Originally posted by Ryowulf

Originally posted by jeremyjodes

I hate to be the debbie downer of the forums. but F2P won't save this game. I predict by end of 2012 and the latest march 2013 this game will be shut-down or in maintence mode. It's just that bad. unless they overhaul the pathetic engine and start taking this thing off the rails it will keep sinking regardless of payment model. Thats about it for my opinion on TOR.

I agree. If people play this game it will be for the personal story. Assuming they can play that out without paying, then where isn't anything all that interesting to make them want to sub.

I doubt they will bring out anymore voiced personal quests arcs, unless they are all ready mostly done. No point in throwing good money after bad. So what quests will people miss out on after 50?

^This.

+Locking operations for f2p is a terible idea. Unless there will be unlock of somesort in store its another reason to play the story and leave.

Originally posted by jbombard
If they couldn't roll out content fast enough to keep people interested when everyone was paying them $15 a month, I'm very skeptical about them being able to roll out content fast enough to keep people interested when nobody is paying them.  The whole reason that they failed was there inability to provide value to their customers and release content quick enough and of high enough quality to keep their subscribers paying.  Switching to F2P isn't going to fix that fundamental problem, because if can't do that people won't be interested long enough to stay and pay.

Content as in combat oriented combat will never be fast enough. It's really time for games that call themselfs MMORPG to become MMORPG's and not just story driven online co-op combat games.

I'd say, from the level of bitterness appearing inevitably in any thread regarding this title, that it's definitely still too soon.

From the business perspective, sooner the better. Once you rack up money from initial box sales, purchase and subscription fees become a burden only.

DDO, one of the earliest conversions from Sub-based to F2P, also has one of the best F2P models I've come across: the purchase of adventure packs on a pay-as-you-go basis and class/race unlocks.

I'm leery of SWTOR's conversion to F2P, as it looks (correct me if I'm wrong!) like some really basic things that make the game fun -- multiple character slots, quick travel, GTA (AH) usage, bage space -- are going to be adversely impacted if you choose F2P. That kind of a scheme will not bring me back to SWTOR.

I guess if I'm going to spend money in a F2P game, I want it to be for account-wide unlocks of large chunks of the whole game. I don't want to have to haggle and pick and choose among basic necessities. This is why GW2's system is so attractive and why I generally favor a B2P scheme over most F2P shemes I've encountered.

Sadly, I didn't really like the game itself all that well, but the business model, it was particularly good, I thought. My hope is that the upcoming Neverwinter  will be based on a similar F2P business model -- but ALSO just be a much better game.

Bill, u wrote: "I actually find SWTOR to be a perfectly fun theme-park MMO."

Well, IMHO the BIG SW:TOR problem is in your words: another themepark MMO. How many are they? Around 80/90% on the full gamelist here? And if u need to create a blockbuster, really doing a game that is the same of thousends is the best way? Sometime being different can be a good idea.

For a western company, any time is too late. There is only ONE title that went from Subscription to ACTUAL F2P and that was DDO.

Every single other title has gone PAYTRAP, which is not F2P which is why NOT ONE SINGLE PAYTRAP game has made NEAR what the big F2P games have made. Its all half-assed, half-hearted BS...they dont even do the F2P shops right.

F2P players wont fall into the paytrap of subscribing to a game to unlock everything, it defeats the entire PURPOSE of playing a F2P game and developers are DELUSIONAL to think they will get more money from tricking a few 10 thousand people to subscribe to their already failed subscription based game.

These companies missed their mark with a subscription only to miss it again by targetting F2P players with a sub-trap model. Well, stupid is what stupid does.

"Just as DCUO thrived far better as a F2P offering, so too will SWTOR in the long run."

Pretty sure that there is no evidence of DCUO thriving as f2p; more people initially for sure but subsequently - after the next game goes f2p and the one after. No evidence that SWTOR will either - and it was clearly not designed to be f2p (EA spoke at length about how it was subs that were critixal and how the team would be kept on etc.).

Zynga's results are clear evidence that f2p is not a sure thing; lots of people play and don't pay. And, imo, SWTOR's biggest asset - the class stories - will be free.

"I don’t think SWTOR’s F2P transition is too soon. I personally think it couldn’t come soon enough. Just as DCUO thrived far better as a F2P offering, so too will SWTOR in the long run. What I’d rather see though? I’d like to see games start releasing that give us a reason to subscribe every month. And if they cannot do that, when there are so many options on the market, I’d like to see them have the courage to launch from the gate as F2P, and let us decide when and how we want to give you our money. If you give us a reason to, most of us will gladly pony up."

This paragraph about sums it up for me.  I really wish they would have gone F2P from the start and I also wish more more games would launch this way.  Part of the problem is the insane development costs and the primary focus on revenue generation, but another part of the problem is with us, the "Western" gaming community, and spouting our religous rules about business models and game design morality.  Instead of just playing and supporting a game for what it is we analyze it down to the finest detail abandoning the game if it doesn't meet this crazy laundry list of expectations.

I agree with Tardcore in the previous post.  We need to stop treating every new launch like the coming of Jesus only to be bitterly disappointed.  In that same vein we also need to stop expecting miracles out of our entertainment.

We should encourage companies to offer their games F2P from the start.  Just think, we could try a game and then support it if it suits us.  There would be less incentive for companies to hype and bullshit us trying to get us to buy up front and more of an incentive to create a fun game that keeps us playing.

9000 .... years is too soon. imo

Why Doesn't MMORPG get rid of all these Ads and go F2Read?  If what you write is good, I'm sure somebody will pay for it.  Shoe doesn’t fit so well on the other foot does it?  Everyone expects to get paid for their services.  The problem with F2P is that so many people think it really means they get to play absolutely free and nobody has to pay.

You have the players that whine about P2W ruining their PvP.  They will only tolerate “Vanity” items being sold on the cash shop, knowing full well they will never buy any “Vanity” item or anything off the cash shop.  Well I say right next to those “Vanity” items should be PvP.  Oh you can be flagged for PvP for free on a F2P game, but you can’t fight back unless you buy a month worth of PvP time.  If buying all these PvP options ala cart is getting too expensive, then get it all for a monthly sub.

Now I am not saying that SWTOR is a quality product or that  consumers should not expect quality from devs and pubs.  SWTOR was a B or B- product that should be developed into a A product.  Players should be expected to pay for A quality products.  Players should also expect to try a product for free to determine if it is a quality product.