The internet contains all the information you could possibly need about a game before purchasing.  With a grain of salt, a few google searches and the patience to not purchase on day one, you can know exactly what you're getting into before purchasing.  Really, who should we be pointing fingers at when you had every opportunity to obtain that information, but decided against it.

Originally posted by Scarlyng

MMO consumers continue to throw money at companies who produce flawed products.  By flawed I mean seriously so, not "Has some bugs" because that will always be the case.  As long as people keep paying, then all the complaining will accomplish nothing towards changing this state of affairs.

The issue being "seriously flawed" to a real, average player is not the same as "seriously flawed" to an angry MMORPG Bittervet (who almost by definition considers every MMORPG "seriously flawed".)

Originally posted by Starpower

Just like with any product, it is YOUR responsibility to do proper research before you invest your money in it.

So I have my car repaired at the garage - they do a bad job.  Instead of everyone saying, yes, that garage should improve its standards - you get the blame for not 'researching' the fact that they generally do bad work.

Sure, its good practical advice for consumers to research a little - but really we should not have to.   (Its a bit like, I get burgled and I left the door unlocked - foolish yes, but it doesn't absolve the thief of any of the blame for carrying out an illegal activity)

If people advertise and provide a service, it should be upto a level of reasonable expectation (i.e. what was advertised!).  If it isn't we shouldn't blame the consumer - the service provider should rightly be blamed.

Originally posted by Axehilt

The issue being "seriously flawed" to a real, average player is not the same as "seriously flawed" to an angry MMORPG Bittervet (who almost by definition considers every MMORPG "seriously flawed".)

Someone SIG that, STAT!

Originally posted by Starpower

Just like with any product, it is YOUR responsibility to do proper research before you invest your money in it.

 

Sadly that's not how it is with games. People will buy a game a whole year before the game is released. Now who is really to blame here?

There are people out there that will pay good money just to get into closed betas. Gamers are impulsive and impatient. They will gladly pay money before they even know about any feature in a game, simply because a certain company made it, or because they love the IP. I realize I'm making some broad generalizations here but lets face it. Gamers are not known to wait for trials, open betas or even waiting 3 - 5 months after a game is released to make sure a game has been fixed to a playable state/all features added. It's true you can't rely on third hand accounts if you will like something, but a little common sense is in order.

So, in order to clarify your view on the subject, can you please describe your game list to us and the date you bought them?

I do find it funny, so, tell me, do you research for the car you buy? Yes? Where? Magazines? Or you go find every component history in the car, see where it got manufactured to see how reliable it is? You do the same with everything you buy? TVs? Food? Cloth? Cats and dogs and kitchen knives?

So, and im not saying i completely disagree with everything you wrote, you are also stating we cant trust gaming sites and their previews or early made reviews? Because lets face it, most reviews come 2 to 5 weeks after game launches and most trials come way later than that, and if we have to wait for them its like saying we cant trust on what gaming sites have to say?

So, if a gaming sites says, ahh let me see, Diablo 3 is a great game and "ill be going there for months and years" and we buy it and clearly state the game is broken full of exploits and bugs, can we count that as proper research made and we can push that responsability to that magazine/site?

Clearly, for me, it is the LABEL responsability to deliver a quality product and its YOUR responsability to demand a refund and boicott that label if the game is low quality, so they can feel the weight of their actions.

To clarify things for you:

http://www.consumersinternational.org/who-we-are/consumer-rights

The part where i agree with you:

The right to consumer education - To acquire knowledge and skills needed to make informed, confident choices about goods and services, while being aware of basic consumer rights and responsibilities and how to act on them

The part wich you and others fail to see:

The right to be informed - To be given the facts needed to make an informed choice, and to be protected against dishonest or misleading advertising and labelling.

Originally posted by IstrebiteI

Worst of all, consumers were pushed to a state when they dont expect to get anything for their money.

What happened?

 Its called dumbing down...or rampant fanboism.

So yeah, basically what I said was that anyone that tells you that you have no right to say or expect anything are either idiots or bent over fanboys.

Originally posted by rdrakken

Originally posted by IstrebiteI

Worst of all, consumers were pushed to a state when they dont expect to get anything for their money.

What happened?

 Its called dumbing down...or rampant fanboism.

Funny, I would have called it "Specious Bovine Caca."  Huh, your mileage will vary, I guess.

Originally posted by rdrakken

Originally posted by IstrebiteI

Worst of all, consumers were pushed to a state when they dont expect to get anything for their money.

What happened?

 Its called dumbing down...or rampant fanboism.

So yeah, basically what I said was that anyone that tells you that you have no right to say or expect anything are either idiots or bent over fanboys.

uh? I expect to get hours and hours of fun when i buy an enteratinment product .. and that is exactly what happened whenever i bought a game.

Originally posted by IstrebiteI

Greetings.

Worst of all, consumers were pushed to a state when they dont expect to get anything for their money.

What happened?

Consumers stopped being discerning.

If you tell every company in the world that you are willing to settle for crap....thats what they will sell you.

Your example about bootmakers in the past says it all...the consumer would refuse to accept poor qualtiy merchandise. The basic principles of capitalism tell companies to make the most profit possible. If consumers are discerning this will mean that teh company that produces the best product will make the most money. Competition to produce the best product ensues.

But if consumers are willing to buy just about anything regardless of quality...we are telling companies that the route to profit is minimized resource expenditure. Cut corners and rush a product to market, regardless of readiness for consumption, for maximum possible profit !

What happened you ask ?

We, the consumers, stopped caring. We got lazy. Complaining on a forum AFTER weve made the producers of the most recent pile of garbage tens of millions of dollars is too late.

This only means that the consumers voted with their wallet.

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

---

Originally posted by IstrebiteI

 

Basically, when in dark medieval days you bought a pair of boots, you could rely on them being quality product that will serve you well. And if not, you could come back to the marketplace, slap the vendor with the boots you bought, and that was the worst humiliation for the vendor and noone would buy from him afterwards.

---

 

Source?

Developers are not responsible for your expectations, especially if you expect same service and guarantees of console off-line game in an MMO.

You can only blame yourself.

Have a nice day.

When did consumers become such chumps?

Originally posted by Starpower

Just like with any product, it is YOUR responsibility to do proper research before you invest your money in it.

 

Sadly that's not how it is with games. People will buy a game a whole year before the game is released. Now who is really to blame here?

There are people out there that will pay good money just to get into closed betas. Gamers are impulsive and impatient. They will gladly pay money before they even know about any feature in a game, simply because a certain company made it, or because they love the IP. I realize I'm making some broad generalizations here but lets face it. Gamers are not known to wait for trials, open betas or even waiting 3 - 5 months after a game is released to make sure a game has been fixed to a playable state/all features added. It's true you can't rely on third hand accounts if you will like something, but a little common sense is in order.

I generally agree with this, however (lol) I am someone who has waited and will continue to wait for Lime Odyssey to relaunch. Yes the forums have had a number of rage filled "why isn't it out yet" posts. But most of the community is patient and willing to wait if that results in a better product. As one of the (very lucky) few who got to participate in both Alpha tests, I can truthfully say that this game will be worth the wait. Even for an AT it was pretty well polished, and very fun to play. Too bad they rushed the Korean and Thai versions to OBT...

And paying to participate in a CBT? Are you mad? Lemme get this straight, you want me to pay you to test your product for you. LOL!!!

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by Scarlyng

MMO consumers continue to throw money at companies who produce flawed products.  By flawed I mean seriously so, not "Has some bugs" because that will always be the case.  As long as people keep paying, then all the complaining will accomplish nothing towards changing this state of affairs.

The issue being "seriously flawed" to a real, average player is not the same as "seriously flawed" to an angry MMORPG Bittervet (who almost by definition considers every MMORPG "seriously flawed".)

ANd how many Bittervets throw money at companies with each new game, hoping this one will restore the lost lustre of the past?

Originally posted by ariasaitcho

Originally posted by Starpower

Just like with any product, it is YOUR responsibility to do proper research before you invest your money in it.

 

Sadly that's not how it is with games. People will buy a game a whole year before the game is released. Now who is really to blame here?

There are people out there that will pay good money just to get into closed betas. Gamers are impulsive and impatient. They will gladly pay money before they even know about any feature in a game, simply because a certain company made it, or because they love the IP. I realize I'm making some broad generalizations here but lets face it. Gamers are not known to wait for trials, open betas or even waiting 3 - 5 months after a game is released to make sure a game has been fixed to a playable state/all features added. It's true you can't rely on third hand accounts if you will like something, but a little common sense is in order.

And paying to participate in a CBT? Are you mad? Lemme get this straight, you want me to pay you to test your product for you. LOL!!!

It's crazy but closed beta accounts can easily sell for several hundred bucks.. I know people who sold a few. It depends on the game though and how high profile it is

It just goes to show how desperate people are to be the early bird. Those same people have no problems complaining about shoddy products either even though they are largely responsible for squandering their own money.

Something as simple as a bad console port, can be avoided if gamers simply had the patience to wait and see. Dungeon Siege 3 comes to mind. It even had a demo

So if I'm happy with all the games I've bought lately, does that mean that I have lower standards or just that I'm a more discerning customer? D:

Either way, I'm happy, so what do I care?  Haha.

Originally posted by Tawn47

Originally posted by Starpower

Just like with any product, it is YOUR responsibility to do proper research before you invest your money in it.

So I have my car repaired at the garage - they do a bad job.  Instead of everyone saying, yes, that garage should improve its standards - you get the blame for not 'researching' the fact that they generally do bad work.

You always check for references even if you hire somebody to put up a new kitchen. It doesn't prevent you from getting screwed over by somebody who lists friends and family as references or a contractor that hired F tards to work on it, but it's always better than to do things blindly. Same goes for buying games. Analogies are great and all but software and games are a different beast in many ways. You have a more vocal community that will let you know if you are buying a PoS that's missing half of its features. The argument about "shouldn't have to do research" is moot. We are living in the information age. Even since the dawn of time, people have been asking for references, reviews and word of mouth. Then we have a group of people who thinks we should live in a perfect world where you can just pick something up in a store and it will be grade A quality, because that's how the world ought to work..

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by rdrakken

Originally posted by IstrebiteI

Worst of all, consumers were pushed to a state when they dont expect to get anything for their money.

What happened?

 Its called dumbing down...or rampant fanboism.

So yeah, basically what I said was that anyone that tells you that you have no right to say or expect anything are either idiots or bent over fanboys.

uh? I expect to get hours and hours of fun when i buy an enteratinment product .. and that is exactly what happened whenever i bought a game.

 

 Uh? you may want to re-read what I quoted...He asked, I answered, it went over your head.

Originally posted by Scarlyng

ANd how many Bittervets throw money at companies with each new game, hoping this one will restore the lost lustre of the past?

Yeah, there's quite a few.

It's like my story of Joe, a few threads back.  Joe tried a Cheeseburger for the first time a while back, and discovered he loved Cheeseburgers.  Then he only ate Cheeseburgers for a year straight.  Nowadays he complains about how, despite trying different cheeses and adding bacon, most Cheeseburgers are the same.  His friends suggest that if he wants something different, he should try something different.

Bittervets are a lot like Joe.

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by Scarlyng

ANd how many Bittervets throw money at companies with each new game, hoping this one will restore the lost lustre of the past?

Yeah, there's quite a few.

It's like my story of Joe, a few threads back.  Joe tried a Cheeseburger for the first time a while back, and discovered he loved Cheeseburgers.  Then he only ate Cheeseburgers for a year straight.  Nowadays he complains about how, despite trying different cheeses and adding bacon, most Cheeseburgers are the same.  His friends suggest that if he wants something different, he should try something different.

Bittervets are a lot like Joe.

Like "Joe" is real.

How about a more appropriate analogy? The guy who wants a good steak, but all he can find are fast food joints. But the fast food managers keep telling him "that can't be done."

And some guy on a message board named Axemeat who flips burgers keeps saying that the guy is just bitter.