A couple of points

It will happen. It takes time. You have to remember that the people with the money and the puppet strings arent gamers, they are life long business execs and soulless suits, they know what the learned in school and what has sold in the past. They sat in their corner office while they watched WoW change an entire genre and become huge and they said "Well... fuck. Thats how you make a billion off an MMORPG? Thats easy."

Video games are an industry. If Toyota comes out with a fuel effecient hybrid that becomes one of the most popular cars in 20 years Ford and GM arent going to say "People on the internet are saying this is a pussy car, they want a 600hp v12 because its cool. Fuck hybrids"

We may look at TOR and think what a failure, f2p "I fucking told you! I was right!" but really, this f2p change is going to make EA A LOT OF MONEY, and that means A LOT MORE THAN A FORUM POST FROM PENISHEAD666 OR WOW4FAGGUTSXx

Originally posted by Xobdnas

Agree but its hard to know who is worth listening to. I see gw2 posts asking for more hand holding, more typical quests, more gear grind, wrf is wrong with players? We need less less less of all control and grind and more freedom and independance to make content ourselves.

Doesn't it make you sick?  I literally can't wrap my head around what these people see in having little 15-30 minute chunks of supposed entertainment.

I'm one of those weird people that wants things to take a long time.  Its like having a 800 page fantasy novel vs a 80 page novel.  I mean realistically, what kind of story are you really going to be able to tell in 80 pages.

I just dont get it because MMOs have become the 150 pg novella to games like EQ1 and UO's 6 part 1000 page per book fantasy series

pride, ego.

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Originally posted by Hrimnir

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Originally posted by Xobdnas Agree but its hard to know who is worth listening to. I see gw2 posts asking for more hand holding, more typical quests, more gear grind, wrf is wrong with players? We need less less less of all control and grind and more freedom and independance to make content ourselves.

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Doesn't it make you sick?  I literally can't wrap my head around what these people see in having little 15-30 minute chunks of supposed entertainment.

I'm one of those weird people that wants things to take a long time.  Its like having a 800 page fantasy novel vs a 80 page novel.  I mean realistically, what kind of story are you really going to be able to tell in 80 pages.

I just dont get it because MMOs have become the 150 pg novella to games like EQ1 and UO's 6 part 1000 page per book fantasy series

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I think its a generation thing. Im old i want a world to live in and view mmos as the door to that world. The me gen view mmos as another game to check off the accomplishment list.

Originally posted by Xobdnas

 

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Originally posted by Hrimnir

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Originally posted by Xobdnas Agree but its hard to know who is worth listening to. I see gw2 posts asking for more hand holding, more typical quests, more gear grind, wrf is wrong with players? We need less less less of all control and grind and more freedom and independance to make content ourselves.

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Doesn't it make you sick?  I literally can't wrap my head around what these people see in having little 15-30 minute chunks of supposed entertainment.

 

I'm one of those weird people that wants things to take a long time.  Its like having a 800 page fantasy novel vs a 80 page novel.  I mean realistically, what kind of story are you really going to be able to tell in 80 pages.

I just dont get it because MMOs have become the 150 pg novella to games like EQ1 and UO's 6 part 1000 page per book fantasy series

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I think its a generation thing. Im old i want a world to live in and view mmos as the door to that world. The me gen view mmos as another game to check off the accomplishment list.

But you see thats the problem perfectly described right there...the "me" generation has CONSOLE games for that that can be played online with others for hours of fun. an MMO is a viurtal world, your screen is the window. The developers have lost sight of this, ( well, besides team Rocket at DayZ and maybe CCP ).

Originally posted by Charas

Originally posted by evilastro

Some are even naive enough to think that niche concepts such as permadeath, full loot PvP and sandbox games will gain a mainstream level of subscribers.

Most industry professionals like yourself said the same thing about the MMO genre as a whole before WoW.

Well, where ARE the permadeath, full loot PvP, sandbox games?

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Originally posted by alexanys1982

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Originally posted by Xobdnas  

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Originally posted by Hrimnir

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Originally posted by Xobdnas Agree but its hard to know who is worth listening to. I see gw2 posts asking for more hand holding, more typical quests, more gear grind, wrf is wrong with players? We need less less less of all control and grind and more freedom and independance to make content ourselves.

---

Doesn't it make you sick?  I literally can't wrap my head around what these people see in having little 15-30 minute chunks of supposed entertainment.   I'm one of those weird people that wants things to take a long time.  Its like having a 800 page fantasy novel vs a 80 page novel.  I mean realistically, what kind of story are you really going to be able to tell in 80 pages. I just dont get it because MMOs have become the 150 pg novella to games like EQ1 and UO's 6 part 1000 page per book fantasy series

---

  I think its a generation thing. Im old i want a world to live in and view mmos as the door to that world. The me gen view mmos as another game to check off the accomplishment list.

---

But you see thats the problem perfectly described right there...the "me" generation has CONSOLE games for that that can be played online with others for hours of fun. an MMO is a viurtal world, your screen is the window. The developers have lost sight of this, ( well, besides team Rocket at DayZ and maybe CCP ).

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Day z is up to 900k subs making it more successful than swtor. Sandbox!

Originally posted by Xobdnas

 

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Originally posted by alexanys1982

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Originally posted by Xobdnas  

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Originally posted by Hrimnir

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Originally posted by Xobdnas Agree but its hard to know who is worth listening to. I see gw2 posts asking for more hand holding, more typical quests, more gear grind, wrf is wrong with players? We need less less less of all control and grind and more freedom and independance to make content ourselves.

---

Doesn't it make you sick?  I literally can't wrap my head around what these people see in having little 15-30 minute chunks of supposed entertainment.   I'm one of those weird people that wants things to take a long time.  Its like having a 800 page fantasy novel vs a 80 page novel.  I mean realistically, what kind of story are you really going to be able to tell in 80 pages. I just dont get it because MMOs have become the 150 pg novella to games like EQ1 and UO's 6 part 1000 page per book fantasy series

---

  I think its a generation thing. Im old i want a world to live in and view mmos as the door to that world. The me gen view mmos as another game to check off the accomplishment list.

---

But you see thats the problem perfectly described right there...the "me" generation has CONSOLE games for that that can be played online with others for hours of fun. an MMO is a viurtal world, your screen is the window. The developers have lost sight of this, ( well, besides team Rocket at DayZ and maybe CCP ).

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Day z is up to 900k subs making it more successful than swtor. Sandbox!

Ya, i cant wait to start throwing out the dayz numbers next time some bubblehead says "america no like sandbox" lol

Originally posted by alexanys1982

Originally posted by Xobdnas

 

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Originally posted by alexanys1982

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Originally posted by Xobdnas  

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Originally posted by Hrimnir

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Originally posted by Xobdnas Agree but its hard to know who is worth listening to. I see gw2 posts asking for more hand holding, more typical quests, more gear grind, wrf is wrong with players? We need less less less of all control and grind and more freedom and independance to make content ourselves.

---

Doesn't it make you sick?  I literally can't wrap my head around what these people see in having little 15-30 minute chunks of supposed entertainment.   I'm one of those weird people that wants things to take a long time.  Its like having a 800 page fantasy novel vs a 80 page novel.  I mean realistically, what kind of story are you really going to be able to tell in 80 pages. I just dont get it because MMOs have become the 150 pg novella to games like EQ1 and UO's 6 part 1000 page per book fantasy series

---

  I think its a generation thing. Im old i want a world to live in and view mmos as the door to that world. The me gen view mmos as another game to check off the accomplishment list.

---

But you see thats the problem perfectly described right there...the "me" generation has CONSOLE games for that that can be played online with others for hours of fun. an MMO is a viurtal world, your screen is the window. The developers have lost sight of this, ( well, besides team Rocket at DayZ and maybe CCP ).

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Day z is up to 900k subs making it more successful than swtor. Sandbox!

Ya, i cant wait to start throwing out the dayz numbers next time some bubblehead says "america no like sandbox" lol

ya they dont'.  They like hardcore fps...

It's not even a mmorpg.  Maybe you can throw the numbers on Eve or when Warz became a success.

Originally posted by laokoko

Originally posted by alexanys1982

Originally posted by Xobdnas

 

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Originally posted by alexanys1982

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Originally posted by Xobdnas  

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Originally posted by Hrimnir

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Originally posted by Xobdnas Agree but its hard to know who is worth listening to. I see gw2 posts asking for more hand holding, more typical quests, more gear grind, wrf is wrong with players? We need less less less of all control and grind and more freedom and independance to make content ourselves.

---

Doesn't it make you sick?  I literally can't wrap my head around what these people see in having little 15-30 minute chunks of supposed entertainment.   I'm one of those weird people that wants things to take a long time.  Its like having a 800 page fantasy novel vs a 80 page novel.  I mean realistically, what kind of story are you really going to be able to tell in 80 pages. I just dont get it because MMOs have become the 150 pg novella to games like EQ1 and UO's 6 part 1000 page per book fantasy series

---

  I think its a generation thing. Im old i want a world to live in and view mmos as the door to that world. The me gen view mmos as another game to check off the accomplishment list.

---

But you see thats the problem perfectly described right there...the "me" generation has CONSOLE games for that that can be played online with others for hours of fun. an MMO is a viurtal world, your screen is the window. The developers have lost sight of this, ( well, besides team Rocket at DayZ and maybe CCP ).

---

 

Day z is up to 900k subs making it more successful than swtor. Sandbox!

Ya, i cant wait to start throwing out the dayz numbers next time some bubblehead says "america no like sandbox" lol

ya they dont'.  They like hardcore fps...

It's not even a mmorpg.  Maybe you can throw the numbers on Eve or when Warz became a success.

its only a hardcore fps because its in alpha, sandboxy goodness is inc dont you worry =). Also, Warz is going the route of "accessible" another word for wow clone + zombies.

so warz going to be a mmorpg? And have a public server where everyone play from?  I'm not sure what they mean by you play as a session.

Originally posted by laokoko

so warz going to be a mmorpg? And have a public server where everyone play from?  I'm not sure what they mean by you play as a session.

I'm guessing that it is similar in nature to an instance system for the worlds but who knows?  WarZ is just a concept right now regardless of what they've said.

MMOs should copy Day Z's "Players in the past 24 hours" stat and put it on their front page.  I wonder why they dont do that....

Originally posted by Hrimnir

Doesn't it make you sick?  I literally can't wrap my head around what these people see in having little 15-30 minute chunks of supposed entertainment.

You post that it makes you sick that other people play video games differently than you (#1stworldproblemz, maybe?) and then wonder why devs don't heed your sagely wisdom.

Originally posted by Castillle

MMOs should copy Day Z's "Players in the past 24 hours" stat and put it on their front page.  I wonder why they dont do that....

http://community.eveonline.com/ - bottom of the right column.

The problem is that not everyone likes the same thing, Some people enjoy Swtor though others like me think it was the worst mmo I have played in the last 7 years.

But MMO studios do read the interwebz, that is part of the problem actually, while you may get small, cynical and controversial views on MMORPG.com it is actually not representative of the larger MMORPG population or people that may be interested in MMO's. So I would say ( sadly :(  ) that if anything MMO studios are listening too much to people, this is what causes this reinvent cycle that we have been having over the years.

Actually I am not entirely sure this is a bad thing, I have actually seen more people move over to what I would call the "mmorpg.com" camp where people have started to get tired of the same MMORPG model we have been having ( not because they are bad, but because while they mask themselves as revolutionary, they are in essence the same model of MMORPG ), which means that hopefully over time the genre will switch focus to something else until that becomes "more of the same", one can only hope.

Originally posted by Xobdnas

Day z is up to 900k subs making it more successful than swtor. Sandbox!

Hmm Day Z is FREE.

There are plenty of F2P games with millions of players. How many does LOL has? Maple Story? Even Free Realsm have multiple million players.

900k is nothing amazing for a free game.

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Originally posted by k-damage

Look at mmorpg.com : it's not so rare to find a very well constructed thread, with intelligent people having a perfectly mature discussion about what would or would not work for a precise feature in MMOs (housing, combat, etc).

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Yeah, especially on SWTOR forums these days...

There is a difference between "a very well constructed thread, with intelligent people having a perfectly mature discussion" and illusory superiority...

I'm shocked noone has said this before: Its because the interwebz is full of idiots. OK maybe they're not all idiots, but they're ignorant. Just because you scribble something on your napkin doesn't mean it is good, or someone should make it.

Customer is not always right. Hell, customer is rarely right. We don't know want we want. We think we do but really we don't. Even if we did, we don't know how to express ourselves.