My personal TOP 5:

#5: Design Philosphy: mMorpg

#4: They are confident to take risks in multiple design areas.

#3: Their information policy.

#2: They deliver what they promise.

#1: No super cool and expensive looking CGI Trailers that promises ultimate Epicness! This was my personal reason to hate SWTOR, I saw much potential within the IP, I saw an EPIC CGI Trailer they talked about Space Combat, etc... But then I saw gameplay footage of both combat and space...-.-

Originally posted by Muntz

Sure because you need to see the future to know what is going to happen. The only real conclusion I can draw is that most MMO's disappoint some people, sometimes its a large number and sometimes it's a vocal number. 

There's some pretty vocal subgroups that cry "doom" full-time in MMOspace.

But it isn't their fault; the only person(s) to blame are consumers who can't/won't do their own research.

We all know the likely result of asking random jamokes on the internet which car to buy.  Don't seem to quite grasp that, with games.

Originally posted by BigRock411

But thanks for responding, i think the overwhelming answer to my question: "Whats different this time around" was an astounding "NOTHING"

Given all your other posts regarding GW2, it would seem that you found what you wanted to find.

Hope TSW continues to work out for you.

Hype is hype and thats all it is.

Originally posted by Muntz

Sure because you need to see the future to know what is going to happen. The only real conclusion I can draw is that most MMO's disappoint some people, sometimes its a large number and sometimes it's a vocal number. 

"Good, Bad, I'm the one with the gun" the proverbial gun being new and unexperienced for a few months worth of play by the masses. Same song and dance everytime, so no you don't need to see the future to know the outcome. The detractors will come out of the woodwork to save us all, it's inevitable with the game being good or bad.

Originally posted by QuicklyScott

Originally posted by eyelolled

I'm really curious to where people get this "OMG GW2 is soooooo hyped"  I honestly don't know anyone saying anything to make it sound like it's going cure cancer (other than in jest)  It's just that the amount of consumers that are responding to the changes brought about by Anet's design is huge. People are treating it as if the game is promising the impossible, but really it's just promising what alot of people want.

Threads like this.  http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/355084

 Every time somebody whips out that thread, all I can think is that some people must be really desperate if they think that post is even remotely indicative of a normal person.

You can't use extremely rare outliers (And what may be, from the posting history, possibly somebody who hates GW2 and is parodying the fans through extremes) to try and show that this is some sort of even mildly common viewpoint.  There's more GW2 fans disagreeing with him than there anything.

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by Muntz

Sure because you need to see the future to know what is going to happen. The only real conclusion I can draw is that most MMO's disappoint some people, sometimes its a large number and sometimes it's a vocal number. 

There's some pretty vocal subgroups that cry "doom" full-time in MMOspace.

But it isn't their fault; the only person(s) to blame are consumers who can't/won't do their own research.

We all know the likely result of asking random jamokes on the internet which car to buy.  Don't seem to quite grasp that, with games.

True but it's also true that many people hype games and also often think a new MMO is the best since sliced bread the first few weeks after release before reality sets in and they change their mind.

I'm not saying GW2 is bad by any means (and I hope it's still succesful after the first few months) but I will sit back and wait to buy it for a while, just like I will with TSW (that I might buy when they release the two new zones (probably playing for one-two months) and done some decent polish otherwise).

Originally posted by BigRock411

 

But thanks for responding, i think the overwhelming answer to my question: "Whats different this time around" was an astounding "NOTHING"

 

ya, nothing has changed but the game and experience the fans have had with it.

which some people think is the most important part of the equation, you obviously don't.

would be an interesting perspective if it were held for novel reasons but alas.. i do not think it is. 

oh, and icewhite (i think) brought up game tattoos.. 

http://www.arena.net/blog/the-dev-with-the-dragon-tattoo

I don't mind if someone doesn't like the game, i don't mind if someone doesn't like the style of combat, but I do mind and so do many others if the reasons why you don't like the game, are due lies.

People are loving this title because of the developers. We are all saying FINALLY there's a set of developers that actually CARE what the players want in a game.

We're saying it's about time that there's a company making a game that not only fulfills all the promises they've made about their game since day one, but also, doesn't follow any questionable practices in prices, store content, or quality.

It's not hype anymore when it becomes fact.

Originally posted by itgrowls

I don't mind if someone doesn't like the game, i don't mind if someone doesn't like the style of combat, but I do mind and so do many others if the reasons why you don't like the game, are due lies.

 People are loving this title because of the developers. We are all saying FINALLY there's a set of developers that actually CARE what the players want in a game.

We're saying it's about time that there's a company making a game that not only fulfills all the promises they've made about their game since day one, but also, doesn't follow any questionable practices in prices, store content, or quality.

It's not hype anymore when it becomes fact.

 

Just because you had the opportunity to play for maybe 8-10 days hardly qualifies you being able to factually guarantee the game delivers on every promise; that it fully provides a product that is based on what the collective players want in an MMO.

What you are doing right now is hyping based on your limited experience.

It's easy to drink the kool-aid.  Much more difficult to face reality.

Originally posted by grimal

Originally posted by itgrowls

I don't mind if someone doesn't like the game, i don't mind if someone doesn't like the style of combat, but I do mind and so do many others if the reasons why you don't like the game, are due lies.

 People are loving this title because of the developers. We are all saying FINALLY there's a set of developers that actually CARE what the players want in a game.

We're saying it's about time that there's a company making a game that not only fulfills all the promises they've made about their game since day one, but also, doesn't follow any questionable practices in prices, store content, or quality.

It's not hype anymore when it becomes fact.

 

Just because you had the opportunity to play for maybe 8-10 days hardly qualifies you being able to factually guarantee the game delivers on every promise; that it fully provides a product that is based on what the collective players want in an MMO.

What you are doing right now is hyping based on your limited experience.

It's easy to drink the kool-aid.  Much more difficult to face reality.

Just because people like you don't like the game doesn't mean that those of us who like the game and have been through hours of footage about features, seen the beta content, read every article since the betas bave begun are somehow wrong. 

There are facts out there. Since this is not an end game centric game you can best believe that anyone reaching level 30 would see enough to know all the features of the title.

[mod edit]

Contrary to your logical fallacy, one doesn't have to play through the entire game to see all of the features as they exist. Content is a different story, but features are right there staring you in the face. Welcome back to reality.

It's fantastic ... no really, if I was a sociologist or even a psychiatrist, I would just delect myself with how many people can't simply accept the fact that they fail to see the good things in a game. And want the whole world to pay for it.

Please, haters, go on, just go on. I'm watching you.

It could be that since there is no sub fee, Anet needs to maximize their box purchases. So we get hit from every angle appealing to our wallet. You like mmos? You'll love GW2. You hate mmos? You'll really like GW2. Humanize the dev team and make them feel like family. Appeal to your morals. Act like you're on the consumer's side. Talk shit on the competition. Demonize features that aren't in your game. Distance yourself from the corporate machine. Use lots of buzzwords. Get as many people on board before launch as you can because all you need is that initial 60 bucks and you're golden. Offer beta access for pre purchase.

The game is well made. But the marketing is superb.

Why is the GW2 different? Why do many of us think this game "has legs", beyond a good first impression?

Those are fair questions. I guess first I should say that in the beta events, GW2 has shown at least the level of polish seen in other MMOs that have had successful launches. Stability was good, performance good to great. Nice UI, solid, smooth controls. Great production quality. Beautiful world. Good classes, (professions), interesting mobs, etc... Of course, other games have provided a good first impression as well and then gone on to falter in the months after launch.

I think one good sign and something that gives GW2 an advantage over most post-WoW MMOs is that the developers understand the need for content and world size. GW2's world is one of the largest at launch Worlds since WoW and puts games like Rift or TSW to shame in that reguard. GW2 also understand the benefits of offering content redundancy and seperate starter zones for every race. This greatly increases replayability, which puts GW2 in sharp contrast to games that often don't even have enough quest content to get players to the cap with out repeating content or grinding mobs.

Combat in the game is superb. Profession design is good. The 10 skill action bar and having your weapon set determine your first five skills provide manageable variety. There is no Holy-trinity of Tank/DPS/Healer in this game and all professions have a self heal, plus the ability to make builds for their profession that can meet various roles and allow various strategies. The freedom to tailor your role outside of combat helps to ensure that players can always mix things up if they start to get bored with a certain approach, rather than having to switch professions for access to different playstyles.

Being able to use most skills while moving makes a huge difference in the feel of combat. As does the active dodge, (along with many mobs that have skills that make proper use of the dodge important even in PvE). It's very difficult to go back to other MMOs where you have to stop moving for most skills and there is no dodge mechanic.

GW2's developers have really hit gold with their approach to providing PvE content for the game. Dynamic Events are a huge revolution for PvE content delivery in the genre. Some may argue that DEs are just an advanced evolution of War's PQs and Rift's Rifts, but it doesn't matter. No one else has made a commitment to making Dynamic content the bulk of the PvE content in a game and making the events themselves are much more complex. Chaining together events in a progression that can move in either direction, based on player success/failure; taking most events of a set timer; having event chains that can branch, interact with other events or even create a vast web of iteraction between events over an entire map, all push the concept well beyond the experiments with dynamic content seen in a couple previous games.

The world is massive, immersive and a lot of fun to play in. There is a huge pool of content, presenting massive amounts of content redundancy. The nature of the Dynamic Events ensures that you can visit the same zone many times and encounter events you have never seen before. Production Quality and Level of Detail are through the roof on this game. Not only is there a ton of content and a massive world space, but the game's design further amplifies those advantages exponentially in the way that you can influence the content that becomes available through your interaction with events and encounter different sets of events every time you visit an area of the game.

The game also has a very extensive feature set. There are no important features from the genre that I can think of that are missing or not up to par.

All these things together may have been enough to put the game in the same class as vanilla WoW, as far as potential for huge, long term success in the context of the era in which the game is being released.

However, I think what shoots the game well over the top is the way the game design facilitates cooperative game play, while also ensuring that as you progress, the pool of content available to you just increases as you go. GW2 tries to take players out of competition with each other when it comes to PvE content in the game. Dynamic Events have shared goals, they are not individual. Every player that attacks a mob gets full XP and full loot, the same as if they had killed it alone. This includes drops needed for DE turn ins. There is no reason to ever groan when another player happens along to participate in the same content as you, or to kill the same mobs you are killing.

Events will scale up with more players, so you don't have to worry about a fun event ending too quickly, just because other people arrive on the scene to participate.

Also, the game has Dynamic Level Scaling, which scales down your effective level when in lower level areas of the game. You earn XP and loot based on your true level, with only a slight drop off in productivity and reward for doing lower level content. This means that higher level characters can't show up and wipe out all the mobs during an event. This means that you can revisit lower level areas of the game to experience content you missed, adventure with lower level friends or guild mates and seek out free DE content that has been added to the game since you last adventured in an area.

The game also offers a pretty good crafting/gathering system. A game economy that links all servers in one region of the world via a shared Trading Post (AH). Stuctured PvP, from casual matches to organized team tournaments.There is also World vs World vs World open environment PvE, which occurs in four massive game zones, containing Fortresses, Towers, Resource Camps and even PvE based Dynamic events, with an ongoing score and server wide benefits for everyone based on your server's success and achievments.

Don't forget the 8 5-man Dungeons. Each has an easier Story Mode and at least three Exploration Mode areas, which work like Dungeon Wings in other games and are further enhanced by Dynamic Events with in the dungeons and random or semi random appearances by additional DEs or Bosses, designed to ensure that repeated runs of any Dungeon Wing are not always predictable.

There are also a bunch of fun activities/mini-games to participate in as well.

It's a fun game. It's a very fun game.

The world is huge.

The content is very dynamic, very plentiful and there is much redundancy of content and tons of freedom for charting one's own course through the game.

It's a game one can imagine being immersed in for months or years and for thousands of total play hours. I think that last part is the important culmination of the overall game design. In an era were many MMOS can't even provide 100 hours of game play before people get bored and leave, the prospect of a game that can provide 1,000+ hours of play at release holds great potential for success, espescially since it also provides everything else you would expect from a successful MMO.

You know, every article I read, on every creditable site I visit, has had nothing but glowing recommendations for this game. I have not seen that kind of feedback for any game thus far. Is it really hype if so many enjoy it?

Originally posted by BigRock411

The main question i want to pose to everyone here, seeing how opinion is overhelmingly positive that this is going to be the next major game....what about GW2 and the lead up to launch has been different to other games that had just as much positive pre-launch support?

We can look back through the years and see the very same type of overwhelmimg positive opinion for a lot of games prior to launch, games that include AOC/WAR/AION/RIFT/SWTOR theres a lot more but those where the major ones i remember.  Nothing bad was to be said about the listed games, they all were going to be different, ground breaking, had nothing but stellar beta feedback (and when there wasnt stellar beta feedback anything negative was flamed to dust).

I see a lot of similairities with this launch and those others, mainly the high expectations that always seem to be true prior to launch but seem to be just a veil of perfection several weeks later.

I wouldn't say all those games you mentioned had as much positive pre-launch support, at least not on the players' side. The main difference, in my opinion, is that while, for example, EA spent a metric sh*tton of money to advertise SWTOR, most of the GW2 hype is player-generated. Sure, all the major releases have their share of fanbois, but I can honestly say that I have never in my 10+ years of MMO gaming seen the amount of player-generated hype this game has. 

This is both a good and a bad thing - good because GW2 will sell a lot of copies (already has), and bad because no game can live up to this level of hype and a lot of people who had unrealistic expectations will be disappointed. I don't see GW2 faceplanting like AoC/WAR/Aion/SWTOR, though, since it's not actually a bad game. :)

Originally posted by Purgatus

You know, every article I read, on every creditable site I visit, has had nothing but glowing recommendations for this game. I have not seen that kind of feedback for any game thus far. Is it really hype if so many enjoy it?

You must not read much.  Pretty much every AAA title in the last 4 years gets glowing recommendations until a few weeks after launch.  Go look at some of the prerelease previews for games like Aion,  Rift, etc

Originally posted by BigRock411

The main question i want to pose to everyone here, seeing how opinion is overhelmingly positive that this is going to be the next major game....what about GW2 and the lead up to launch has been different to other games that had just as much positive pre-launch support?

It's very simple really. Anet promised various features, got people interested in their idea of an MMO. Then the beta weekends started and everyone who played the game found out that everything promised was there (up to a certain degree of course, some people had extremely higher expectations, but they are all there). Other games never delivered what they promised. So this is the difference, GW2 promised AND delivered what it promised. Those who didn't like the beta were probably expecting something different, either closer to their own favorite MMO or something totally different, something that the game isn't and will never be.

Originally posted by minttunator

Originally posted by BigRock411

The main question i want to pose to everyone here, seeing how opinion is overhelmingly positive that this is going to be the next major game....what about GW2 and the lead up to launch has been different to other games that had just as much positive pre-launch support?

We can look back through the years and see the very same type of overwhelmimg positive opinion for a lot of games prior to launch, games that include AOC/WAR/AION/RIFT/SWTOR theres a lot more but those where the major ones i remember.  Nothing bad was to be said about the listed games, they all were going to be different, ground breaking, had nothing but stellar beta feedback (and when there wasnt stellar beta feedback anything negative was flamed to dust).

I see a lot of similairities with this launch and those others, mainly the high expectations that always seem to be true prior to launch but seem to be just a veil of perfection several weeks later.

I wouldn't say all those games you mentioned had as much positive pre-launch support, at least not on the players' side. The main difference, in my opinion, is that while, for example, EA spent a metric sh*tton of money to advertise SWTOR, most of the GW2 hype is player-generated. Sure, all the major releases have their share of fanbois, but I can honestly say that I have never in my 10+ years of MMO gaming seen the amount of player-generated hype this game has. 

This is both a good and a bad thing - good because GW2 will sell a lot of copies (already has), and bad because no game can live up to this level of hype and a lot of people who had unrealistic expectations will be disappointed. I don't see GW2 faceplanting like AoC/WAR/Aion/SWTOR, though, since it's not actually a bad game. :)

  So funny, SWTOR had a hell of a lot of support, in fact i think all of those games did. I mean it;s not like SWTOR had problems selling initial boxes.  hmm roughly 2 million of them.  I think all those games problems are/were retention

 The proof will be in the pudding when Guild Wars 2 tries to sell it's second box and how many buy it. Until then it may be hype.

  I will add i have bought the game.

Nothing is different (in therms of hype and retainability). People will flock to the game, intially, but as months goes past the game will dwindle down to maybe 1/5 of what is started be. Some people will say this is normal but they either dont know or dont remember that MMORPGs used to actually grow in numbers rather than the fall which we are seeing now.

The reason is simple. The model of MMORPGs have changed. From being a robust, long therm experience, it has turned into short therm profits and then move on to the next MMORPG for another short therm profit.