental problem, because if can't do that people won't be interested long enough to stay and pay.

Content as in combat oriented combat will never be fast enough. It's really time for games that call themselfs MMORPG to become MMORPG's and not just story driven online co-op combat games.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

8/03/12 5:52:38 AM#45

I'd say, from the level of bitterness appearing inevitably in any thread regarding this title, that it's definitely still too soon.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  EmeraldFox01

Novice Member

Joined: 6/05/12
Posts: 9

8/03/12 5:58:04 AM#46
Personally I gotta agree with this article.  More and more games are going free to play and drawing in a lot more gamers than sub games.  and with that more of a market with there cash markets.  I can definatly see this is the way the mmo market will go in the future.  Just a pity blizzard wont get on the bandwagon with warcraft or ccp corp with eve online
  Illyssia

Novice Member

Joined: 8/10/09
Posts: 1523

8/03/12 6:35:43 AM#47
I think EA/Bioware made the right choice and the timing is about right. Times they are a changing in the MMO market. Blizzard has for axample lost over a million subs in a couple of months now, so the sub model doesn't seem to be working anymore. 
  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6908

8/03/12 6:38:53 AM#48

From the business perspective, sooner the better. Once you rack up money from initial box sales, purchase and subscription fees become a burden only.

  Mariner-80

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/02/07
Posts: 345

8/03/12 9:40:31 AM#49

DDO, one of the earliest conversions from Sub-based to F2P, also has one of the best F2P models I've come across: the purchase of adventure packs on a pay-as-you-go basis and class/race unlocks.

 

I'm leery of SWTOR's conversion to F2P, as it looks (correct me if I'm wrong!) like some really basic things that make the game fun -- multiple character slots, quick travel, GTA (AH) usage, bage space -- are going to be adversely impacted if you choose F2P. That kind of a scheme will not bring me back to SWTOR.

 

I guess if I'm going to spend money in a F2P game, I want it to be for account-wide unlocks of large chunks of the whole game. I don't want to have to haggle and pick and choose among basic necessities. This is why GW2's system is so attractive and why I generally favor a B2P scheme over most F2P shemes I've encountered.

 

Sadly, I didn't really like the game itself all that well, but the business model, it was particularly good, I thought. My hope is that the upcoming Neverwinter  will be based on a similar F2P business model -- but ALSO just be a much better game.

  Mariner-80

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/02/07
Posts: 345

8/03/12 9:42:36 AM#50
Correction:  "Sadly, I didn't really like DDO itself all that well, ..."
  uncletoma

Novice Member

Joined: 7/28/03
Posts: 158

8/03/12 2:38:34 PM#51

Bill, u wrote: "I actually find SWTOR to be a perfectly fun theme-park MMO."

Well, IMHO the BIG SW:TOR problem is in your words: another themepark MMO. How many are they? Around 80/90% on the full gamelist here? And if u need to create a blockbuster, really doing a game that is the same of thousends is the best way? Sometime being different can be a good idea.

  rdrakken

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/15/12
Posts: 435

8/03/12 3:02:22 PM#52

For a western company, any time is too late. There is only ONE title that went from Subscription to ACTUAL F2P and that was DDO.

Every single other title has gone PAYTRAP, which is not F2P which is why NOT ONE SINGLE PAYTRAP game has made NEAR what the big F2P games have made. Its all half-assed, half-hearted BS...they dont even do the F2P shops right.

F2P players wont fall into the paytrap of subscribing to a game to unlock everything, it defeats the entire PURPOSE of playing a F2P game and developers are DELUSIONAL to think they will get more money from tricking a few 10 thousand people to subscribe to their already failed subscription based game.

These companies missed their mark with a subscription only to miss it again by targetting F2P players with a sub-trap model. Well, stupid is what stupid does.

  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1227

8/03/12 3:17:33 PM#53

"Just as DCUO thrived far better as a F2P offering, so too will SWTOR in the long run."

Pretty sure that there is no evidence of DCUO thriving as f2p; more people initially for sure but subsequently - after the next game goes f2p and the one after. No evidence that SWTOR will either - and it was clearly not designed to be f2p (EA spoke at length about how it was subs that were critixal and how the team would be kept on etc.).

Zynga's results are clear evidence that f2p is not a sure thing; lots of people play and don't pay. And, imo, SWTOR's biggest asset - the class stories - will be free.

  Sourd420

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/10
Posts: 66

8/03/12 3:20:03 PM#54
Called this back in Beta.
  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5670

8/03/12 4:46:09 PM#55

"I don’t think SWTOR’s F2P transition is too soon. I personally think it couldn’t come soon enough. Just as DCUO thrived far better as a F2P offering, so too will SWTOR in the long run. What I’d rather see though? I’d like to see games start releasing that give us a reason to subscribe every month. And if they cannot do that, when there are so many options on the market, I’d like to see them have the courage to launch from the gate as F2P, and let us decide when and how we want to give you our money. If you give us a reason to, most of us will gladly pony up."

This paragraph about sums it up for me.  I really wish they would have gone F2P from the start and I also wish more more games would launch this way.  Part of the problem is the insane development costs and the primary focus on revenue generation, but another part of the problem is with us, the "Western" gaming community, and spouting our religous rules about business models and game design morality.  Instead of just playing and supporting a game for what it is we analyze it down to the finest detail abandoning the game if it doesn't meet this crazy laundry list of expectations.

I agree with Tardcore in the previous post.  We need to stop treating every new launch like the coming of Jesus only to be bitterly disappointed.  In that same vein we also need to stop expecting miracles out of our entertainment.

We should encourage companies to offer their games F2P from the start.  Just think, we could try a game and then support it if it suits us.  There would be less incentive for companies to hype and bullshit us trying to get us to buy up front and more of an incentive to create a fun game that keeps us playing.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  azmundai

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/18/10
Posts: 1424

8/03/12 4:49:11 PM#56

9000 .... years is too soon. imo

LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  Radar11x

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/09/07
Posts: 116

Pull the green cord...

8/04/12 2:34:51 AM#57
I think if they had started SWTOR from the ground up as a free to play instead of going with a sub base model, which was already showing signs of failing years before the game had come out, they would have been better off. Now I see that ESO may be making the same mistake, but they still have time to change it up during development before they put it on the market.
  Ecnali

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/03/11
Posts: 48

8/04/12 6:48:40 AM#58
I would much rather play SWG over SWTOR any day F2P.  Who knows what underhanded deals were cut among Lucas Arts, EA, Bioware and SOE.my feeling is that LA made out like a bandit, EA probably also came out ahead, followed by SOE. Leaving Bioware to holding the bag, and thousands of SWG fans were thrown out with the bath water. Now there are tens of thousands of SWTOR fans who, for some reason I don't understand, it's true, there actually are people out their who enjoy SWTOR - but perhaps they might have to consider that F2P is the first death knoll for their game. I hope not - I wouldn't want others to have to go through process of losing their beloved game. Although, perhaps SWTOR fans rent nearly as fanatical as us SWG fans. But maybe F2P isn't a death knoll; look at LOTRO - that game is lots of fun and f2p seems to have improved it. Ultimately, it just seems that the fans and/or paying customers are the ones that lose in these business deal shenanigans.
  wrightstuf

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/09
Posts: 711

8/05/12 12:55:38 PM#59
going ftp the day after release as a sub based MMO would be too soon
  Konfess

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/10/07
Posts: 701

8/05/12 7:21:00 PM#60

Why Doesn't MMORPG get rid of all these Ads and go F2Read?  If what you write is good, I'm sure somebody will pay for it.  Shoe doesn’t fit so well on the other foot does it?  Everyone expects to get paid for their services.  The problem with F2P is that so many people think it really means they get to play absolutely free and nobody has to pay.

You have the players that whine about P2W ruining their PvP.  They will only tolerate “Vanity” items being sold on the cash shop, knowing full well they will never buy any “Vanity” item or anything off the cash shop.  Well I say right next to those “Vanity” items should be PvP.  Oh you can be flagged for PvP for free on a F2P game, but you can’t fight back unless you buy a month worth of PvP time.  If buying all these PvP options ala cart is getting too expensive, then get it all for a monthly sub.

Now I am not saying that SWTOR is a quality product or that  consumers should not expect quality from devs and pubs.  SWTOR was a B or B- product that should be developed into a A product.  Players should be expected to pay for A quality products.  Players should also expect to try a product for free to determine if it is a quality product.

Pardon any spelling errors
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