Originally posted by Crazy_Stick

Originally posted by lifeordinary

Originally posted by Crazy_Stick

Originally posted by lifeordinary

Originally posted by Crazy_Stick

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by Crazy_Stick

 

Eh, not to be a jerk but I don't feel it's fair to skip Aion or Lineage from the discussion (both with more paying population than SWTOR globally) just because  they are successful enough to compete in both the East and West. That puts SWTOR at number four. LOL... :)

 

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Cut out eastern numbers from Aion and Lineage and then we can proceed, it will be very quick, I promise :)

 

Only if you cut out the Asian sub numbers from SWTOR's subscription total too (they have a significant player population on on their Asian Pacific servers that includes Hong Kong, Singapore, New Zealand, Australia, etc.) At that point, there is real question... :P

Game is only officialy released in Singapore. They never released it in any other asian country that i know of. Only because people from China can play SWTOR doesn't mean you start comparing it to population of AION which was officially released first in Asia and then in west.

 

Sorry... That's inaccurate and their is a significant Asian Pacific population to consider. It's available in all those contries.

http://www.swtor.com/info/news/news-article/20120214 

 

It says Hong Kong and Singapore....what all other Asian countries SWTOR is officialy released in?

 

Look again, right at the top. It says Australia, New Zealand, Hong Kong and Singapore . Am I going to get into trouble for saying er... limited Chinese release. ;) Or even considering taking issue that Runescape as a browser MMORPG doesn't count (and if you do count it, that game sure makes a lot of big budget games look bad.) I am pretty nuetral on SWTOR as a game and don't have a lot of personal feeling attached to it.

I am talking about asian countries since you are using that as basis to make comparison. All i see is hong kong and singapore..now compare that to asian countries Aion and Lienage is released in? you don't see how bad the entire premises is to make a proper comparison here?

How did you arrive to the conclusion that in comparison to AION, SWTOR has similar leve lf presence in Asia? no seriously?

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by eyelolled

I'd say Tabula Rasa over SWTOR but if you just wanted to feel the glory on your sparkle pony, don't let me ruin your parade.

I agree after UO tabula was supposed to be the next big MMO for Richard but was a complete disaster. At least swtor is playable and has a decent story aspect.

i agree

SWTOR disappointed but it wasnt a disaster

 

disaster mmos:  by devs w good mmo background

SWG post NGE

Asherons Call 2

Tabula Rasa

Vanguard

 

all of these mmos had the plug pulled, except Vanguard

SWG only had the plug pulled as LA thought they had a sure thing with SWTOR.

SWG was a disaster in 2005, but in the last few years of its life it was far from a disaster. SOE put tonnes of effort into it, from what they were allowed to do with LA "pulling the strings", and it ended up being pretty awesome, but also at least SOE and LA put some effort into the game from the get go, even if it did not work out. There were always updates coming in pretty fast from the moment it was laumched to the day it closed.

SWTOR is just more of polished NGE with all the best bits of SWG removed, leaving a shell of the game. Ever do the Legacy quest series in SWG. The one long boring quest series as all professions do it? SWTOR is just that, but a lot better, but could have been better again still.  There is more reason to play the game after level 90 in SWG than there is in SWTOR once you hit 50. There was more ways to level up in SWG though, you could explore the worlds yurself and take on missions by random NPCs, and / or do the mission terminals which gave you 1 level per day.

I would seriously love to have some of what you are smoking Mr Superniceguy from Anchorhead because that grass in a galaxy far far away must be damn good.

What is it with SWG vets though, its like putting all the odd kids in the "special" class and getting them to paint with there hands and puting the result in the National Gallery next to a Turner. Thats what they've done with SWG in there minds on that fantastic weed.

Originally posted by Crazy_Stick

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by Crazy_Stick

 

Foot just inserted in your own mouth. Thank you... :)

And contrary to your accusation. I am no "hater."

 

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Since you insisted and kept making absurd claims despite all evidence and reason, I had only two options: you are either doing it intentionally or non-intentionally.

Seems like I was wrong in my guess and overestimated you...

 

Pointing out that Aion and Lineage out preform SWTOR on the global market is an absurd claim after backing it up with numbers? Pointing out that SWTOR does have a presence in the Asian Pacific market? Making it a global competitor? I think you need to step back from the PC and stop worrying about being wrong some times. It's ok. You're investing way too much anger in forum posting. Have fun with that.

I love the old chestnut when losing an argument the person winning is emotionally, upset, angry etc.. but in reality they are just deabting points thats the person slinging the mud cannot counter.

Originally posted by arieste

I'm also in the camp of TR and Vanguard being the bigger failures.  TOR still sold over a million and as is active.

 

On the flipside, TR was at least a good game, albeit a financial flop.  Many people remember TR very fondly and would play it again.  I doubt that too many of its former players are going to remember TOR fondly.

And why is that? over expecting? I hope the dissapointment with TOR for many and the resulting schadenfreude from people not being able to reconcile the butthurt feelings when expecteing the greatest game ever (tm) has shown people to not get hyped about a game. I'm waiting for the same thing with GW2 when it also fails to live up to expectations and then can I say its the biggest flop in history? GW2 and TOR are both good games but can never compete with the utopian game many players have in their heads prior to release.

Failure seems to indicate either no longer running or in need of a complete overhaul.  SWtoR does not fall in that category.  Yes its going ftp but its not changing its core gameplay.  Just off the top of my head three that had to do that are (in no particular order) SWG, FF XIV and Tabula Rasa.  The first two either had a complete game overhaul or are discussing it.  And two of them aren't even running anymore even though they started in a much less crowded field.

You might claim that SWtoR was disappointing in fiscal performance but I don't even know if that is true.

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Originally posted by WhiteLantern
I've seen several people mention closed down games, so I'll throw out this reminder:

 

 

APB

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Hellgate: London was another fail, it didn't even have a chance to release.

Originally posted by Calerxes

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by eyelolled

I'd say Tabula Rasa over SWTOR but if you just wanted to feel the glory on your sparkle pony, don't let me ruin your parade.

I agree after UO tabula was supposed to be the next big MMO for Richard but was a complete disaster. At least swtor is playable and has a decent story aspect.

i agree

SWTOR disappointed but it wasnt a disaster

 

disaster mmos:  by devs w good mmo background

SWG post NGE

Asherons Call 2

Tabula Rasa

Vanguard

 

all of these mmos had the plug pulled, except Vanguard

SWG only had the plug pulled as LA thought they had a sure thing with SWTOR.

SWG was a disaster in 2005, but in the last few years of its life it was far from a disaster. SOE put tonnes of effort into it, from what they were allowed to do with LA "pulling the strings", and it ended up being pretty awesome, but also at least SOE and LA put some effort into the game from the get go, even if it did not work out. There were always updates coming in pretty fast from the moment it was laumched to the day it closed.

SWTOR is just more of polished NGE with all the best bits of SWG removed, leaving a shell of the game. Ever do the Legacy quest series in SWG. The one long boring quest series as all professions do it? SWTOR is just that, but a lot better, but could have been better again still.  There is more reason to play the game after level 90 in SWG than there is in SWTOR once you hit 50. There was more ways to level up in SWG though, you could explore the worlds yurself and take on missions by random NPCs, and / or do the mission terminals which gave you 1 level per day.

 

I would seriously love to have some of what you are smoking Mr Superniceguy from Anchorhead because that grass in a galaxy far far away must be damn good.

What is it with SWG vets though, its like putting all the odd kids in the "special" class and getting them to paint with there hands and puting the result in the National Gallery next to a Turner. Thats what they've done with SWG in there minds on that fantastic weed.

Excuse me? 

SWG still managed to maintain adequate populations throughout to 2009, yet SWTOR could not manage it for 6 months, and when they close the servers later in the summer, SWTOR will have less servers than SWG had for its first 6 years. If SWG was a real disaster it would not have lasted into 2007.

If the game was not going free 2 play the populations would end up being less than SWG by next year, and it still probably will within 2 years now, once people realise how shallow it still is. F2P has just delayed its demise.

Overall SWG > SWTOR

If both MMOs were active now, SWG would have more players in it, and most are only playing SWTOR as it is the only Star Wars MMO

If SWG went F2P, it would end up being the next Minecraft in success. The monthly fee barrier would be removed, and millions of peoples imaginations would have brought SWG to life, and gotten the most out if its sandbox features, as it should have been.

When SWTOR shuts down I bet no one will bother with a flightless bird of it

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by Calerxes

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by eyelolled

 

 

 

If both MMOs were active now, SWG would have more players in it, and most are only playing SWTOR as it is the only Star Wars MMO

If SWG went F2P, it would end up being the next Minecraft in success. The monthly fee barrier would be removed, and millions of peoples imaginations would have brought SWG to life, and gotten the most out if its sandbox features, as it should have been.

SWTOR is utter garbage in my opinion but you must be on crack if you think the above is true.

Even if not the biggest failure ever, definately the biggest dissapointment, especially for a star wars fan. But if you count in factors such as the biggest budget in any MMO ever combined with one of the biggest IPs ever - then yeah, its the biggest FAIL yuo could imagine in this genre. At least looks like from where im standing.

K team UK,... You spouted so much bull I'll reply together. You simply can not cut out the numbers for Aion or Lineage from Asia when “discussing” the success of SWTOR on the “global” scale when trying to rank the overall popularity of the game. So they operate in Asian countries where SWTOR isn’t yet available? That does not change the fact that both games are more successful “globally” which is all “I” ever claimed. I don't know what a couple of your buddies are rambling about but it isn't what I claimed. Asians exist you can’t just throw them out of the equation and say only the western world matters when talking MMORPGs as all of them are trying to tap into the market on the “other side of the fence” as soon as possible. Boy, I bet every western game maker wishes people would subtract the Asian market when WOW’s paying subscriber number is quoted but it doesn’t happen for good reason...

It’d be like saying RIFT is now the WOW KIller because they are more popular in Kenya today. It might be true on its face but we all know the WOW Killer claim isn’t true all things considered because the rest of the world is still there. You’re trying to spin the game as more successful than it is by trying to place it in a artificial context more favorable to your desires.

Oh, and just for meanness, Runescape can be played in a browser but it is a client based game and they encourage its use. On the purely western market alone which they do share? It has more players than SWTOR too which still makes SWTOR at least number three by your own reckoning when you consider paying subs. :P That doesn't include Dofud either as it has potentially more paying subs here too...

Quote RS Demographics: 60 percent are from the U.S., 25 percent from the EU, smaller percentages from Australia/New Zealand and Canada.

Oh, it doesn’t count? :P The only thing that counts seems to be what you want to count at the time of posting. It surely does by your own standard as an MMORPG,

Actually, I think APB is the biggest failure to date.  Not only did it shut down, but it forced the whole company (Realtime Worlds) into bankrupcy.  At least EA can still say their company still exists after this.

Nah for me the biggest mmo failure was STO

Originally posted by WarriorNeeds

Actually, I think APB is the biggest failure to date.  Not only did it shut down, but it forced the whole company (Realtime Worlds) into bankrupcy.  At least EA can still say their company still exists after this.

I would have said FFXIV but you're right APB takes the cake.

Originally posted by bunnyhopper

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by Calerxes

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by eyelolled

 

 

 

If both MMOs were active now, SWG would have more players in it, and most are only playing SWTOR as it is the only Star Wars MMO

If SWG went F2P, it would end up being the next Minecraft in success. The monthly fee barrier would be removed, and millions of peoples imaginations would have brought SWG to life, and gotten the most out if its sandbox features, as it should have been.

SWTOR is utter garbage in my opinion but you must be on crack if you think the above is true.

The bit about Minecraft could be wishful thinking but not the first pragraph you quoted. SWTOR is virtually equal to SWGs population in 2003/2004 according to EA. Wait uintil the 6 months subs all expire next month, and there will be a lot less SWTOR subs.

Dont see how it can be a failure if its still running and making money. Sure the FTP is a PR nightmare and a sure sign of troubling times, but a failure? Maybe its semantics but for it to be a failure to me it would have to be shutdown.

38 studios was a failure; Tabula Rasa was a failure; TOR is a huge disappointment not a failure. Thats not to say it wont fail in the future. Time will tell though.

I had huge hopes for it, but there are some design descions, small and large, which irked me and are the ultimate reasons I dont play anymore. But if it can pull off this FTP switch, it might reviltalize the game in the same fashion as LOTRO and EQ2.

People, stop saying Tabula Rasa was the biggest failure.

The BIG thing people tend to forget - The TR we got was not the TR Richard Garriott envisioned.  It was forced to be completely redesigned by NCSoft mid development, scraping the whole thing and building it up again. It started as this back in 2004: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB9dHVUX2KY&feature=relmfu

When did SWTOR ever fundamentally redesign its premise?

TR may have closed, but the reason it closed is because it was trying to be something different, and people didn' t like it. They tried to make a game that appealed to FPS players in western markets, and somehow still appeal to eastern MMO markets. This was a business decision, not a design one.

SWTOR took a successful IP and almost carbon copied a successful gameplay model, and somehow STILL botched it up. WAR, same thing.

TR failed, without a doubt, but NOT in any way shape or form the way WAR and in some ways SWTOR did.

Originally posted by monarc333

Dont see how it can be a failure if its still running and making money. Sure the FTP is a PR nightmare and a sure sign of troubling times, but a failure? Maybe its semantics but for it to be a failure to me it would have to be shutdown.

38 studios was a failure; Tabula Rasa was a failure; TOR is a huge disappointment not a failure. Thats not to say it wont fail in the future. Time will tell though.

I had huge hopes for it, but there are some design descions, small and large, which irked me and are the ultimate reasons I dont play anymore. But if it can pull off this FTP switch, it might reviltalize the game in the same fashion as LOTRO and EQ2.

F2P from P2P, especially in this short space of time = failure

Blizzard talked of WOW going F2P at some point several years ago, when the time was right, and populations declined, but obviously that time still is not arriving yet.

Also games that do shut down are not necessarily failures, but business decisions, and LA did not think they would have the need for SWG when SWTOR came along with its billions of players (in with the new out with the old), but now SWG and SWTOR would be more or less equal in population strength, and I bet if LA saw the super fast decline of SWTOR coming they would have hung on to SWG.

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by Calerxes

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by eyelolled

I'd say Tabula Rasa over SWTOR but if you just wanted to feel the glory on your sparkle pony, don't let me ruin your parade.

I agree after UO tabula was supposed to be the next big MMO for Richard but was a complete disaster. At least swtor is playable and has a decent story aspect.

i agree

SWTOR disappointed but it wasnt a disaster

 

disaster mmos:  by devs w good mmo background

SWG post NGE

Asherons Call 2

Tabula Rasa

Vanguard

 

all of these mmos had the plug pulled, except Vanguard

SWG only had the plug pulled as LA thought they had a sure thing with SWTOR.

SWG was a disaster in 2005, but in the last few years of its life it was far from a disaster. SOE put tonnes of effort into it, from what they were allowed to do with LA "pulling the strings", and it ended up being pretty awesome, but also at least SOE and LA put some effort into the game from the get go, even if it did not work out. There were always updates coming in pretty fast from the moment it was laumched to the day it closed.

SWTOR is just more of polished NGE with all the best bits of SWG removed, leaving a shell of the game. Ever do the Legacy quest series in SWG. The one long boring quest series as all professions do it? SWTOR is just that, but a lot better, but could have been better again still.  There is more reason to play the game after level 90 in SWG than there is in SWTOR once you hit 50. There was more ways to level up in SWG though, you could explore the worlds yurself and take on missions by random NPCs, and / or do the mission terminals which gave you 1 level per day.

 

I would seriously love to have some of what you are smoking Mr Superniceguy from Anchorhead because that grass in a galaxy far far away must be damn good.

What is it with SWG vets though, its like putting all the odd kids in the "special" class and getting them to paint with there hands and puting the result in the National Gallery next to a Turner. Thats what they've done with SWG in there minds on that fantastic weed.

Excuse me? 

SWG still managed to maintain adequate populations throughout to 2009, yet SWTOR could not manage it for 6 months, and when they close the servers later in the summer, SWTOR will have less servers than SWG had for its first 6 years. If SWG was a real disaster it would not have lasted into 2007.

If the game was not going free 2 play the populations would end up being less than SWG by next year, and it still probably will within 2 years now, once people realise how shallow it still is. F2P has just delayed its demise.

Overall SWG > SWTOR

If both MMOs were active now, SWG would have more players in it, and most are only playing SWTOR as it is the only Star Wars MMO

If SWG went F2P, it would end up being the next Minecraft in success. The monthly fee barrier would be removed, and millions of peoples imaginations would have brought SWG to life, and gotten the most out if its sandbox features, as it should have been.

When SWTOR shuts down I bet no one will bother with a flightless bird of it

Did SWG ever have 2.5 millions sold? did SWG have over 500k playerbase after 8 months? was SWG on life support for way over half of its life? and at its end a good source pointed towards there being 12k players left with no support from SOE other than server merges and SOE are masters at making money out of a small playerbase just look at MxO and VGSOH. You have done exactly whant my analogy was trying to point out you have built up an image of SWG success in your head it was a disaster from day one, I implore you get your head out of the sand it would not in a million years have more players than SW:TOR accept that and please move on. SWG vets around here really need to move on its over really its over.

Who the hell cares if SWTOR was the biggest fail this century or not.

Does it concern you as a consumer whom is no longer paying a sub for SWTOR , as well as an Gamer whom is also no longer playing SWTOR.

I really don't understand this need to prove that SWTOR is an Failure.

Every single Development company out there understands what went wrong, so there was really no need to push this issue. Once the subs slipped below 1 Million and never reached the subs of WOW, they knew that changes needs to happen to their own games.

So is this whole post just an Ego Boost for those that saw it coming, whom didn't put in a single dime into SWTOR and was yelling and screaming that SWTOR will fail and that they want to prove that they are right.

Aren't you just like that preacher that said that the world will end, and three times he has failed, but sure, if he keeps this up, eventually, when the world does end, he will be right, maybe on his 1 millionth time he will finally get it correctly when the sun finally burns out and the world ends.

But really, who cares, those that still plays SWTOR still enjoys it, those that doesn't, have flopped to other games already, with GW2 coming out in less than a month, and WOW expansion right after, and all the other MMO's being developed, its not like this is the end of the MMO genre with the end of SWTOR, it actually breath new life to the Genre.

ME3 had a huge problem, because everything that was quoted during interviews was a lie, so many was angry, but SWTOR did provide joy for alot of players, it just have a very bad end game, tons of bugs, no new contents, and slow updates, and it really shows the lack of MMO experiences from the team.

Originally posted by superniceguy

Excuse me? 

SWG still managed to maintain adequate populations throughout to 2009, yet SWTOR could not manage it for 6 months, and when they close the servers later in the summer, SWTOR will have less servers than SWG had for its first 6 years. If SWG was a real disaster it would not have lasted into 2007.

If the game was not going free 2 play the populations would end up being less than SWG by next year, and it still probably will within 2 years now, once people realise how shallow it still is. F2P has just delayed its demise.

Overall SWG > SWTOR

If both MMOs were active now, SWG would have more players in it, and most are only playing SWTOR as it is the only Star Wars MMO

If SWG went F2P, it would end up being the next Minecraft in success. The monthly fee barrier would be removed, and millions of peoples imaginations would have brought SWG to life, and gotten the most out if its sandbox features, as it should have been.

When SWTOR shuts down I bet no one will bother with a flightless bird of it

SWG is gone. Let it go. Move on. SWTOR is shit, but SWG was still closed.

SWTOR isn't closing any time soon...you can stop wetting yourself over it.