Originally posted by Mylan12

Originally posted by Sorrow

I think part of the issue is we have gotten way better at playing games we now fly thru content, honestly the only solution is EQ style mega guild raid zones but seems no developers even wanna touch that

 I not played this game except in beta but  EQ had the same content problems early on. I remember only having the two dragons to kill for raid content in EQ and everyone hoping that the server would crash so that we get a respawn. It was a while before Fear and Hate raid zones came out.  The thing being that there was little else around to play so early on at least people stuck with EQ and waited for new content. Now days after a few days they jump on to a new game. 

The Thing about EQ1 was that it took you a lot longer to level to max level to hit those raids.  It took me almost a year to hit max level in EQ1, playing daily like I still do with games today but today in a year, I have easly done everything the "Next Gen" games have to offer.   2 years into EQ1 and I still had place to explorer even just because I never been there.

I agree, most look at old games like EQ1, UO with rose colored glasses but the journey in both UO and EQ1 where worth the time, the same cannot be said for today's games.

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by Tabloid42

Originally posted by BadSpock

 

If Anet can pull it off, it will change the idea of PvE endgame forever.

 

Pardon my 'not in the know' but what is this awesome endgame mechanic you speak of?  This is for GW2? I am always interested in new mechanics to shake up the mold. I would like to know Why it would be such a game changer and immune to the hardcore speed players?

My question here is, what past Sandbox game met your requirments where you can play indefinitely and why?  ( EveONline is the only one that I played that comes to mind, constant territory fighitng and resource wars).

Now what Thempark game in the past has never had the exact same 'I finished all the content and now I am bored" argument posed by the hardcore?  I can't think of any.

I played UO forever because there was no "grind" and no objectives just... fun. Which is funny someone else in this thread said GW2 "had no objectives" and I don't see that as a bad thing - I get to set my own objectives.

SWG was a terrible sandbox IMO it was all grind all grind all grind, and I think EvE is the same - especially in PvE.

The constant resource/territory wars in EvE is all PvP and I despise the PvP in EvE because it is far, far too focused on gear, stats, and CC (which all equates to how much $ you have and how long you've been playing) and I hate their concept of "balance" in that a large ship has nothing to fear from even an entire fleet of small ships, because the small ship can't do any damage to the big ship and the big ship can't hit the small ship...

No themepark has ever had "end-game" that wasn't about content consumption.

The "new" twist GW2 is putting on PvE end-game is a series of high (max) level zones where the players are in a unified fight against a persistent, unified NPC army in a back and forth game of territorial control and resource acquisition.

If players don't fight or don't fight well, they lose ground, if they win they gain ground, but they can just as easily lose it.

So in that sense it's like WvW but against the AI.

Will it work? No one knows. It might be too easy and it'll end up just being a "let's zerg everything, "win", then allow the zones to reset and do it again."

But I hope Anet has turned the dials enough and can make adjustments on the fly to keep it dynamic and engaging.

But it is a "new" mechanic - the closest thing I can recall is Tabula Rasa where the Bane would take control of territory and fight the players in a global game of territorial capture, but TR really fell short and the players complained that it interfered too much with their quest grind... so dumb...

Well GW2 doesn't have a quest grind and the 3 mega zones of Orr don't contain any "quests" or anything except massive multi-chain events that all lead to / branch from the concept of territorial capture/control against the AI.

Ok.. There are no faction in GW2 you are always united!

So you are telling me a PvE zone with quest mobs and capture point objective is... um a twist? 

Idk man these dudes at NCsoft/Anet are some real spin doctors.

NCsoft/Anet - "End game starts at level 1" - 

mmorpg fans - wtf Anet no endgame?

NCsoft/Anet - There is an endgame! it's a PvE zone with capture objectives and you must fight off the NPCs!

GW2 fans - Awesome endgame!

The rest of the mmorpg world - It's another quest zone with mobs walking around...

Originally posted by Four0Six

Originally posted by ste2000

To the OP.................most people saw that coming ages ago.

Yet MMORPG.com gave TSW 9/10 in Longevity in their review.................sometimes I wonder if they know the true meaning of Longevity.

 But for almost a decade WoW has held millions of subs.

 

Yes exactly...............that's WOW.

But it is TSW that got 9/10 in Longevity............not WOW.

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by BadSpock

But it is a "new" mechanic - the closest thing I can recall is Tabula Rasa where the Bane would take control of territory and fight the players in a global game of territorial capture, but TR really fell short and the players complained that it interfered too much with their quest grind...

Well GW2 doesn't have a quest grind and the 3 mega zones of Orr don't contain any "quests" or anything except massive multi-chain events that all lead to / branch from the concept of territorial capture/control against the AI.

Ok.. There are no faction in GW2 you are always united!

So you are telling me a PvE zone with quest mobs and capture point objective is... um a twist? 

Idk man these dudes at NCsoft/Anet are some real spin doctors.

NCsoft/Anet - "End game starts at level 1" - 

mmorpg fans - wtf Anet no endgame?

NCsoft/Anet - There is an endgame! it's a PvE zone with capture objectives and you must fight off the NPCs!

GW2 fans - Awesome endgame!

The rest of the mmorpg world - It's another quest zone with mobs walking around...

Wel it is the same thing that you do level 1-79 it's just on a much larger scale and the persistence and difficulty is ramped up. All events in GW2 scale but in Orr it will require a lot of players... they are "group" events (or I think they call them "elite" events) so they don't down-scale to small group/solo player difficulty.

Just because you don't understand and don't choose to leave your bubble doesn't mean you are right.

Calling it "another quest zone with mobs walking around" is like saying TOR and EVE are exactly the same because "both games have space combat."

Still, at the end of the day, when compared to TSW and instance/raid grinding for gear - it's a step in the right direction IMO.

I'm a big sandbox fan, however I do seem to enjoy a well made themepark too. But there is a massive difference to me, between a typical themepark mmo and a heavily story driven themepark mmo. The latter being extremely boring to me, if not immediately then very shortly thereafter.

I love lore, but it should be delievered in a way that is not a heavy story imo.

Heavy story, where the story is the game pretty much, should be reserved for sp games, books and movies, again imo. It simply does not translate well into a multiplayer persistent experience.

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by BadSpock

But it is a "new" mechanic - the closest thing I can recall is Tabula Rasa where the Bane would take control of territory and fight the players in a global game of territorial capture, but TR really fell short and the players complained that it interfered too much with their quest grind...

Well GW2 doesn't have a quest grind and the 3 mega zones of Orr don't contain any "quests" or anything except massive multi-chain events that all lead to / branch from the concept of territorial capture/control against the AI.

Ok.. There are no faction in GW2 you are always united!

So you are telling me a PvE zone with quest mobs and capture point objective is... um a twist? 

Idk man these dudes at NCsoft/Anet are some real spin doctors.

NCsoft/Anet - "End game starts at level 1" - 

mmorpg fans - wtf Anet no endgame?

NCsoft/Anet - There is an endgame! it's a PvE zone with capture objectives and you must fight off the NPCs!

GW2 fans - Awesome endgame!

The rest of the mmorpg world - It's another quest zone with mobs walking around...

Wel it is the same thing that you do level 1-79 it's just on a much larger scale and the persistence and difficulty is ramped up. All events in GW2 scale but in Orr it will require a lot of players... they are "group" events (or I think they call them "elite" events) so they don't down-scale to small group/solo player difficulty.

Just because you don't understand and don't choose to leave your bubble doesn't mean you are right.

Calling it "another quest zone with mobs walking around" is like saying TOR and EVE are exactly the same because "both games have space combat."

Still, at the end of the day, when compared to TSW and instance/raid grinding for gear - it's a step in the right direction IMO.

Less instancing more open world fun!

Originally posted by bcbully

[mod edit]

Oh I agree - but it's their jobs. All MMO devs will tell your their game is the best thing since sliced bread.

It gets annoying no matter what studio it is and what game it is.

I read the first few posts as:

"Hey I just chewed the hell out of the content in this game in the fastest possible time I could, ONLY playing 12 hours a day & short-cutting through the slow stuff like investigations & now I'm so frakking bored the game is dead to me"

No s**t, Sherlock!

Players only have themselves to blame if they consume the game so fast it gave the npc's nosebleeds.

No developer has yet managed to create a themepark ride to satisfy this extreme type of player, newsflash: no game yet made will keep you entertained for long unless it's got the tools to let you build your own content - and not many of this type even want to do that, it's too slow a process for them.

Powergamers = Powerwhiners.

Eagerly awaits the end of October (or maybe earlier) when I can see all of the posts about running out of things to do in GW2.  Spin it however you GW2 people want to it's the same limited Themepark design as all the rest.  PvE people will be out of things to do.

It's all the same whether I do a quest that is a bit better than usual (TSW) but still much like what we have been used to or I run to circles on a map and spam AoE's (GW2).

I guess debating with rabid fans is pointless at this time.  We will see the results in a couple months. 

Originally posted by Mardukk

Eagerly awaits the end of October (or maybe earlier) when I can see all of the posts about running out of things to do in GW2.  Spin it however you GW2 people want to it's the same limited Themepark design as all the rest.  PvE people will be out of things to do.

It's all the same whether I do a quest that is a bit better than usual (TSW) but still much like what we have been used to or I run to circles on a map and spam AoE's (GW2).

I guess debating with rabid fans is pointless at this time.  We will see the results in a couple months. 

It is safe to say that PvE content locusts will never be happy. This is very true.

Longevity then comes from whatever else the game has when the "main" form of PvE content "runs out."

Originally posted by Mardukk

Eagerly awaits the end of October (or maybe earlier) when I can see all of the posts about running out of things to do in GW2.  Spin it however you GW2 people want to it's the same limited Themepark design as all the rest.  PvE people will be out of things to do.

 

It's all the same whether I do a quest that is a bit better than usual (TSW) but still much like what we have been used to or I run to circles on a map and spam AoE's (GW2).

 

I guess debating with rabid fans is pointless at this time.  We will see the results in a couple months. 

 Gonna be annoying as hell for me. Considering I'll be playing the game they always do a 180 on and bash to no end.

It gets really old seeing the same posters do it time after time. It is kind of comical I suppose as well though.

Originally posted by cyress8

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by BadSpock

But it is a "new" mechanic - the closest thing I can recall is Tabula Rasa where the Bane would take control of territory and fight the players in a global game of territorial capture, but TR really fell short and the players complained that it interfered too much with their quest grind...

Well GW2 doesn't have a quest grind and the 3 mega zones of Orr don't contain any "quests" or anything except massive multi-chain events that all lead to / branch from the concept of territorial capture/control against the AI.

Ok.. There are no faction in GW2 you are always united!

So you are telling me a PvE zone with quest mobs and capture point objective is... um a twist? 

Idk man these dudes at NCsoft/Anet are some real spin doctors.

NCsoft/Anet - "End game starts at level 1" - 

mmorpg fans - wtf Anet no endgame?

NCsoft/Anet - There is an endgame! it's a PvE zone with capture objectives and you must fight off the NPCs!

GW2 fans - Awesome endgame!

The rest of the mmorpg world - It's another quest zone with mobs walking around...

Wel it is the same thing that you do level 1-79 it's just on a much larger scale and the persistence and difficulty is ramped up. All events in GW2 scale but in Orr it will require a lot of players... they are "group" events (or I think they call them "elite" events) so they don't down-scale to small group/solo player difficulty.

Just because you don't understand and don't choose to leave your bubble doesn't mean you are right.

Calling it "another quest zone with mobs walking around" is like saying TOR and EVE are exactly the same because "both games have space combat."

Still, at the end of the day, when compared to TSW and instance/raid grinding for gear - it's a step in the right direction IMO.

Less instancing more open world fun!

Less co-ordinated groups with distinct roles & strategies, more open-world zerging with less responsibility.

Originally posted by Mithrandolir

I'm a big sandbox fan, however I do seem to enjoy a well made themepark too. But there is a massive difference to me, between a typical themepark mmo and a heavily story driven themepark mmo. The latter being extremely boring to me, if not immediately then very shortly thereafter.

I love lore, but it should be delievered in a way that is not a heavy story imo.

Heavy story, where the story is the game pretty much, should be reserved for sp games, books and movies, again imo. It simply does not translate well into a multiplayer persistent experience.

Generally speaking, the "standard" themepark is a story-driven one as well, just with really, REALLY shitty stories.

You know the quest text that everyone skips through, and just hits "accept" to get to the goal, kill X of Y, collect C of D, whatever?  Those are actually stories.  They are extremely bad stories, akin to a random word generator, but they are stories nonetheless.  Largely, they are one-off, and have no bearing on the gameworld, but they're stories.

They are also one of the most complained about parts of the modern MMO.  "Give me something else, I'm tired of kill X of Y."

Running a thousand such quests also does not translate well into a multiplayer persistent experience.  The only thing that really does take advantage of the persistent world and virtual society is player-driven content in which the players and player-made constructs become the content, i.e. sandbox play.

Everything else is repetitive and worthless to the persistent world, whether that's quest hubbing "kill X of Y" quests, running the same instance or battleground over and over, PQs, rifts, or scripted dynamic events.

It makes little sense to me to play a themepark game, and be surprised that it *gasp*, offers themepark play.  They all do.  It's like playing a shooter, and being shocked and offended that you're "forced" to, you know, shoot things in it.

Originally posted by Wighty

Originally posted by tank017
That's theme parks for ya.they all last about a month out of the gate until they start running out of content.Then you must wait for content updates and xpacks.

Man I hear you, I am familiar with MMO's since their inception. The last few out the gate have been ridiculous, TOR, now TSW.... I mean they frontload you with all this tasty goodness with good storylines and great progession through the zones, only to have this ridiculously redundant gameplay.

 Is this the MMO business model nowadays... Perhaps it's time for a new hobby... Hopefully GW2 will not be the same ol.

Indeedy...

Now you know why they're having the big promo weekend with FC point rewards if you finish 30 missions this weekend.  They want their launch subscribers to stay on for another month.  Both devious and clever...

Originally posted by Airhead80

The second ride on a rollercoaster is never as fun as the first.

Its amazing that devs havent come to this conclusion yet.

I am well known for my dislike of Funcom, but in this instance I am a bit taken aback.  You blitz through a game and then go, what do I do now?  Perhaps you should have taken your time, savored the moments and not looked to run through as if it is some sort of race.  I am sure more people would get more pleasure from games if they paced themselves.  As a rule of thumb trying not to finish the content until there is new content available works quite well for extending the longevity. Look for what else you can do within the game as you are going along, not once you have finished it.

Even with my total lack of respect for Funcom I certainly can't believe there is only a months worth of content in this game,  You might have used up the content in in a month with your style of play. But an MMO like this should keep the average player happy for at least six months. 

See I've kind of done the same thing as OP... I loved the story etc but now I have to grind like crazy just to get any half decent gear... I so wish these companies wouldn't do this.... :/

That said, how else could they do it? I've only really played WoW, Rift, SWToR and now TSW and they all seem to run the same way... Play and awesome story, then grind like mad... Do other companies do it a different way, if so is it better? (Sorry for my in-experience here).

It is like a different game for me too... I do have some hope in the fact I made some new mates in a decent guild, but running the same stuff over and over isn't the way forward imo :(

Originally posted by Airhead80

The second ride on a rollercoaster is never as fun as the first.

It is if you don't buckle your harness.

Originally posted by fallenlords

I am well known for my dislike of Funcom, but in this instance I am a bit taken aback.  You blitz through a game and then go, what do I do now?  Perhaps you should have taken your time, savored the moments and not looked to run through as if it is some sort of race.  I am sure more people would get more pleasure from games if they paced themselves.  As a rule of thumb trying not to finish the content until there is new content available works quite well for extending the longevity. Look for what else you can do within the game as you are going along, not once you have finished it.

 

Even with my total lack of respect for Funcom I certainly can't believe there is only a months worth of content in this game,  You might have used up the content in in a month with your style of play. But an MMO like this should keep the average player happy for at least six months. 

I believe there is some truth in what you say. My best guess is that there are about 200-250 hours of content in the game. This does not include repeatable missions, dungeons, or PvP. A chunk of that content needs to be discovered because quests are not in a "hub" per se, so maybe people are missing some of the content. Investigation missions also take some time, unless you just look up the answer.

However, I think that what you describe above as taking time and savouring the moment applies more to a single-player experience than to an MMO where you pay a monthly fee. Maybe it's just me, but when I'm paying to access a game, even if it's only $.50 a day, I feel like I'm not getting my money's worth if I pick it up only a couple hours a week. And in fact, with that approach, a $50 game could end up costing $200 over the course of a year, or more, which I suppose still isn't a lot of if you enjoy it.

On top of this, there were some design decisions which lessens the duration of the game. Yes, there is a skill wheel to unlock, but there is one leveling path. Since there is a skill wheel there is no reason to make alts. Yes there are 3 factions but there's no real difference between them in terms of gameplay. Once you've cleared lower level content there is no reason to go back, so QL10 players are stuck in Transylvania, grinding instances, PvP, or hoping each month that the next content patch is good, all while paying to access their character.