this is just ,  a , ummm ,kinda analogy. This is just my opinion coming from a much older gamer.

so , say 7 years ago blizzard invented pizza (just using it as an example, you can replace pizza with anything). Everyone loved pizza. After a year or so of eating nothing but pizza blizzard invents some coke to go with your pizza. Now your like wow , pizza and soda this is amazing. 

another year or so goes by and blizzard is like  we have added sausage to our pizza! and you can now get cherry coke!

cool , more stuff on my pizza. So, your going on 2 years of pizza and soda. 

During this time other businesses start releasing pizza. You try it and some people may like pepsi and the other companies pizza better. The majority however, enjoy that suasage pizza and cherry coke.

another year goes by and blizzard invents stuffed crust pizza and diet coke (gotta watch the calories). People were slowly getting tired of pizza , this new pizza has something "different" to it , and the sugar free coke , is a nice touch.

yet, another year goes by and blizzard adds onions, mushrooms, chickent, sausage and label it supreme pizza. no different beverage flavor. So your like "eh maybe i'll try it". The pizza is getting old though. Despite all the added stuff its still pizza and soda.

after years and years of pizza and soda, you want something different. Companies come out with veggie lovers, meat lovers, buffallo chicken pizza, mountain dew, dr.pepper. It's still pizza and soda. 

In reality,  people are tired of pizza for 8 years in a row. That's why steak is taking off (league of legends) and other different styles of games. People keep looking in the pizza box expecting something different, but all your getting is a different type of pizza.

swtor , basically made a fancy pizza box but when you opened it, there was cheese missing, sauce dripping out the sides, but it came wrapped up nice.

tldr:

quit playing the same game expecting different results.

oh and i did play swtor, great game till you get max level, after that , yes, it is just another pizza. in the mean time im enjoying  a variety of different food groups. Steak (league of legends) on mondays, buffalo wings (dungeon defenders ) on tuesdays, chicken or fish the rest of the week (fps games, steam specials what have you).

-demmi 

Originally posted by sirphobos

This thread will be the death of "SWTOR will be the death of WoW clones" clone threads.

Your post will be the death of the thread that is the death of the "SWTOR will be the death of WoW clones" clone threads.

Originally posted by sekira

It should be pretty apparent by now that SWTOR aka WOWTOR is not doing as well as Bioware or their fans had hoped. The game is already being discounted by $10 on origin, they are already offering multiple free weekends for the game, and one of the most replied to posts on the official forums is titled "Server population is dropping...". Yes it looks like it is the beginning of the end for this game.

 

When a company spends $200 million on a new game and instead of growth, the total population starts to decline (or stabilizies) as individual server populations drop noticeably, its an obvious sign that customers are not satisfied. The game also has a small number of subscribers relative to the total number of potential customers, compared to WoW 7 years ago which had an equal or possibly greater number of subscribers the same length of time after its' release, back when MMO's  were not as mainstream as today.

 

This should speak volumes that gamers are not looking for games that are "similar to WoW" anymore and do not want games that fit the bill of a linear theme park. If WOWTOR monumentally collapses or does not experience great success (profit), I would expect more developers, if they haven't already, will begin to distance themselves from SWTOR/WOW as they realize now that advertising a game as a WoW clone should not be considered a selling point to get people interested in their MMO anymore.

 

I for one will not be playing another MMO until it is very innovative and different than a MMO I have played in the past, in particular, WoW. Developers should stop worrying about making a viable competitor in the MMO market that is nearly identical to WoW in order to appeal to that playerbase. Instead they really should be making it completely unlike WoW in order to compete with Titan, which I guarantee will probably be vastly different than WoW.

 

I suspect SWTOR will probably be the last wow clone we will see. Overall I think this is very good news for the genre, even at the expense of a game that had such a massive budget for a company eyeing major success.

 

 

RIP SWTOR "Tortanic"

Unfortunately you underestimate the stupidity factor of these developers making these games. The stupidity factor requires that you take into account that one guy on the dev team in the meeting that calls out, "HEY! WOW HAS TEN MILLION SUBS LET'S COPY THEM!" and everyone claps as they destroy their game's future.

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by Calerxes

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by Calerxes

Originally posted by Fikusthe4th

Originally posted by ShakyMo

Originally posted by Fikusthe4th

Originally posted by Calerxes

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by Calerxes

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by Calerxes

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by Loke666 Originally posted by RefMinor   So the vast majority of the 1.7m there were at 31st Dec subbed, that's anything from 1.2m to 1.69m, no mention of how many of those unsubbed at the end of Jan or the End of Feb, as a statement of subs at the time it was made in march it is essentially meaningless. The truth will out in the year end investor reports but ALL anecdotal evidence points to severe falls in numbers.Uhm, while i don't really like to take a side in that debate he actually posted links supporting his theories while you posted your own opinion.So put up some proof (at least something as good as the link) or you are losing this discussion..

 

http://www.morningstar.com/earnings/34910064-electronic-arts-inc-ea-q3-2012.aspx  These are the only official figures quoted, this is a transcript of the EA Q3 financial year 2012 (period ending dec 31st) margin call with investors. They quote 2m sales with 1.7m active ( ie 300k not activated, or activated and credit card cancelled), all the quote above said was that of those 1.7m a vast majority went on to subscribe, that may be true so all we know 1.2m to 1.69m took at least a month after the initial free period.   So for some more actual figures rather than generalised non legally binding CEO spin we need to wait for the Year End financials sometime after 31st March, this is why they are cramming in free trials to try to pick up extra subs before those figures are announced, my opinion which is in line with all anecdotal evidence is they are falling hard. Eg  http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=350700   http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/336517/page/46

 

The plural of anecdote is not data

 

I repeat all anecdotal evidence is that subs are falling fast from the Q3 figures and that we have to wait for the year End figures to see where it has gone. I repeat this because I have no idea what your statement means.

 

It means that no matter how much ancedotal evidence you have, like having more than one piece (plural) it will never be hard cold data or... 

Anecdotes like this do not prove anything. In any case where some factor affects the probability of an outcome, rather than uniquely determining it, selected individual cases prove nothing; e.g. "my grandfather smoked 40 a day until he died at 90" and "my sister never went near anyone who smoked but died of lung cancer". Anecdotes often refer to the exception, rather than the rule: "Anecdotes are useless precisely because they may point to idiosyncratic responses." Even when many anecdotes are collected to prove a point, "The plural of anecdote is not data." (Roger Brinner)

 

We can only take what the CEO of EA has said until we have other evidence that he is not telling the truth. Until that time all other theories are conjecture and assumptions. So the real truth will out with EA's quarterly finances and projections for the future.

 

Keep believing, make it happen.

 

Is that it? all you could come up with? I'm disappointed, shame really, maybe intellectual debate is not your thing.

We have history. Were EA's comments about Warhammer similar right after launch? If SWTOR subs were on the rise, EA's stock would be on fire because at this point if subs were rising, they wouldnt be stopping any time soon. Not with BF3 to draw players from among other mmos.

This is what their investors were waiting and hoping for. What are the investors doing atm? I havent been paying attention, but last I looked it seemed they couldnt interperet the situation either. I personally believe the investors would have rather seen a risk taken than to break even. But the economy sucks, and providing jobs is almost as important.

Don't get me wrong, i personally think they're rolling in cash as the suckers are busy arguing over stuff they read on the internet and EA has moved on to the next box sale scam. If they can make money, and suckers still fall for it, then everyone is happy except gamers and the long investor. But dont worry, the next title will save us lol. 

Just my opinion. Is history on your side of the debate or theirs? have we heard this song and dance before?

 

and warhammer was (before bioware got their hands on it) a better game.  EA have a really shit track record at supporting ALL their MMOs

But we're talking about comments from ceo's after a launch of an MMO and if those comments should be given the benefit of the doubt.

Im aware of EA track record. I was wondering if their track record and comments from history should be included in the debate?

 

The point is that we have to take statements on face value until we have evidence to the contrary, but of course you can have some skeptisism due to companies previous track record thats just healthy, but the problem is that many posters on here interpret statements through their own bias and you can find that out by checking their previous postings, these people have to be called out. Now its funny that it only takes a bit of patience on their part to find out if they are right, like waiting for EA quaterly report that will tell us if SW:TOR has drop dramatically in subs then they have the right to post that here everything else is speculation, assumption and conjecture not fact but many present it as such. Though I'd like to see the Warhammer Online piece you are talikng about for clarification.

 

Patience indeed, like I said lets wait for the Q4 figures

 

"I repeat all anecdotal evidence is that subs are falling fast from the Q3 figures and that we have to wait for the year End figures to see where it has gone. I repeat this because I have no idea what your statement means."

 

And for anecdotal evidence, when 100 people say my server is empty and a few say mine is full and the server metrics have gone from heavy/standard to standard/light along with XFire trending reducing users( we are unable to determine absolute numbers only trends) when the largest threads on The forums are "is TOR dying"subs are falling" and "please merge the servers" then maybe just maybe you put the wager on that horse.

 

Please could you provide a link where Riccitello says they have 1.7m subs in March, I do not believe it exists. There maybe one where he refers to the 1.7m in December quoted by Eric Brown but the 1.7m subs in March I would like to see the link and not a Massively like article that throws three or four words into a quote then builds their story around it.

 

And again THE PLURAL OF ANECDOTE IS NOT DATA. repeating the same ancdotal statements over and over again does not make it fact. Please wait for concrete evidence and then you can call John Riccitello a liar, its as simple as that.

 

And to answer you last one its in the piece I posted from massively if you choose to interpret it another way thats your call.

 

Why would I be calling Riccitello a liar, he was referring to the Brown comments, all I asked for was a link to where he said 1.7m in March, I do not believe he said that, the massively article does not quote him saying that. He spun the gaming journalists, he gave a plausible sounding answer that did not say 1.7m current subscribers.

If a CEO of one of the largest gaming companies in the world makes a statement that is in any way false investers will not be happy and shareprices will drop and John Riccitello's job is to keep the share price as high as possible keeping EA an attractive investment opportunity. This can all be varified in EA's quarterly reports so he is on thin ice if he has so you can believe all you want about what you think hew said and thats the point you are interpreting the statement through you're own bias, as is shown with your negative attitude towards the game.

Originally posted by Calerxes

If a CEO of one of the largest gaming companies in the world makes a statement that is in any way false investers will not be happy and shareprices will drop and John Riccitello's job is to keep the share price as high as possible keeping EA an attractive investment opportunity. This can all be varified in EA's quarterly reports so he is on thin ice if he has so you can believe all you want about what you think hew said and thats the point you are interpreting the statement through you're own bias, as is shown with your negative attitude towards the game.

First of sll, clean out the quotes once in a while.

He can say a lot of fuzzy stuff to hype the stock, that is true but he can´t actually lie on stuff that easily will be proven pretty soon.

If he did that he would truly kill his own career, he needs the stockholders to trust him. No, I don't like him at all but outright lies is not his style. Half truths on the other hand is his bread and butter.

I remember when Activision actually made great games. that stopped almost at the same time they moved from C-64 and Amiga to PC. 

bump

Please dont necro threads.