When is the part that he mentions the cash shop, hiring Nexon's old cash shop manager, the ex-manager intentionally changing dyes from unlocking them for the whole account to per character so we're pushed towards the 4/400 chance dye cash shop item? When do we find out if level 80 transmutation stones are cash shop only or not?

Originally posted by Betakodo

When is the part that he mentions the cash shop, hiring Nexon's old cash shop manager, the ex-manager intentionally changing dyes from unlocking them for the whole account to per character so we're pushed towards the 4/400 chance dye cash shop item? When do we find out if level 80 transmutation stones are cash shop only or not?

Pretty sure transmutation stones are not tiered (meaning a stone can be used for any level of gear).  You get 3 for fully exploring any home city to 100% map completion, so I'm not really in a bind about the transmutation stones.

These guys and Bioware are the most yappy devs I've ever seen.

Originally posted by Kuppa

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Kuppa

Originally posted by Xerith

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Zylaxx

Great read and I agree 100%.  A year ago I was apprehensive about no-subscription games but now I've come around 180 degrees.  Sad thing is alot of guys here are against anything but sub based games which is just silly, becasue eventually subscriptions will go the way of the dodo.

Only really good games will have subs.

 

I personally will not play a f2p game. I don't want to have to pony up cash to be able to sell an item or to get xp boost so I don't have to grind.

Uh Warhammer?

Quality is not the only reason why a game might stay sub based. Its a mix of thing including financials. If they game holds 100k people paying a sub and is profitable enough that doesn't mean its a really good game.

All of the recent game though require way more than that to stay afloat so we will see them all go f2p sooner rather than later.

Not all the recent ones. I also think a couple of the ones to come next year will do well too.

You are right, that was a horrible generalization in my part. But we can agree your statement was a horrible genralization also.

Well... okay ;)

SOE's Smedley gave a similar editorial a year ago about subs being less popular in the future

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2011-09-19-the-free-future-editorial

he discussed subs, buy to play, free to play

EDIT:

the Op's article is sensationalistic using the header "death rattle of the subscription game"

but I recognize that Lyle did not say that

I would rather pay a monthly fee on a great game and get full access to everything plus no P2W shop then have to deal with a game that was built to nickel and dime me every quest or turn. but a failing industry and it's schills called "gaming sites" are pushing hard for people to believe them when they say it's true. and most of the time people believe it is true. it could be made a great thing if they knew how to make it work. but greed can sometimes get in the way of being a good thing. you have enough fools willing to pay you for a item that only exist in a digital world. that item is NOT real you are paying for something that does not exist in a physical form in our current physical reality.

I find it insane sometimes people spend money on something that is not real. it would be like me paying for the right to breath air. these are games first foremost, they're supposed to be entertaining you! and sometimes a hobby. since when did I want to be a cash register for some powerful corporation?

I'm giving up gaming for the fact ALL games even MMOs are making human beings into living cash registers and provide me with nothing that is fun or entertains me anymore. make a great MMO that is fun? i would pay you double the monthy sub gladly.

Rant off..

Games in 2012 have no reason to have a subscription fee.

10+ years ago server costs were much higher than today, so sub fee were indeed needed, today they are pure profit.

The content argument is crap - they alredy designed the game, box price will cover it if the game is any good.

Further content can be sold either in DLC format or expansion format, and it will be much less expensive tand time consuming to create.

Idiotic freemium and p2w and/or pay to progress cash shops aren't the solution either.

Originally posted by jeremyjodes

I would rather pay a monthly fee on a great game and get full access to everything plus no P2W shop then have to deal with a game that was built to nickel and dime me every quest or turn. but a failing industry and it's schills called "gaming sites" are pushing hard for people to believe them when they say it's true. and most of the time people believe it is true. it could be made a great thing if they knew how to make it work. but greed can sometimes get in the way of being a good thing. you have enough fools willing to pay you for a item that only exist in a digital world. that item is NOT real you are paying for something that does not exist in a physical form in our current physical reality.

I find it insane sometimes people spend money on something that is not real. it would be like me paying for the right to breath air. these are games first foremost, they're supposed to be entertaining you! and sometimes a hobby. since when did I want to be a cash register for some powerful corporation?

I'm giving up gaming for the fact ALL games even MMOs are making human beings into living cash registers and provide me with nothing that is fun or entertains me anymore. make a great MMO that is fun? i would pay you double the monthy sub gladly.

Rant off..

That is pretty much what a sub fee is - the right to play a game you have already bought for a just price but they want another $15 of profit for the privilege.

Originally posted by jeremyjodes

you have enough fools willing to pay you for a item that only exist in a digital world. that item is NOT real you are paying for something that does not exist in a physical form in our current physical reality.

Tell me, what is the difference, money wise, of paying a $15 per month subscription for a game that happens in a virtual world that doesn't really exist, or paying $15 every month in the "cash shop" of a game that happens in a virtual world that doesn't really exist?

I only see one difference personally - in the later, you are not forced to keep on paying those $15 to continue playing.

Originally posted by bcbully

FOR ALL WE KNOW THERE IS A TYPE OF GAME OUT THERE THAT WILL CONTINUE TO BENEFIT FROM A SUBSCRIPTION MODEL, I'VE JUST NOT HEARD OF IT YET.'

 

 

Guild Wars 2' and the death rattle of the subscription game

 

Titles and comments like this from a development team are a real turn off to some.

But true nevertheless, imagine how many copies TSW would have likely sold if it had went B2P for $60 as opposed to a $250 lifetime sub or the standard $15 a month as a choice..

If TSW were B2P i would have bought 3 copies myself even though im not particularly crazy about funcom i think TSW is their best game to date..

The sub model is a dying dinosaur and is slowly fading out that is why every major mmo developer has a freemium or F2P option these days and they are going to discover that freemium is already obsolete..

Originally posted by jeremyjodes

I would rather pay a monthly fee on a great game and get full access to everything plus no P2W shop then have to deal with a game that was built to nickel and dime me every quest or turn. but a failing industry and it's schills called "gaming sites" are pushing hard for people to believe them when they say it's true. and most of the time people believe it is true. it could be made a great thing if they knew how to make it work. but greed can sometimes get in the way of being a good thing. you have enough fools willing to pay you for a item that only exist in a digital world. that item is NOT real you are paying for something that does not exist in a physical form in our current physical reality.

I find it insane sometimes people spend money on something that is not real. it would be like me paying for the right to breath air. these are games first foremost, they're supposed to be entertaining you! and sometimes a hobby. since when did I want to be a cash register for some powerful corporation?

I'm giving up gaming for the fact ALL games even MMOs are making human beings into living cash registers and provide me with nothing that is fun or entertains me anymore. make a great MMO that is fun? i would pay you double the monthy sub gladly.

Rant off..

GW2 is in no way P2W and it most certainly wasn't designed to require or incentivize cash shop purchases in order to play and enjoy the game. So, I'd rather have GW2 than either of your choices. You can take your sub games, (many of which are adding cash shops on top of a sub fee), plus your F2P "nickle and dime, death inducing" MMOs. I'll be very happy to be playing GW2 and hoping that other games of quality will also go the B2P+ "benign cash shop" route in the future.

I personally plan on buying about $15 of GW2 gems each month to support the game, but I actually expect those to accumulate into a stockpile, rather than being spent in full each month. It's also nice to know that if I need to funnel that cash elsewhere, I can keep right on playing with out having to worry about, or justify, a subscription fee.

Originally posted by dageeza

Originally posted by bcbully

FOR ALL WE KNOW THERE IS A TYPE OF GAME OUT THERE THAT WILL CONTINUE TO BENEFIT FROM A SUBSCRIPTION MODEL, I'VE JUST NOT HEARD OF IT YET.'

 

 

Guild Wars 2' and the death rattle of the subscription game

 

Titles and comments like this from a development team are a real turn off to some.

But true nevertheless, imagine how many copies TSW would have likely sold if it had went B2P for $60 as opposed to a $250 lifetime sub or the standard $15 a month as a choice..

If TSW were B2P i would have bought 3 copies myself even though im not particularly crazy about funcom i think TSW is their best game to date..

The sub model is a dying dinosaur and is slowly fading out that is why every major mmo developer has a freemium or F2P option these days and they are going to discover that freemium is already obsolete..

 As the only means to play a game I would agree.  Will a set price to play a game unhindered as one of it's options go away? I highly doubt that.

 Can we all please agree that Lyle did not make a "death rattle" comment regarding sub models?

I don't believe the themeparks of the last few years "failed" purely because they were P2P. They failed to retain the majority of their subs because players burned through their content too fast to justify paying a sub for more than a month or 2.

If you're "done" with the content in a game:

Will you happily continue grinding the same dailies every day for 6 months just because there is no sub ?

Will you suddenly like "endgame gear grinding" just because the game has no sub ?

If you don't like PVP, will you suddenly like the "PVP endgame" just because the game has no sub ?

The subscription model is being replaced by the Cash Shop model. Ironically, both models expect a constant monthly income to be generated. The CS model just earns less per player, but hopes to offset that by pulling in more players. It's what Wallmart did for the retail industry, i.e. lower margins but higher volumes.

PS2 will be the first true test of the F2P model. It will be the first "big budget" MMO to launch as purely F2P with "cosmetic Cash Shop". All the current AAA F2P games launched with box sales and/or subscriptions, so they all earned substantial chunks of cash in their first 6 months.

If PS2 is a success, that will be the real "death rattle" of the sub model.